Just wondering if the new EB will have their imperial legion equipped with this armor, and lorica hamata.
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Just wondering if the new EB will have their imperial legion equipped with this armor, and lorica hamata.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Sorry dude, but are you serious? If you are, then I feel kinda sorry for you, since you are about to get your ass kicked.
Definitely,no. I can tell you that much for sure,having visited the EBII area only once and got somewhat of a light verbal lashing over Spartan hoplites.
The question of lorica segmentate (LS) appears every month or so on the EB1 forum, and the answer is always the same. EB ends at 15 AD, and LS didn't became common until half a century later. The team is aware that there are LS finds predating the end-date, but the impression is that LS was a rarity in the Augustean army, and such will not be included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemons
I understand people are getting tired of this question, but that is no reason to be derisive. Sadly, due to misrepresentation in popular history, most people think that all Roman legionaries wore LS.Quote:
Sorry dude, but are you serious? If you are, then I feel kinda sorry for you, since you are about to get your ass kicked.
You know how many problems would be solved if the EB team added a blurb about LS in into the description of all Roman Units?
Or even better, every time you enter the forum a big sign flashes repeatedly saying "The Romans didn´t use LS in EB´s timeperiod!".
You'd be amazed how many people would still manage to miss that :stupido2: . I'd prefer general Appo's suggestion, however there would still be people asking for "the segmented armour, don't know what's it called, the Romans used".Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
Ludens, thanks for your explanation!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
No need to kick anyone :smash: . It's good enough that EB fans always take the field in this recurrent issue. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by General Appo
Isnt it accepted that the Kalkriese type of lorica segmentata was in use from 20BC to about 50AD? They found the breastplate dated 9ad from Teutoberg Forest so if the legions had them then, the praetorians who were better equipped should have had them some time before.(unless of coarse the less important guys would have the nice armor first which wouldnt make any sense) So maybe a praetorian unit having it wouldnt be far fetched.
Given that at least in EB1 it's possible to have the Imperial reforms pretty early in the first century BC, I'd say it rather would be.
...what is it with people and LS, anyway ? I don't get it. :huh:
It is debatable whether LS is truly superior to chainmail, so the Praetorians wouldn't necessarily have worn it. Again, the impression is that LS was rare EB's time frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iasonis
Is that a rhetorical question? Most basic history books and almost all of popular history display Romans in LS. It is recognizable and unique, so for many people it is the quintessential Roman armour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
I don't know how rare it was, but I think a safe possibility would be to use it for artillery crews.
In truth, it's far more comfortable to wear mail if you need to keep bending over. Lorica might look flexible but it does tend to dig in to your flesh when you demand more movement than it wants to allow. And if you are doing a repetitive job like artillery loading, lorica tends to keep digging into the same spot each time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
I believe they needed to wear a scarf to keep the armor from chafing the neck
No so much the neck, but the collar bone is where it rubs. You don't notice it at first, but certainly after a few hours you find you're trying to push the scarf over the sore bits!
If you're wondering how I can say this, it's because I'm a member of a re-enactment group (the Ermine street Guard) so we tend to have first hand experience of wearing this sort of kit for 6 or 8 hours at a time. :sweatdrop:
Let me attempt a solution:
M2TW allows for multiple models per unit why not stick just couple of guys with LS?
This way its accurate and not widespread....
First archeologic evidence of the LS comes from 15 AD, I believe. Now, look at EB's ending date.
The answer for now and ever is plain no until you have very good proof of why it should be included.
9BC actually, but anyway Lorica Segmentata is ugly, and thats coming from a massive Roman fan.
What exactly is so wrong with chainmail,anyway? That's what I don't get. If anyone here knows why lorica Hamata seems to be so evil,please tell me and let me know when the exorcism is.
Seriously,though. Chainmail provided just as much,if not more,protection than the (dare I say it) Segmentata,with increased comfort and mobility. But everyone on the EB team knows that,after all.
I haven't played EB yet,but I hope you guys don't mind my :2cents: in the history department on weapons and armor.
...Then go play EB, most of the Romans wear some sort of chain main except the piss poor ones.
It is certainly true that the LS wasn't used in the EB timeframe. However, this does not mean it shoudn't be included. The LS started to appear after the Augustian reforms, in game the Augustian reforms can occur roughly hundred year to early. This means that the LS is a possibility within the EB timeframe.
I do however question it's superiority in comparison the LH. Since the Romans used very large shields and kept their formation, bodyarmor isn't so much of an issue. Besides LS is a logistic nightmare. Every smith can make and repair a LH but it takes a specialized facility to produce the LS.
The Lorica Segmentata was designed to withstand Dacian falxes, which has very little to do with the time of the Augustans. And by the way, the change from Lorica Hamata - Lorica Segmentata didn't happen over night. It took some time to adapt to it, and I think we're talking about mid 2nd century AD now.
Come on, just because the Augustians happen 100 years earlier, doesn't mean we should include stuff like that.
Historically, the Seleucids didn't conquer Nubia, but should we also just in case make an upgrade so they can ride pink flammable rhino's?
Well if the Augustian reforms can happen much earlier maybe partial adaption of the LS can happen earlier. Besides, only some of the legionaries would wear the LS. When a condition like five battles fought with Dacia is added it would be more realistic. This does require a new unit though. This would however take a unit slot which is unacceptable. The Romans have a lot of units allready. So in short, I agree with you. If only Trajanus lived a bit earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
I must say that all this talking about the LS is over the top. There are more important things. The reason most people want them in is because Romans wear them in the movies. I can understand the pain of the team.
I sincerely doubt if the appereance of LS had anything to do with the Dacians and their falxes - already because A) it was coming into use quite a bit before the Romans started having any major Dacian trouble B) they'd had to deal with the similar, but due to its all-metal build probably even choppier, Thracian rhomphaia already in the Macedonian Wars centuries earlier...
The Dacians did inspire some modifications to helmets and the limited issuing of laminate arm-guards for first-line units though.
The question is why they started using it? I doubt the Romans used it just because they could. It probably had it's advantages in the field but I think the logistical drawbacks were far greater. What I don't understand is where they got the idea from. Maybe an emperor ordered research into a new armor.
The basic idea of the laminate structure was old news - it'd already been used for limb defenses by Achaemenid Persian heavy cavalry, and the Romans probably first encountered it on Seleukid cataphracts at Magnesia. I'd be willing to bet it was sometime after that it began forming part of some gladiator classes' panoplies.
Presumably some clever fellow eventually came up with the idea of adapting the concept into a corselet, but it wasn't until the reorganisation, consolidation etc. after Augustinus' takeover that the resources for such in practice tricky and expensive R&D became available; which also explains how such an expensive and logistically finicky item could begin to be issued to the troops.
Would it be wrong to draw the following conclusion?
It would have been possible for the Romans to develop the LS earlier. However the costs associated with it are so large that it would be madness. Especially considering the benefits are only minor. Only the later emperors where willing to pay such a high price. Maybe it had to do with prestige?
In this case I completely agree that there is no place for the LS in the EB timeframe.
lorica segmentata gives me itches every time i read the word:furious3:
EDIT
here you go
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/stor...slsanswer1.jpg
ahahah wonderful! :laugh4: