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What cavlary unit would you say is better for a flanked attack, a light cavalry to get in there quickly, or a heavy cavalry to mow them down as soon as a gap appears?
Also what unit would you use to sieze an enemys wall in a siege, a spear unit, light infantry or heave infantry, or a mixture of 1 or 2 or even 3 of the above?:tomato2:
Please post here, i would like to here you combinations and battle strategies
For taking walls, always use heavy infantry. The defenders get a hefty combat boost when fighting on walls so you need to use something considerably heavier than the defending unit and which won't rout easily. Spears are at a disadvantage when fighting other infantry so should be saved for cutting down the cavalry once you breach the walls. I find light infantry to be a liability during assaults as they will take so many casualties from the towers and on the walls and they are susceptible to chain-routs, though they are handy for soaking up the enemy arrows which would otherwise be spent on your expensive heavy infantry.
As for your other question, I generally prefer lighter cavalry for flanking due to their greater mobility, although I suppose it depends on how quickly you need them there. I tend to use heavy knights for frontal attacks as then they get their full formed-charge bonus and will crush pretty much anything except heavy spearmen.
Good post. Agree lots with bolded text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Bloody Infantry
I agree. If your infantry line is already engaged then pretty much any weight of cavalry will do for smashing into their behinds in a hammer and anvil action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Bloody Infantry
If you're sending out a flanking force early to cause casualties before the lines meet, then medium cavalry like Mailed Knights are probably your best bet. They have more speed than barded horses but still have heavy lance charges.
I'm playing as Denmark at the moment and I'm really missing my beloved Mailed Knights. I'm finding Huscarls are next to useless and Feudal Knights have always been a little bit too slow to react. I do love the light cavalry Scouts though: light lances and shields plus axes make them a poor man's Stradiots.
I love fast light cavalry, but not all light cavalry is fast. I'd say stick to lance bearing heavy cavalry for your basic flanking attacks, the more damage they do on impact the more likely the opponent is to rout.
For taking the walls use dismounted feudal (or chivalric) knights, or whichever infantry unit has the highest morale, defense, and a shield. Spearmen usually are a liability in fighting other infantry, only good for holding the line.
:egypt:
I would say it is the speed that is important, but obviously the heavier the cavalry you can use of the same speed the better. I am thinking of a situation in which my infantry are at a disadvantage, and likely to be rapidly overrun if I don't hit the flanks fast. If things are more even and the infantry can hold for a while then heavier cavalry are better for delivering a crushing blow and winning the battle with minimal losses. For me, mailed knights are pretty much the ideal mix of speed and power for most situations.
Agreed, although I would make an exception for the Welsh in the Britannia campaign; I found their Merionydd spearmen a match for anything the English could throw at me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
I tried out your assault theory in reverse and i got pure pwned, i lost 500 spears fighting archers on that wall, then i used heavy infantry to a better effect, but which unit would you use to get the ladders up in the first place? I tend to use a light infantry to get them up, then post them infront of the gate as my ram destroys it, the light infantry can cause carnage in all the confusion.
I also sent some light cavalry to the gate to capture the main base, when the enemy began to sprint back my heavy cavalry took out almost 200 spearmen by slashing at their backs :smash:
I usually dont have light cav in an army, if they are there most likely it was a free unit for a mission or the like. Having a unit that is only designed to go fast
and chase stuff isnt really what Im looking for. I suppose its the type of armies you build. I usually build heavy infantry or heavy missle so the cavs ill have will be heavy always (mailed at least) and few in number (1-3 max). Also when I send cav I do not expect any to return. (fire and forget) This is why my fav cav is probably a cheap merc unit, they can chase the archers into skirmish just as easy and when they rout after you send them on a round about attack to a treb or something, you will feel no loss. As I said b4, in mtw2 any cav army I make, I expect for them to A) all die and B) to cause an equal or greater loss to the enemy.
For wall sieges usually a heavy infantry for the 1st up the wall, after that I send militias or cheap subs. Militia is very useful for being the 1st wave... put a town militia on loose formation and send it running right in front of a ram for example... they will absorb most of the tower and arrow fire allowing the ram to make it there.
If you only have militia or early units to siege with then make sure to build alot
of ladders and towers to spread your attack out along the walls. The wall defense bonus gets lost quick when the unit is surrounded.
I would usually have a light cavalry unit as a reserve to hunt down enemy routs, or to draw attention away from infantry, they die easily, but that is what they are designed for, that and hunting horse archers. I also use heavy infantry and cavalry, but that is only to assure you have an advantage or the enemy has no advantage. Take cavalry for example. If a cavalry unit decides to charge head on a heavy unit, they will take more losses than a simple charge on a light infantry unit, also a general can easily rally routing heavy infantry as they are slowed down by their armour, and they are more scepticle to rejoin the battle or fight to the death.
For cavalry I think that the best thing is to charge with your light horses at the flank of the enemy and then use your heavier ones to attack them from behind.
Light cavalry will most probably take some heavy losses but they are usually cheaper and easier to retrain than heavier ones. Some people might desagree but I think that light mail upgrade for hobilars/ border horses make them last a while longer while your heavy cavalry charge from behind and annihilate/rout those Heavy Swordmen bastards, even though they have a strong defence, they are usually no match for a well organized attack.
If by some insane reason you have to charge an enemy spearmen unit, charge first with your light cavalry in column formation and then use any heavy cavalry to flank/rear them in line formation.
That tactic always work well for me even when outnumbered.
For some strange reason, enemy troops don't like cavalry charging against them...:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Its really annoying with the Englisg Campaign, the enemy always has atleast 1 unit of spearmen ready to destroy my cavalry, so i always flank them, or force them to rout or surrender (capture)
Ok, i just got pure owned on normal by Scotland, i was fighting in a wood, i could see a damn thing, i just charged perhaps 500 spearmen into 300 light infantry, they were instantly flanked by light cavalry, then butchered in their attempts to rout, then my cavalry unit perhaps 400 strong rode into a steel wall of spearmen, then routed, i was expecting to win, but with the trees i couldnt see a damn thing, anybody got any decent tactics of how to win a woodland battle?
The Scots have excellent light cavalry in the Border Horse and by thier light infantry do you mean Highlanders and Noblemen? Both will quickly chop militia into shreds and I think they both get a bonus in the woods. And, charging into spearmen in the woods has usually failed for me unless they are conquistadors against Aztecs and friends. So, Sir Insane, you just had a wonderful tutorial on what doesn't work well. Congratulations. It took me months to figure this stuff out because I am so old and slow. The English need to use their yoeman longbowmen. At least you don't have to worry much about the Scots' pikes because unless you have modded them they are worse than peasants. (I also truly hate fighting in the woods but the jungle is even worse!)
I normally use light calvary for harassing the enemy.
I found that quite often, the enemy will try to rush out it's archers a good distance away from their infantry-line.. this is where light cav shines, to rush their archers so they aren't able to shoot (especially those f---ing annoying crossbowmen with pavise - ie. Milan, HRE, Venice)
It disturbs their formations and all that. light calvary also tends to get the f--k out of there a lot faster than Heavy Cav.. so this tactic can be repeated.
Knights are not very good unless you want to ride around and then come at the enemy from behind, or try to enclose their enemy's general . They are dreadful for hit and run tactics because they have a tendancy to keep on fighting, which usually means they get wiped out.
i guess it all depends on ur fighting style, but i tend to prefer an army of mostly Spear, halberd, pike units,, with a few units of cheap archers and expensive (esp if i can get melee capable archers) - like maybe 4 units of missle. And then heavy cavalry. I am careful to deploy my 'line' in accordance with , run...stop, engage spearwall and place on Defensive mode. Then while the enemy is engaging my infantry.. my cheap archers will lure their cav or random next units away (possibly) while the expensive ones stick close to spearmen or even engage in the back ranks.
When the timing is right, i take my heavy cavalry from where ever i've hidden them or placed and ride around and engage their infantry right in the centre from behind, splitting them into dis-array. Usually this results in all their line routing with the exception of DFK's or watever other high-morale units blinking RED - ie. fighting to the death.
I used to make the mistake of thinking that light cavalry were basically pointless and you were better just paying that bit more for the Knights. Now I realise how stupid I was.
I've turned into a real light cavalry fan. All those Milanse armies of Xbows that used to give be nightmares are now n00B pwned by my light cavalry. Admittedly, these have usually been Alan Mercenaries since I only started using light cav since my Byzantine and now Turkish campaign. I have started using Sipahi lancers to function as light cav though.
Weapon type is just as important a factor as unit speed when it comes to cavalry in my opinion. If you have lance armed cavalry, these are true heavy cavalry, and can charge armies head on. They are however less useful for flanking since they take time to form up to make an effective charge. They are even less useful for taking out enemy missiles, since they tend to raise their lances and ruin their charge once the enemy starts running away.
Light cavalry on the other hand can be at the enemies flanks and launching effective charges within seconds. And God help any missile unit that tries to reload in front of his main line.
From experience I've learned that light cavalry and heavy cavalry have very seperate roles in M2TW.
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For the besieging walls question, use mainly heavy infantry. 'Good Morale' is an essential trait for any unit going onto the defenders walls. Never use spearmen, since they have bad enough penalties against infantry withouth adding the wall combat factors on top of that.
If the enemy are being stubborn and defending the walls with their own heavy infantry, use units with the AP ability.
Try not to use 2-handed units though, since they depend heavily on a charge bonus which they don't get on the walls.
A unit of light infantry or two can be useful if their are gaps in the enemies defences on the walls, just find a space and then rush them through the gateway to let your troops pour in.
Its important not to try to take the settlement by winning on the walls, just assaults the walls to distract missile file, weaken the enemy on the ground, and buy the rest of your forces enough time to win the main fight on the ground. Thats why 'Good Morale' units are so important, they usually stay long enough for this to be achieved.
What would you reckon are the differences between towers and ladders??? i find ladders better as towers always burn down and ladders can get the archers of the walls fairly quickly. Also even when a siege tower is up, they take a while to get the men onto the walls. The only advantage i can see is that they can put a burst of men onto the walls when the step is first dropped. But yet again, towers can be burned when they are up, but the ladders are up they are up constantly unless an infantry unit destroys them.
Also, what would you prefur to do, breach a wall or siege the walls with infantry. I personally prefur to breach, but i can never do it because i get bored after making it that far
Ladder crews can run, and ladders can be respositioned after you've used them once. If I have to take on one enemy company head on with one of my own company, that's a good use of a siege tower, but that's rare. Most of the time I would rather have my ladder men running around getting onto the walls unopposed or surrounding one enemy company with two of my own.
Plus you can get 4 ladders for the price of one siege tower.
Usually though you don't use ladders to actually take a settlement, just to help rams take it. Siege towers, to their credit, can deliver enough men to the walls quickly enough to take a city on their own, without rams.
Oh, and for a citadel or fortress, always ladders. You can take the ladders from the first ring back down and use them on the second and third ring. Getting a siege tower to the second ring requires using artillery to knock down the walls, and if you have artillery what good are the siege towers?
Oh, and about your Scotland loss in the woods, most of the Scottish troops have that trait where they fight better in woods or snow I believe. Might've had an effect there.
:egypt:
Yes... but i usually just use the doors on either end of the citadel, rather than using ladders, and you can surround the archers with two groups of infantry, my major tactic is to use one group of infantry to to take the main plaza, while a group of light cavalry kills them as they retreat to take the city
When fighting in the middle of woods, place your troops so that they are all hidden by the trees and not on the enemy's way. Then place your general next to a border or very far from enemy and wait for them to come after your general. Keep your troops ready and tell your archers to use flaming arrows and fire only at orders.
When your troops face the enemy army's backs make all your cavalry charge the enemy general, tell your archers to fire at will and concentrate fire on every "wavering" unit.
Order your all your infantry to attack at the nearest troop(not the enemy general, let your cavalry handle then), and watch out for the enemy's morale. When you see any unit wavering, make all your archers fire at them even if your infantry is already on the middle of the battle. Usually one volley will be enough to make those cowards remember they have a business meeting somewhere else.:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
When the enemy stop moving a begins fighting your men, it good to have your general near them so that, if you have high chivalry, they stand their ground or if the opposite, inspire fear on the enemy's hearts.
By the time your cavalry murder their leader, their units will begin to rout, then forget those bodyguards and make your cavalry hit every single unit who is wavering.
Make sure you are not near your computer, because this is surely going to spit blood everywhere on room. :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Works even better when outnumbered! Just prepare to get several experience points (My record was seven with Newbie Prince Rufus). :smash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane834
Good thing to remember is that if your tower is being attacked it is drawing the fire away from your other siege units allowing your ladder or ram to advance unopposed, which is why I try to to build as many ladders/towers as I can b4
the attack.
Also, as others have said... the objective is not the walls but the center of the town or w/e u attack soo.. try to breach and rush... 1/2 the time if you have cav they will make it to the objective b4 the defenders even clear off the walls all the way
ATPG's Combat Training Seminar, volume one.
Open field warfare:
Basic principles: If the opposing army has only one general, it may be a good idea to try to target that general at any cost. Formulate your entire strategy on taking out the captain or general, as the enemy army will crumble under lack of leadership.
Exceptions: If the enemy general is well protected (large bodyguard fit for a King, large amounts of heavy cavalry at the flanks) then do not attempt this strategy unless you are either a genius or a fool, and you would like to prove me wrong or be cut to pieces.
Basic principles: Infantry loves to hold the high ground. Downhill charges are among the most devastating maneuvers known to Medieval man, even when executed by poor infantry. The better the unit, the more impossible to deflect.
Exceptions: Poor infantry will not last long against supreme infantry, and when in melee, even from a position of being uphill, they rout easily from any flanking cavalry. Especially when that cavalry can manage to charge downhill into the backs of those in combat already. Avoid flanking cavalry on hills!
Basic principles: A long line of infantry is better than compact infantry, for flanking purposes.
Exceptions: Very good opposing infantry will make your center rout, and then the battle swings in their favour. Heavy cavalry can EASILY smash spread out troops. To absorb cavalry charges, position your troops DEEP rather than spread. To absorb heavy infantry for extended periods, do the same, and set to guard mode. Especially when defending a settlement's gate.
Basic principles: In this period of history, the heavy cavalry charge rules as the supreme method of winning a battle outright. The sheer amount of total devastation when practiced en masse is enough to swing the morale and numbers battle in your favor. Even more effective when attacking flanks, but still good when charging the enemy head on.
Exceptions: If the enemy has a mostly horse archer army, and the horse archers are good, and they also have spearmen... they can really rattle you. You could win in the end, but you have to pin the horse archers against the side of the map or inside of a settlement. They will rain death upon you and frequently return from being routed. Spread out your formations and encircle each unit or cluster of units to prevent hit and run maneuvers. Use whatever bogus infantry you have as meat shields.
Basic principles: Light cavalry and horse archers make excellent flanking units, and supreme routing unit destroyers. Use these even more effectively against infantry or any other unit that is already engaged in melee. They will be facing away from you and cannot take advantage of your poor armour. As an added bonus, if the enemy general escapes to rout, these are the only units capable of taking him down before he leaves the battlefield!
Exceptions: If the enemy has large amounts of heavy cavalry, you can be disappointed by such maneuvers. Do not engage unless their heavy cavalry is busy fighting something else.
Basic principles: Heavier infantry can absorb more punishment, longer than any other unit. Use for critical situations like holding a line from cavalry charges, taking walls, and fighting in the city streets and in the city center. These units are the ultimate Seige Tower unit.
Exceptions: These units cannot win unless they encircle horse archers, light cavalry, or other maneuverable units. And in the meantime, you will slowly bleed to death. Still vulnerable to flanking maneuvers and especially projectiles' "rain of death".
Basic principles: light infantry and archers make good flanking units. More maneuverable than heavy infantry, can engage those already fighting and wear them down from the flank or rear. The faster and the higher the attack rating, the better. Archer fire is more effective when angled in a direction that cannot be blocked by shields, from the flank, or from the rear, or from the sword-bearing side. These units are also great Ladder Units, as ladder units are toast in melee anyway, and the sole purpose of ladders is to either distract or take undefended walls.
Exceptions: Some more enterprising and creative generals may attempt different open field formations which involve two great masses of heavy flanking units, defensive spearmen in the center, and skirmishing units behind them to take advantage of the two-flank fighting. For armies with many, many archers, you can wear down the enemy with distracting general and cavalry/heavy infantry on the flanks, and worthless units in the middle defending your archers, who can rain death upon the enemy. However, if the enemy does a heavy charge into your soft and exposed center, you will gain a slight advantage by attacking them all from the flank and rear, but at the cost of your entire center line and archer compliment. Have them retreat to avoid such a fate. Don't get too risky with your troops unless you have no choice or are feeling daring or creative.
Basic principles: Spearmen are the most common and least versatile unit in the game. They fail against most kinds of heavier infantry, can be taken out with projectiles, generals, artillery, elephants, and even heavy and light cavalry flanking maneuvers! They are nothing more than meat shields, and will die en masse if used improperly.
Exceptions: Mercenary spearmen are good, disposable meat shields, and last longer in combat than militia spearmen and are just as good in most circumstances as your more advanced spear units. Their exorbitant cost also allows you the choice to be more careless with thier deaths. They cost you nothing once they are dead, and make excellent suicide squads. Good for armies in enemy territory who need reinforcement, great meat for the seige assault grinder (don't send in your own citizens who will gain experience from fighting first, let the entry-level mercenaries earn their paycheck or die trying). Also, spearmen can be rather devastating when placed in deep formation, especially in guard mode. In this mode, they last longer against prolonged melee, and make supreme city street defenders and defenders against heavy cavalry frontal charges, and they can be turned slightly to face away from the flanks to provide cover from flanking maneuvers. When used properly, spears can neutralize the advantage of cavalry. When used improperly, they are the most worthless unit in the game, little more effective than bands of peasants.
Basic principles: Peasants and pilgrims are nearly useless!
Exceptions: When commanded by Askthepizzaguy, or other great generals, these units can take over the entire world in just 28 short turns, and form the main line in most blitzkrieg armies until the mercenaries show up. They can distract while mercenary cavalry and generals pound the enemy to oblivion, and are the cheapest and most disposable "anvils" in the hammer and anvil combo. Arise peasantry, and fight with honour and courage! Let the cavalry do the butchering!!! Don't try this past turn 50 or so.
Other Exceptions: They can be used to make archers run away, or can fight archers to prevent them from raining death on your good troops. These units are fair enough wall defenders, especially when used en masse. Good defensive placeholders for real armies. I've personally beaten massive stacks of very good troops with a half stack of peasants and a castle to defend. They also make good distracting units for taking walls.... good units attack the center, and these worthless troops take ladders and fight from the flanks to wear down and divide the enemy. They make great arrow fodder, and can absorb cavalry charges so that your good spearmen don't have to take the hammer blow, and can then rush ahead and take down the horses at full strength and morale. In a pinch, these fools can be used to slowly wear down the enemy's general bodyguard at the town center. Even one bodyguard horseman is easily worth more than 30 peasants. So, your peasants will suffer, but your experienced and more valuable units don't need to die at the hands of superior heavy cavalry in town center melee. That is, if you care nothing for their lives. If you trade 3 units of peasants for one general, that's not a bad deal!
Hint: These make excellent ram units.
Basic Principles: Elephants; Supreme open field slayers of entire armies. But you won't have any of these to play with, chances are. Sucks to be you!
Exceptions: These poor fools rout when faced with artillery fire, and heavy flaming arrow rain will make them die. Also, javelin throwers are supreme cheap and maneuverable elephant slayers. Remember Rome Total War? The javelin is more effective than an arrow at killing these beasts. That's kind of what they were made for, slaying large animals.
Basic Principles: Artillery are fairly toast on the open field, as the enemy will stop at nothing to make sure they die first. You can get off a good shot or two, but you will eventually die.
Exceptions: Enterprising generals might use a neat combination of massive cavalry armies, and artillery surrounded by heavy spears to annihilate the enemy with few losses!
The heavy cavalry flank and destroy all in their path, and remain around the ring of fire (artillery in the center, spears pointing out) to gain protection. Massive amounts of heavy infantry or cavalry will rout.
Pros: Good anti-Mongol tactic! Cons: Your excellent mostly cavalry armies move slowly due to artillery.
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Seige Warfare:
Basic principles: The Ram: Single most important early era weapon to combat walls. Build at least one every time, but try to have at least one reserve ram. Ram units: Peasants, Pilgrims, and other completely worthless cannon fodder.
Exceptions: you have a ballista or preferably a catapult or better, these become worthless. Build ladders or seige towers instead. Rams can be used en masse as an interesting shield against sallying cavalry. Since the enemy cannot simply go through rams, they must go around. 6 rams can be used as a shield against large cavalry charges, much like stakes, but without the killing.
Basic Principles: The Ladder: Cheapest seige equipment available. Rush ahead of your main army with cavalry, and build several ladders and a ram. But always begin with the ladder, so you can autoresolve the city, if you feel like doing so. You can use ladders to distract the enemy or to put troops on undefended walls, also can be paired with flanking cavalry for a mini-seige tactic: undefended gates far away from the Main Assault Force can be taken with a simple unit of peasants, a ladder, and a bunch of cavalry. Use this to take the city center, wipe out their general, and otherwise bring death and destruction.
Exceptions: Don't really use these when trying to take defended walls. You are asking your troops to march single file into the enemy's spearpoints, a futile or otherwise wasteful tactic.
Basic Principles: The Seige Tower: Bwahaha! Easily the better choice when assaulting defended walls, unless you have catapults or better to annihilate the enemy where they stand. Build more than one of these unless you're just planning to use it to draw enemy arrow fire. Susceptible to flames, you will need many of them. But once you have a couple on the enemy's walls, the walls are basically useless. Any unit fighting the enemy on the walls will be fighting on nearly even terms, as they have the height advantage from exiting the seige tower and the local numbers advantage. These can also be used as arrow shields to defend your advancing seige army and cavalry while the ram does it's work. Then abandon the seige tower and rush towards the city center! This diversionary tactic works very well against an enemy formation of lots of troops on the walls, few on the ground. You can take the city center and hold it for three minutes, or slay the general and annihilate their army as they chain rout towards the city center!
Exceptions: If you have good artillery, these are basically useless, but I can't think of a single case where these would be actually detrimental to your cause. They are a giant wall of wood and metal to protect you and a means of taking defended and undefended walls. Where's the down side? Their only weak point is being able to be burned, and during heavy rain, that's unlikely. And if you have enough of them, it doesn't matter if a few go down. Build these whenever it is prudent.
Basic Principles: Elephants: These work just like rams, and are great for blasting through the city center and running amok inside the city.
Exceptions: Heavy arrow fire from the walls make these things useless, even detrimental to your army. If they run amok towards your heavy infantry, you might as well retreat from the battle and accept your loss. Artillery fire can also make them run amok, so ballista and catapults, cannons, and other things properly aimed at the gate can cause them to instantly rout towards you. The same is true for bridge battles. Don't lead with your elephants unless you want all your troops to die, unless they have no anti-elephant tactic.
Basic Principles: Artillery: Walls? What walls?
Only a Fortress or Citadel can possibly survive being breached by good artillery, but even then, if you remembered to bring more than one... your castle is as good as done for.
Exceptions:
If the enemy sallies effectively, these things are worthless. Thus, these things are good at forcing a sally.
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Special tactical situations:
Bridge assault:
Long range archers, artillery, heavy infantry and heavy cavalry will make this kind of battle an easy one! The best defense is pretty much the same. Lots of long range archers, artillery, cavalry, and spearpoints.
If you lack some of these, try the following:
Massive cavalry rush: Immediately charge the enemy before the AI can properly deploy against this tactic. Bunched up horses will push through even the most stubborn line. Works also in seige situations. But not against capable human opponents.
Rain of Death: Put your best defender up front and move halfway across the bridge, blocking all access to your archers. Rain death upon them!
Suicide squads: Bring along 3 stacks of high morale units. Strike one stack per battle, and wear down the enemy in a single turn. You will lose lots of men, but you can penetrate even the most solid bridge defense, because they will slowly lose troops, and without another turn to bring reinforcements, they will finally fail. No bridge defense can withstand more than 3 stacks. So if you're a blitzer in a human V human battle, and you have massive spammed infantry, you can break their defense with phyrric victories. But I still would attempt to bring some archers, artillery, or heavy cavalry to mop up the mess.
Bridge defense:
Your defensive advantage is nullified if the enemy can cross the bridge in most examples, unless you also have a nice set of hills to defend. So the objective here is to hold the bridge and slay the enemy en masse.
Let the enemy cross, but rain death upon them with artillery, arrows, javelins, anything you can toss at them. Prevent them from exiting the bridge with Deep formations of heavy infantry or spears, depending on if it is infantry or cavalry crossing. defending against elephants requires projectiles and distance, you will not hold elephants with infantry. You can slow them down with cannon fodder while the elephants are attempting to cross the bridge, taking advantage of their lack of mobility.
For a good bridge defense, you need lots of good troops, and reinforcements with night fighter ability, to nullify the suicide squad tactic and night assaults. The more flaming arrows, artillery, and heavy infantry, the better.
Ambushes:
You've managed to surprise the enemy! Good!
Now, take advantage of his disorder. You need to strike the enemy general, who is exposed, immediately, or try to take out his spread out units before he can reinforce them. Use LOTS OF HEAVY AND LIGHT CAVALRY. Infantry is fairly worthless, as are archers, as they take too long and cannot take advantage of the surprise.
Forest/snow/desert battles:
Any units with forest, snow, or desert combat bonuses here are useful. Infantry is very important in the forest, as cavalry units are too easily spooked by hidden troops, and they move slowly in thick wood. Archers and artillery are mostly useless, so don't bother. More infantry, more infantry, more infantry. Some flanking heavy cavalry is useful. Horse archers are totally worthless except to scout for any hidden troops, but again they spook too easily. If you have elephants, these are good for destroying tight infantry formations.
Here ends the lesson. I hope you have learned something new from this refresher course on the basics of combat. For more advanced techniques or for unusual situations or specific battle hints, do not hesitate to ask, and I will respond publicly or privately to any tactical question.
Dismissed!
-Drill Master ATPG
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Addendum:
Ultimate light cavalry!
Spam as much light cavalry at the beginning of your campaign as possible, and fight all the rebels and infantry you can. Make them rout, and continue to build experience until you have your gold chevrons. Then retrain these units in places with armourers' workshops.
Now you have Fast, High Morale, Armoured Horsemen of Doom!
Any faction with decent starting light cavalry, or horse archers, will enjoy marching their fast, light, well experienced and armoured horsemen of doom all over the map, and reinforcing them is a cinch! Just strike any nearby wooden castle or better and retrain more!
ATPG's note on the value of fast light cavalry is very insightfull. After several Scottish campaigns I have learned how to rely on Border Horse and Bodyguards in the early going and then Hospitalers for the later period. Border Horse even have a decent attack value and once they have some experience (even just one chevron) are extremely effective against any unit except bodyguards if used properly. They can even help to destroy the AI's bodyguards units if you attack the AI bodyguard with some heavy cavalry or pin them with some infantry. Light cavalry makes the AI's archers just about totally useless - even pavaise crossbowmen. The best part about the Border Horse is that with a swordsmith upgrade and silver or gold chevrons they remain effective to deal with the Mongols and Timurids. The AI is now so aggressive that usually their archers advance and when my Border Horse charge they never even get off a first volley before they are hit and route or are killed before the spears can arrive. The fast cavalry also seems to be able to disengage quicker and more reliably than the heavier noble cavalry. I like to have at least 3 of these in an army and pair 2 on one wing and the other on the opposite wing with my general. If you double time them they can get behind the enemy and charge into their rear just as the enemy is hitting your front line. Sometimes they need to reform again but rarely do they need a third charge before the whole army routes. The only drawback with them is that they require very close supervision as do Jinetes. The best part of the Border Horse is the low recruitment and maintenance costs, which factors endear them to any true Scot or Welshman.
If you allow your light horsemen to sit and be defeated in melee, you aren't using them properly. They definitley require a bit of babysitting, as Old Geezer suggests. Unless they are triple gold chevron, armoured, and have weapon upgrades, I wouldn't let them battle it out with heavy cavalry.
These guys can be used as hit and run cavalry as opposed to heavy lance/melee to death cavalry. Just charge, run away, charge, run away. They are light and maneuverable. Flank and Flank.
Use them in pairs, attack one side of the enemy, attack the other side while the other one retreats, and attack again while the second one retreats.
Instead of hammer and anvil, it's the hammer and hammer tactic. Also effective with heavy cavalry, but they don't turn and escape as quickly and they mostly use formed charges which are harder to pull off.
When up to gold chevron, they can make excellent general hunters. Make them run all around to the back of the enemy army, engage the front with melee troops, and begin to make them chain rout with light cavalry to the rear attacks. This will draw out the general, so use about 3 or 4 light cavalry gold chevron units and surround n' pound him to death while his army loses all their morale. You can at least pin the general while your general and heavy cavalry finishes off the enemy army wholesale. You can also use these light horses to slay the general when he finally routs, as mentioned previously.
Kill all the mounted routers with your light horse, and all the infantry routers with your generals and heavy cavalry.
Once you have gold chevron light cavalry armies, begin training your heavy lances to get gold. Unlike general's bodyguards, these units are IMMORTAL and if you keep them retrained, are larger and more effective in combat than general's bodyguards. Can almost be left alone in a sea of spears, as they seem to be invincible to all but the most determined spearmen, and artillery fire.
Light cavalry seige tactic:
Usually the enemy doesn't have cavalry waiting at home, save for the general. But sometimes they do have heavy cavalry. Lay seige with a bunch of light cavalry and a general.
The enemy will sally. Retreat to the corner of the map and wait for them to charge after you.
lead them on a wild chase, wearing out their infantry. Use your light horse spread out so you can pick off entire bands of stragglers. Let the enemy general chase your light horse and draw him away from his troops, or let his troops get far, far away from the city center. Now, send a unit of light cavalry to take the city center and hold it for 3 minutes. During which time the enemy MUST retreat to the city center.
To Provoke them into sallying ALL their troops, sneak in a unit of light horse and take the city center, then run away. All the AI troops will then sally to kill you.
While the enemy is in full retreat, dismantle any infantry with your cavalry. The general will most likely attempt to rush to the city center, leaving his entire army general-less and defenseless.
Use your own general and mop up the mess.
If you can manage to hold the city for 3 minutes, good. If not, you've effectively destroyed everything but the general. You can attack his general with yours and your light cavalry, but alternatively you can just wait for the battle to be over or make all your units "rout" using the white flag button. Be sure to do this near the edge of the map so they don't rout towards the city center. Hire any mercenary infantry and use a ram to open the gates, then slay the enemy general with few, if any, losses to your general and 4 light horse army.
Destroy massive garrisons! Plunder, loot, and pillage! Women, ale, men if that tickles your fancy. The settlement is yours, and you took it with a tiny, tiny quarter stack of cavalry. Bravo!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=100126
Click the link for a battle replay which shows this tactic in action!
Perhaps we need to stop discussing how to use light cavalry effectively or CA may decide to "nerf" them in some future patch or expansion.
One drawback which I am finding is that my swordsmen are not gaining as much experience as they usually do because I have been relying on Border Horse and pike militia (since removing their secondary "weapon" of rubber knives). Taking losses doesn't concern me much because they can be retrained so cheaply at any castle.
I just fought a Portugese army with some jinetes and were surprised how well the border horse closed and thrashed the jinetes with minimal losses. The AI tries to throw the javelins but doesn't have time to do so before the charge takes effect and kills about half of the jinetes on impact. It doesn't work well if the enemy has 3 jinetes to your one border horse (or alan cavalry) because the unengaged jinetes will kll a lot of border horse in a couple of volleys.
A very interesting essay, ATPG, i might try a few of them out
= Don't! :laugh4:Quote:
anybody got any decent tactics of how to win a woodland battle?
I always like to have a mix although i tend to have a higher proportion of heavies. Light cavalry are generally just ace for sneaking round the side or making surprise charges on ranged units/routers/artillery/light infantry/cavalry already engaged....basically anything! Although admittedly if they get charged by anything or get stuck in melee than they get mashed:sweatdrop:
On beseiging a moderately defended city (balanced army, sans artillery):
equipment needed: 2 rams, 2 siege towers, 2 ladders
use your most expendable units as ram pushers
decent heavy infantry on towers (or use mercs)
ladder A- light ap infantry or med infantry--ladder B- light spears or melee capable archers (need a decently fast moving unit for this)
Opening; send siege towers @ the best defenders on the walls, ladder A goes either @ the archers OR in support of a tower on the outside flank
ladder B- outside edge of the wall you are assaulting, line up your heavy cavalry, gen, and 1 or 2 light cav and/or HA's near that ladder- send ladder B at a run toward the undefended side gate, cav at a walk (note, don't line up your ladder B crew as close to the side gate as you can, you DON'T want the enemy to defend that gate, if you line up around the corner from your main force, you'll get defenders on that wall)
both rams toward front gate (both traveling in that direction to dissipate arrow fire, reducing the chances of equipment getting burned up)
Mid game;
Objective on the front walls is tieing up the defenders so the cavalry can get in to do the dirty work. Send the cav and the wall taker from ladder B directly to the town square (which type depends on the unit/s at the square) kill the defenders, use light cav feints to draw them out of the square, general makes a good square taker. light cav charges anyone retreating from the walls, if wall retreating units are in good order, tower assault inf or nearby fresh inf that entered the front gate after its capture should be pinning for the light cav. ladder B unit should be holding the square while cavalry and gate infantry kill any remaining defenders (added bonus if this is a unit of archers)
End game: celebrate your victory, this siege was won in the mid-game.
this tactic is designed to eliminate the "slugfest at the town square" that causes signifigant casualties among your army, in fact, I'd say that and the approach cause the majority. Since you can't really avoid the casualties during the approach, eliminating the "last stand slugfest" is imperative if you wish to keep your army effective on a long campaign, especially if the mod you use has an Area of Recruitment (AoR) feature (in fact AoR is what motivated me to try this tactic...got sick of constantly sending troops home to retrain or waiting for new recruits from home to catch up)
just my $.02
In the Americas: New Spain i found that Spanish Dragoons are simply too imba!
/Discuss
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