China becomes most glorious number one carbon polluter!

The actual numbers have yet to come in but the projections look good enough for us to declare a winner! Way to go China! I knew they wouldn't let us down!

America-haters everywhere must be in mourning as the emerging superpower sizes up the number one slot...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7347638.stm

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

China 'now top carbon polluter'
By Roger Harrabin
BBC Environment analyst

The new research suggests China's emissions were underestimated

China has already overtaken the US as the world's "biggest polluter", a report to be published next month says.

The research suggests the country's greenhouse gas emissions have been underestimated, and probably passed those of the US in 2006-2007.

The University of California team will report their work in the Journal of Environment Economics and Management.

They warn that unchecked future growth will dwarf any emissions cuts made by rich nations under the Kyoto Protocol.

The team admit there is some uncertainty over the date when China may have become the biggest emitter of CO2, as their analysis is based on 2004 data.

Until now it has been generally believed that the US remains "Polluter Number One".

Next month's University of California report warns that unless China radically changes its energy policies, its increases in greenhouse gases will be several times larger than the cuts in emissions being made by rich nations under the Kyoto Protocol.

The researchers say their figures are based on provincial-level data from the Chinese Environmental Protection Agency.

They say analysis of the 30 data points is more informative about likely future emissions than national figures in wider use because it allows errors to be tracked more closely.

They believe current computer models substantially underestimate future emissions growth in China.

We are awaiting a formal comment from the UK Chinese Embassy, but Dr Max Auffhammer, the lead researcher, said his projections had been presented widely and no-one had raised a serious complaint.

All those concerned about climate change agree that China's emissions are a problem - including China itself. CARBON EMISSIONS

Global carbon emissions statistics were last published in 2004. They show Chinese emissions began rising rapidly in 2002.
University of California research suggests China overtook the US as the worst producer of carbon emissions in 2006


But China and many other developing countries struggling to tackle poverty are adamant that any negotiated emissions reductions should not be absolute, but relative to a "business-as-usual" scenario of projected growth.

That is why this study is of more than academic interest.

If it becomes widely accepted that China's future emissions are likely to be much higher than previously estimated, that will have to factored into any future global climate agreement if the Chinese are to be persuaded to take part.

In brief, although this study looks bad for China's reputation, it may be good for China's negotiating position.

The Chinese - and the UN - insist that rich countries with high per capita levels of pollution must cut emissions first, and help poorer countries to invest in clean technology.

America's per capita emissions are five to six times higher than China's, even though China has become the top manufacturing economy.

US emissions are still growing too, though much more slowly.

Dr Auffhammer told BBC News that his projections had made an assumption that the Chinese government's recent aggressive energy efficiency programme would fail, as the previous one had failed badly.

"Our figures for emissions growth are truly shocking," he said.

"But there is no sense pointing a finger at the Chinese. They are trying to pull people out of poverty and they clearly need help.

"The only solution is for a massive transfer of technology and wealth from the West."

He acknowledged that this eventuality was unlikely.

Those scientists aspiring to stabilise global emissions growth before 2020 to prevent what they believe may be irreversible damage to the climate may be wondering how this can possibly be achieved.

On an aside, after taking a nice hiatus (not that anyone noticed) due in no small part to a new job at one of the major cable news networks it's nice to know the Backroom is still buzzing with the usual antagonisms and discontent... :2thumbsup:

http://www.theonion.com/content/vide..._its_status_as

Hooray!

huh. i assumed they were #1 a long time ago.

Well according to the BBC's interesting approach taking this morning on the issue, if one bowl of rice gets represents carbon emissions, then each average Briton takes 3 bowls, compared to the average Chinese person getting one.

So while we're sitting on our PC's consuming power we're not in much of a position to talk...

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Well according to the BBC's interesting approach taking this morning on the issue, if one bowl of rice gets represents carbon emissions, then each average Briton takes 3 bowls, compared to the average Chinese person getting one.

So while we're sitting on our PC's consuming power we're not in much of a position to talk...

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Thus proving that the best way to keep carbon emissions low is to keep people in abject poverty. :2thumbsup:

Bah! We Americans are still the highest per capita producers or carbon emissions. Western efficiency gentlemen, western efficiency... :boxing:

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America's per capita emissions are five to six times higher than China's, even though China has become the top manufacturing economy.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Thus proving that the best way to keep carbon emissions low is to keep people in abject poverty. :2thumbsup:

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Don't get me wrong, of course the complete lack of environmental care shown in China is pretty shocking.

Just hope it doesn't take the pressure off Westerners like myself to keep our own emissions down.

:shocked2: :wall:

What can I do to maximize my "carbon footprint?"

Its taken this long for a nation of 1 billion people to overtake America?

They showed pictures of the Beijing skyline, complete with smog, on ESPN today. Pity the marathon runners this summer. Pity them. :no:

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Originally Posted by drone

They showed pictures of the Beijing skyline, complete with smog, on ESPN today. Pity the marathon runners this summer. Pity them. :no:

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They say they're more worried about the heat than the smog, although looking at the conditions myself I'd be worried I could see three feet ahead never mind the asthma etc...

Nice to hear from you again, Spino. Welcome back! :bow:

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Originally Posted by Spino

a new job at one of the major cable news networks

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Um, that would be how many ricebowls a day? :inquisitive: :laugh4:

I've been to China. Would you believe you could on a sunny day take a photograph of the damn sun without the film becoming saturated...? Five minutes outside in a big city and you're already blowing black gunk out of your nose.

In Beijing I also witnessed the interesting sight of an old man passing by with a cartload of what looked like "cakes" of coal, and the building he took them to sure as Hell didn't have any kind of filter in its stovepipe smokestack.

So who is the most glorious number one user of these goods?

Surely like GST we only apply the footprint to the end consumer...

Bah, Beijing in China is considered half decent compared to some other cities.

Have any of you guys ever been to Tian Jing(Is the pinyin right? I can't remember...)? It is in Shan Xi, basically THE coal producing province of China. Let me tell you, washing your face is basically worthless a couple years back. Its getting better now there, but is still really really bad compared to Beijing, which most find bad according to other standards

Beijing is pretty awful, but my train stopped in a few inland factory cities and they even put Beijing's smog to shame. And yeah, those "cake" things are coal.

Though there is clearly a problem with China's emmisions and the increasing amount of them - let us not sit back and just state how we are in the clear.

Measured as population by head we are still far more polluting and that is not an irrelevant stat, it is important. Plus I think it is pretty diabolical for us to lecture China having messed our pollution up over the last 200 years.

We all need to sort it.

Well, obviously. The difference's just that those last 200 years have already done a lot of damage, and we've at least learned enough from those mistakes to be actively trying to remedy matters (not counting the industry heel-draggers and their yes-men natch); China, India etc. play the same "up growth, screw side effects" game with the kinds of demographics they have, better start working on the Martian terraforming posthaste...

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Originally Posted by Watchman

The difference's just that those last 200 years have already done a lot of damage, and we've at least learned enough from those mistakes to be actively trying to remedy matters [..]

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Indeed. We in the West got there first, so to speak. We had to learn from scratch and we have come a long way. In a sense we haven't even started; just think of all the research into alternative fuels and other energy sources, pollution control and waste disposal. The next step is when we finally begin to make full use of the potential of nuclear energy. China will need a second wave of copy-cat economics and politics, since copied Western toys or SUV's will not suffice to meet the population's increasing expectations re consumption, health and general quality of life.

For the time being, China is still the only country in the world where canals explode, the sun takes on the colour of mud, and the main traffic artery and symbol of the nation's civilization (Yellow River) is, biologically speaking, as dead as a doornail.

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better start working on the Martian terraforming posthaste...

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We have, just the wrong way round - we're turning the Earth into a new Mars instead :clown:

Obviously Westerners are the most pollutive people per capita, but China and India act as though being developing countries means they can just make the same dumb mistakes. More to the point, India and China actually have the most to gain from cleaning up their industry. Whilst they argue for what they view as beneficial rights, the simple fact is that in the long term they are just running up a massive public health bill and destroying the factor endowments of their respective countries.