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My main question is for the Celtic/Germanic/Steppe peoples mainly....IMO because RTW engine had clones units EB1 had to make separate units for various types of warriors....WIth M2TWK you can have various soldiers and even weapons in the same unit....does this mean that you going to merge soldier types to compose more varied units? Like a unit of 3 different types of Celtic swordsmen which was 3 separate units in EB1 composes just one unit in EB2?
I highly doubt they will do this kind of thing. If 3 different units exists in EB 1 it's most likely because they were different enough to be represented as distinct units.
Um, I don't really understand the OP's question. If he is talking about different regional units all using the same or similar weapons, then no, these won't be got rid of because they represent soldiers from different tribal areas. If he is suggesting that units who carry different types of sword (short-sword, long-sword, two-handed sword) are merged into one, then this suffers from two complaints. Firstly, it would be impossible to do so due to statting issues: stats apply to the entire unit and we cannot differentiate stats depending on what weapon the soldier carries. Secondly, the idea that celts, germans would randomly mix different weapon sizes into one unit is largely a product of the romano-hellenic view of the barbarian peoples that we get through surviving literature.
Basically, units in EBII will hold different swords within the same unit, but having different sword models were never represented in EBI with different units. In fact, I charge the OP with finding an example like the one he posted that exists in actual fact in EBI.
Foot
No I didnt mean different sword types (like longsowrd, short sword, double handed etc) I meant because I cant imagine tribal warfare being so organized as to have the level of uniformity of post marian legion...thusone unit of spearmen may include SPEARMEN of 3 different kind....Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Anyway If this is the case as you say then do we have designs of 5 different armor/shield/weapon styles for EACH EBII unit? Its like 5 times the workload compared to EBI and even worst one may run out of archeological sources to design such variety....
The 3 kinds of spearmen that the aedui/arverni have each represent an actual unit, for example the Lugoae are tribal levies, in the reforms replaced by Gaeliche and the Gaeroas are warrior class professionals.
For the shields, well there is an aspis for most factions, to use Hoplitai as an example, so the team could just give each unit of Hoplitai a mix out of the existing ones.
Again, I ask for an actual example. As strategos alexandros has noted, the lugoae, gaeliche and gaeroas all represent different types of celtic warrior. I cannot think of any unit where, in EBI, we have used multiple unit slots to represent different armament or clothing, that would otherwise have existed all in one unit. Yes units in EBII will have different models for clothing shields and weapons, but this won't be compressing any EBI units down into one catch all unit - we don't deal with vanilla warbands.
Foot
Foot, what I think he might be referring to is the way that EB has a seperate unit for celtic swordsmen, spearmen and axemen, which would not the the way it was in RL. That's what makes the axemen stand out so much because they are the only unit to represent those warriors within the heterogenous celtic warbands (not referring to vanilla one) who used axes, while we have several units of different kinds of warrriors who use spears (because they are levy, professional and bodyguard, etc.). This is all based on the engine limits. In the perfect game, one would not recruit descrete units of spearmen, swordsmen and axemen, but instead call out the whole of the tribe's warrior who would be armed with a variety of arms and armor, rather than all armed the same.
Chairman
Whilst swords, axes, clubs and other melee weapons of the sort may well have been mixed within a formation of soldiers, given that the celts and particularly the germans mastered the shield wall formation early on, I doubt you would see spears as a primary weapon mixed in with swords as a primary weapon. There is one exception, and that is when it is used as a tactic. For example one germanic practice was to have the front line of a formation harmed with long pike-esque spears whilst the ranks below were armed with a sword and shield.
The idea that a celtic tribe "would not recruit descrete units of spearmen, swordsmen and axemen, but instead call out the whole of the tribe's warrior who would be armed with a variety of arms and armor, rather than all armed the same", just lacks common sense. An army like that wouldn't last two minutes, and I would be rather suprised if some of the greatest cultures of western europe didn't learn the basic lesson of combined arms.
However, I'm still drawing a blank on a group of units that the OP could possibly be referring to. It would have to be a group, the unit of which represents the same region and same status of warrior, the only difference being what weapon they wielded. In all cases that I can think of, we have chosen a weapon most suitable for the unit, though with the obvious caveat that it would not have been the only type of weapon soldiers within the formation would wield. But the unit came first, not the weapon.
Foot
Also, to add to Foot's answers, Animations also have to be taken into account.
Even if there was a mixed arms unit, it would be impossible to implement due to a unit only being able to have certain animation families.
It would look very odd if, say, a mixed spear/sword unit was using only one or the others animation set.
You are right in the assumption that a tribe would levy all capable warriors who it has, and that would result in them having many different weapon types in their army. What you forget, is that while there were many different weapon types in a single levy, those weapon types would be formed in to units that have only one weapon type! So if a levy would muster 200 axeman, 1000 spearmen and 100 swordsmen, they would not go to war as a disorganised mob touting different kinds of weapons in a single shieldwall. They would be organised in to i.e. 2 axeman units, 1 swordsman unit and 10 spearmen units.Quote:
Originally Posted by chairman