Britania, with Vanilla Play Balance Mod

Trying those Blue guys, from the wet & windy NW, on H/H (VH hacks me off as it distorts the naval battles & unit attack strengths bit too much).

With the PBM, you start with no piece of the mainland, but that does have diplomatic advantage of no border with Germania.

Short Campaign, 15 provinces plus outlast or destroy Gaul. Took the Rebel town Ebucara without many casualties, though I probably messed up as it was 10 Light chariots to Enemy General which I can't replace at moment, rather than warbands. Clipping problems in edge of town trying to provoke enemy general out with arrows and slingers, to skewer with spearmen.

Got trade rights with Gauls & Germania, but Gauls are the real economic partners. Then gone for economic development. Pirate navy with 3 ships, deterred any boat building. Seems to me, when coast is clear, should try and take Tara (Hibernia), before building up an expeditionary force.

Seems to me, I need to make friends with Jullii, Senate & Germania, then patiently build until Gaul has been drawn into serious fight with the Julii. Then hit them in rear, in NW when they're stretched to get toehold on continent, then try and drive East without getting on wrong side of Julii, who hopefully will route South for richer lands like Spain.

Anyone share experience with this setup? It's seems like a slow burner with the play balance mods. Rather different from the very expansionist land grab race style campaign, as a Roman faction trying to be "first among equals".

A human Jullii player, probably likes peaceful border in north, to have freedom to concentrate in south, but may be the AI will be less astute?

Blitzkrieg will work. Gallia and Julii wont fight.

ive played a short campaign as them before, in my oppinion they quite easy and their light chariots are awesome, only thing their lacking is horsemen. only problem for me was i was takin cities real fast but egyptians still beat me! so i lost.

The majority of the balancing mods do make things a fair bit harder for the player (or the AI for that matter) to simply go on a massive blitz and destroy every last army in their path.

Your plan does sound quite good though, but, now your already bordering Germania, and they're drawing up a military plan with you in it, a friendly chat with them may not do you much good.

If they do accept an alliance, offer them a small fund each turn to stay parners with you. The AI does occasionally give it all back if you pay them a visit on another issue, so little harm will be done.

The problem with the VBM is that things on the campaign map appear to overall happen much slower. Gaul may in the end beat the Julii back into Italy rather than the Julii beating them. You may wish to send spies out to monitor the war in that region and use the time when the Gauls appears to be drawing troops from elsewhere in their empire to attack them.

Good luck ~:)

i know this is WAY off topic but does anyone know any sites with good information on battles?

Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites:
The majority of the balancing mods do make things a fair bit harder for the player (or the AI for that matter) to simply go on a massive blitz and destroy every last army in their path.

The problem with the VBM is that things on the campaign map appear to overall happen much slower. Gaul may in the end beat the Julii back into Italy rather than the Julii beating them. You may wish to send spies out to monitor the war in that region and use the time when the Gauls appears to be drawing troops from elsewhere in their empire to attack them.

The Gauls start with Sambo., Brits only have Londinium (built 300 yrs early it seems) and a town in west. The Rebs in Ebacurum fall 2nd turn.

@samety :

I can't blitz because I have to build a fleet, and a campaign army and get it on the mainland, without bankrupting myself. The only troops I can immediately retrain or recruit are basic Spear Warbands. Early turns I invested in the mines, and land clearance, and a port to improve finances. There seems little point in sending over a small force which is outclassed by the production of Alesia, never mind all the other provinces Gaul has. The pirate fleet has 3 ships, and if they're the large boats normally seen off there, then it'll take a while to defeat them.

The Gauls are quite capable of building stacks with 10 or so warbands, plus Noble cavalry, in response to invasions, their main problem is that they're suffering strategic overstretch with lots of potential enemies on many fronts, Julii, Spain, Britons & Germania.

The Briton starting forces are weighted to family chariots, 1 light archer, 1 slinger, 3 spear warbands plus the chanting Druids. Not exactly a great army for sieges, though I'm sure with bolstering the chariots could disrupt, infantry nicely in open field.

The Jullii AI is very slow to get going and take Rebel towns and a piece out of the Gauls, so if I rush a premature attack, I am quite likely to be defeated in detail, by Northern Gaul forces, at a time when they're quite wealthy. A border with Germania, also is more likely to lead to premature attack by them on me, because the Dacians (who are Germania's real target eastwards) take some time to make it over to Luvavum & Losice.

Also the Gauls are currently my only worthwhile trading partner, so once I engage in hostilities, I loose 400+dn/turn which would slow development considerably.

Seems to me, securing Tara, and developing, getting the spies over to see what's going on. If the Gauls attack Germany, or vice-versa then I can hope to bargain with one side or the other and land in rear.

Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites:
Your plan does sound quite good though, but, now your already bordering Germania, and they're drawing up a military plan with you in it, a friendly chat with them may not do you much good.

If they do accept an alliance, offer them a small fund each turn to stay parners with you. The AI does occasionally give it all back if you pay them a visit on another issue, so little harm will be done.

If that's addressed to me, I only have a sea border with Germania, I think some of the northern towns are rebel held, but also are pretty much worthless backwaters. The Germans won't have a decent trading port.

As you say, the Gauls have a decent chance of giving the Julii a hard time, that would appear to make a Blitz on Gaul with starting army a guaranteed strategic failure, even if it achieves early tactical success.

I think I need to methodically take Hibernia and clear sea of initial pirates, rather than immediately build military for war, due to upkeep and investment reasons, and build a war chest. Hopefully with an edge in troop quality, plus larger population base to recruit from.

Seems I'm a 2nd class land power, need to control the seas first, and then pick on weakness, when comparatively small forces can take advantage of weakened opposition. The relatively wealthy trade is going to be eaten up by naval costs, and disappear once the war starts.

As this campaign appears to require much more patience than str8 RTW-1.5 with a mighty faction, I'm hoping someone would share their experience of Britons in the Play Balance mod. May be, I ought to replay and ensure I don't lose the light chariots, but I expect the stables will provide for them so didn't see them as critical.

Originally Posted by salemty:
i know this is WAY off topic but does anyone know any sites with good information on battles?

Wikipedia has useful descriptions of particular battles. Frankly though some of the books I mentioned on Greek & Roman military history are better. Concentrate on the Generalship ones, rather than the type which focuses on details of Roman army, like dress, and equipment. They tend to present a superficial gloss on the battles, emphasis on the might of the Legions, rather than examining the reasons for their many defeats, with eventual strategic victories, followed by the slow decline and fall.

I like Internet Ancient History Sourcebook-- not only do they give information for the major battles, they also elaborate a fair bit about the ancient world in general. A bit dense and intimidating to browse through, but well worth it, IMO.



On-topic, RLucid, have you considered back-stabbing the Spanish? Spain is relatively rich, and I find that they don't put up as large a fight as the Gauls or Germans. Due to the terrain, I also find it somewhat easier to defend against. The only disadvantage, I suppose, is the distance between the British Isles and Spain. Worth a try, though.

(Disclaimer: I've never played as Brittania before, so..... take advice with pinch of salt. =D )

Was having a think about the alternatives to developing, delaying a move onto main continent and then going East. Which would deploy stronger later British units, against (hopefully) depleted opponents.

Possible alternative trading partners to Gaul are Spain, Carthage (Cordaba), Numidia (Tingi). Get diplomat on fleet south once Tara is taken.

Rebel Northern settlements to East, Bordesholm, Vicus Gothi, and the Domus Do da Leonardo da Vinci one. German army has quite a few Skirmisher Warbands and a little cavalry, not just Spearmen and Screeching Women, and their Phalanx mode is removed, making them tougher opponents in my opinion. If I go that way, then I conflict with Germania on a long land border, then later Scythia & Dacia as they expand westwards Have to hope, the Gauls and the Jullii fight themselves to a standstill, and that I wouldn't suffer consequences of being spread thin over rather poor, less fertile lands. All the time without having done a thing to cause demise of Gallic faction.

Raiding some Rebel town for slaves, and then sacking and abandoning it back to rebels might be interesting, to occupy the Grunts. But the population would be likely small, or too far away to make it feasible.

Spain probably will likely fight for Cordaba, or Cathago Neuvo, perhaps Numantia to. There's no rebel settlements down there. May be they could be colonised, and Carthage would be too busy with the Scipii to become aggressive in Spain. That would then leave me a similar problem to Carthage, having divided commitments, far apart, with many potential enemies; and likely to get in the way of the Jullii as they war against the Gauls.

The other trouble with Colonisation, is there's no reason to suppose, Spain or Numidia say is any weaker than other factions; until they've suffered some defeats. Strategic commitments are balanced by resources and army, or wealth. How well would Northern troops fair in southern climes? There'd be a danger to, that the trading partner would turn hostile, once there's a land border.

As pointed out, in PBM Gaul may beat off the Julii, and if Germany go North and East, then Gaul safely takes Lugdunum & Massilia to consolidate. Starting with 7 settlements 3 of whom are roughly size of Londinium.

Therefore it seems that letting the door rot, but then kicking it, when they're stressed and try to storm into Alesia, before they can react, would help Gaul fall (which is part of Britannia victory conditions). Basically trying to carve up Gaul, hoping the Jullii are moving East & South to finish off the job , under Senate direction, rather than leave the Med.

Gaul Start Roster - 7 settlements, Massilia & Lugdunum - Rebels

N. Italy - 6 WB, 3 LC, 2 NC, 1 SB + Spy
N. France - 4 WB, 1 SB, 1 D, 2 LC, 2 NC (suffices for 1 northern enemy)
S. France - 3 WB, 1 SB, 1 LC, 1 NC (likely move west to Massilia)

They even have a boat, but no port!

They begin with more balanced forces than I've seen before, number of Skirmisher warbands, and Light Cavalry. Whilst the Jullii concentrated should defeat them, the AI is rather likely to send a small force which gets defeated before getting serious later, and engaging with main army.

Looking at the population sizes, it would seem that the AI factions, tend to grow only very slowly on Large unit size (twice the Normal & Prologue setting). That suggests, the factions sacrifice future developments for large military, perhaps initially patiently doing the opposite would lay sound foundation for later success.

The Rebel Pirate problem is worse than I supposed.

Hit by 2 lots, with big boats of 3 chevrons, a fleet of 3 & 2 (and the 2 may have been in action, starting as a 3), meaning initial fleet of 5 green ships is not enough to sail westwards.

Blitz? Can't even sail a boat to the Isle of Wight!

Obviously the mistake is not having a Decere as Flagship.

If you play Britannia with the PBM it seems lots of patience required, it'll be a while before you can really do "anything". Had a little look at Summer 265BC, in Jullii game, and there the Britannia AI hasn't even captured Ebucarum. Just 2 settlements and nothing to show for 5 years & 10 turns.

Originally Posted by RLucid:
Spain probably will likely fight for Cordaba, or Cathago Neuvo, perhaps Numantia to. There's no rebel settlements down there. May be they could be colonised, and Carthage would be too busy with the Scipii to become aggressive in Spain. That would then leave me a similar problem to Carthage, having divided commitments, far apart, with many potential enemies; and likely to get in the way of the Jullii as they war against the Gauls.

The other trouble with Colonisation, is there's no reason to suppose, Spain or Numidia say is any weaker than other factions; until they've suffered some defeats. Strategic commitments are balanced by resources and army, or wealth. How well would Northern troops fair in southern climes? There'd be a danger to, that the trading partner would turn hostile, once there's a land border.

I was thinking holing in at Asturica, that settlement in the northwest of Iberia-- with a watchtower or two at the border, the rugged terrain and mountains ringing Gallaecia will work to your advantage. Certainly the Spanish won't be any tougher than the Germans.

Going East means war with Germania, and, honestly, the poor lands are not worth it, and you're going to have a hard time fighting with Germania, with their core cities just south of ratty little Bordeshlom and Vicus Gothi. If you choose to advance to take the German towns, you will have a border with Gaul anyway, and a hostile Germania to top it off. Might be worth trying to preserve Germania as a trade partner and potential ally in dismantling Gaul.

Eitehr way, though, looks to be an interesting campaign.

Originally Posted by Quirinus:
I was thinking holing in at Asturica, that settlement in the northwest of Iberia-- with a watchtower or two at the border, the rugged terrain and mountains ringing Gallaecia will work to your advantage. Certainly the Spanish won't be any tougher than the Germans.

Considered it, but suspect the aggro that could ensue with neighbouring Gauls, Carthage, and eventually the Jullii may be making it more trouble than it's worth.

I haven't even got round Lands End yet!! If I can't take Tara, what hope for success in Asturia?

Trying to replay it, and build port, then fleet which sails for Wales from London in about 265BC, possibly needing to retrain after 1st naval battle with pirates.

Been held up by defense deployment change on 2nd turn, if I move 1 less family member to permit disbanding a Peasant Garrison 1st turn (cut upkeep and gain pop. growth as it's > 10% of pop during long enforced 'peace'). As it is very difficult to get any value out of Light chariots, or heavy attacking even a settlement without stockade, the attack is problematic (2 spear warbands fight to death, attackers despite druids and slingers just don't fancy it as much). RTW just refuses to have chariots in a single file formation, so you can't drive along a path and provoke Rebel General into a trap, nor the opposing chariot formation into superior chariot forces in open field.

One last crack, before I give up in frustation. Spending the first 10 years, just trying to crack the pirates, isn't going to be much fun.

Originally Posted by :
Going East means war with Germania, and, honestly, the poor lands are not worth it, and you're going to have a hard time fighting with Germania, with their core cities just south of ratty little Bordeshlom and Vicus Gothi. If you choose to advance to take the German towns, you will have a border with Gaul anyway, and a hostile Germania to top it off. Might be worth trying to preserve Germania as a trade partner and potential ally in dismantling Gaul.

But those towns build and can trade, and count towards the 15 provinces. I found population reasonably once I took them before, rather than spam units. Part of the calculation, is that the Germans rely on Infantry, and the AI loves spear/swordsmen not skirmishers, making the Chariots more useful.

Think Gaul has to be gutted first, if I ever have patience to get that far.

264BC, Tara fell (chariots were attacked outside the town, and a pure hand to hand Infantry force, suffered the inevitable defeat against Heavy + Light (missile) Cavalry). No sign of pirates may be the larger navy force put them off, may be I was just unlucky first time.

But.... Gaul is at peace, no Julii attack, no German attack. Peace almost everywhere. Even the Greeks have peace with Brutii, looks like they're ganging up on Macedon.

Best laid plans of mice & men. Big fleet has yet to spot any pirates, or fight a battle. Gaul is sickenly peaceful with all it's neighbours.

260BC - First significant war - Germania & Dacia (guess over Luvavum or Losice)

Everyone else significant to me are at peace, Spain has allied with Numidia, presumably as an anti-Carthage measure.

The Julii are only at war with Carthage & Macedon, no move northwards and Gaul has quite some military strength. I suspect difficulties for a lone attack against them, when they can concentrate their strength and treasury, against an expeditionary force.

Spain appears the weakest possible target. Am concerned though long term plans would be wrecked, if Spain allies with Gaul, and they attack (without having been engaged by the Julii). An alliance with Carthage to increase pressure on Spain, and gain trade would make it hard to be on good terms with the Jullii.

Then there's Germania, ties in better with cultivating the Julii longer term, but as pointed out capturing Bordesholm does not exactly bring riches, or great military might.

The war chest is slowly building now. And it won't be too long before London reaches 6,000 population and I can build a stronger military.

Things all moving rather slowly, and start to see why the Vanilla RTW game, doesn't try to seek a balance. It's like all the power, are waiting to see, so they can pick on the weakies, rather than risk their strength making the first move.