The Reformation is at Hand

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/03/africa/youth.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI

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Originally Posted by article

BAGHDAD: After almost five years of war, many young Iraqis, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.

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The Reformation is at hand! Join together brothers and rejoice!

No, srsly, 'bout damn time. If the (predominately Muslim) Middle East wants to join the post-Renaissance world I welcome them. The fire that burns in extremists will scorch the earth leaving naught but ashes in its wake. While I doubt there was any intent or plan to bring about this change (hell, Obama, you want change? here it is!) it's still good to see. One thing is for sure: Three of its neighbors will fight this as much as possible.

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It is far from clear whether the shift means a wholesale turn away from religion. A tremendous piety still predominates in the private lives of young Iraqis, and religious leaders, despite the increased skepticism, still wield tremendous power. Measuring religiousness furthermore, is a tricky business in Iraq, where access to cities and towns that are far from Baghdad is limited.

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Piety is good. Skepticism and critical thinking are what I want to see. :iraq:

There are some glimpses of hope in a world dominated by religious nutjobs...

I thought the whole disillusionment with traditional religious authorities was a major contribution to the rise of more violent alternatives? The article seems more to indicate a decline in trust of clerics and politics than in faith.

When people get disgrunted they blame the authorities, and here those are the clerics I wouldn't hold my breath, the reformation will begin in Iran not Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

I thought the whole disillusionment with traditional religious authorities was a major contribution to the rise of more violent alternatives? The article seems more to indicate a decline in trust of clerics and politics than in faith.

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Yes, that's the key! Men of faith like me (as heretical as I am, re: avatar) and the Founding Fathers (yes, I'm grouping myself with that lot ~;p ) know that faith can be a very good thing. What this article implies is that people are beginning to question their religious leaders (and maybe think critically), who regardless of their faith or intentions, are still just people.

People will always exploit changes like this, just like they will with the traditional order to advance their own agendas, often violently. Europe burned for a while due to men of real and false conviction, but look at the result. This rising skepticism of previously infallible leadership combined with exposure to new ideas is a good thing, as it could hardly be much worse. (sorry for the :drama2: )

Just so everyone knows I make no pretense toward objectivity or lack of bias on this.

Frag, look at your map and think about it.

Wanna bet? One crate of beer on Iran the first signs are already there. We have beards there because a generation grew up with corruption of the Shah, and now we have a generation that grew up with beards, and a lot are more then a little bit fed-up with them.

Beards don't kill people, people kill people. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Beards don't kill people, people kill people. ~;)

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Hehehe so true

My wife is half Iranian, and her mother a full blood who fled following the rise of the Ayatollah. My mother in law is staunchly Atheist and when prompted why she always replies simply "The Ayatollahs stole god from me". A feeling I believe many many Iranians both in country and out feel.

That is true for most Iranians here as well. They are also doing exceptionally well over here, something about Iranians intelligent lot they are.