Playing for a mercantile empire

I think my next campaign, I would like to build a mercantile empire. I would like to get some thoughts on how best to do that.
First, I was leaning going with Milan. Historically, they did establish a large mercantile presence. But as far as the game goes, I'm not sure if that should be my first choice.
Second, I've played as Eng and Spain before. Everytime, my merchants start weak and are easily taken over. What's the best way to get my merchants strong quickly.
Thirdly, since I will be concentrating merchants and trade, what can I do to keep the rest of the nations from wanting to beat on me. I know the game is geared to go after the player, more than AI nations. In my previous games, with having to conquer territories and absorbing other factions, it ends up nobody really likes me. Countries like going to war with me and I can't get peace with them, no matter how much money I'm willing to pay.
Thanks for any advice you guys can give.

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Originally Posted by Orion66

I think my next campaign, I would like to build a mercantile empire. I would like to get some thoughts on how best to do that.
First, I was leaning going with Milan. Historically, they did establish a large mercantile presence. But as far as the game goes, I'm not sure if that should be my first choice.

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If your thinking of building up a merchants empires, based on trade and money, then i would suggest scrapping the idea of playing as Milan. They will be constantly attacked by both HRE and Venice, and i dont think they will be able to pay off those two factions for peace. They do start off with a fair few good merchants though.... Its up to you

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Originally Posted by Orion66

Second, I've played as Eng and Spain before. Everytime, my merchants start weak and are easily taken over. What's the best way to get my merchants strong quickly.

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I would suggest reading some of the threads which detail what things you can do to get traits to increase your merchants skills. This may be difficult to do, but it is usually worth it in the end...

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Originally Posted by Orion66

Thirdly, since I will be concentrating merchants and trade, what can I do to keep the rest of the nations from wanting to beat on me. I know the game is geared to go after the player, more than AI nations. In my previous games, with having to conquer territories and absorbing other factions, it ends up nobody really likes me. Countries like going to war with me and I can't get peace with them, no matter how much money I'm willing to pay.

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If they constantly attack you, i suggest beating them back everytime, perhaps capturing a city in the process, then give it to them, along with some money, offer some other stuff, and they should accept. I would also consider allying with some of the factions that are unlikely to attack you, such as when i was playing as Venice, i was never attacked by the Byzantines, they just seemed to get along with what ever else was happening in the middle east. You might struggle to find some willingly peaceful factions, but when you do you should be comfortable for the moment...

I think you're playing the wrong game. Ive often had similar impulses but the fact is that the Total War games are all about war and it's the only way to achieve anything and you'll never ever be at peace for long.

Hello,

I have to disagree - I think you can play a trading game in MTW. Milan is a reasonable option - so is Venice. You just need to make sure you have the righ priorities & it often ties up with a raiding strategy.

For example, you have afford to protect your home cities very well. Also, to have a good navy with a seaborne stack for actions abroad. Remember however not to get dragged into big land wars. Coastal cities or islands are your home.

If you raid a city - pull out - don't be tempted in unless it becomes a trading post. You can end up having isolated cities from Venice to the Crimea but it makes for a fun game.

Also, with the cash behind you, you become a powerful influence.

You need to keep your armies limited. It is always a challenge to pick out the right stack for your seabourne fleet & you should be ready to deploy at a moments notice.

One drawback in MTW2 is that I miss Malta!!!! Which was a well-place & brilliant strategic location to help manage your seabourne empire!!!!!

Henri

playing as a trading empire is fun, and a nice diversion from rolling over everything in all-out conquest.

milan( should be genoa for this purpose) and venice are the obvious historically correct choices, but sicily, denmark and the english fit the bill nicely too,ahving relatively safe borders and good trade potential.

the danes were great for the purpose in MTW, secure scandinavia and do naval landings in the richest trade provinces, ending up with scandinavia, the british isles, sicily, antioch etc, a very small landmass, unexhaustable funds and a small, but extrmely advanced, army.

Take Timbuktu, Arguin, Dongola and Bagdad. If you don't border a faction that border these provinces - give them away to them and get trade agreement. Send all your merchants there. You'll make a fortune! :grin:

Shouldn't be too hard, as not many factions will be sending merchants here.

Well, I picked Venice. I'm at about turn 30, and things are pretty good. My merchants are on the gold, silver, and amber in the area, made allies with Sicily, Pope, and Byzantium.
I've taken Zagreb, Durazzo, and Rhodes. My council now wants me to take Smyrna, but I think I'll let them be. I don't want Byzantium to think I'm hemming them in.
I've been concentrating on buildings that improve trade. I'm planning on keeping the army as small as I can, but improved with better armor. So far, nobody's made any threatening moves in my direction. Everyone's been busy taking out rebels. I think my first problem is going to be HRE. They have a good sized stack in Vienna. Probably they will try to take Zagreb. I'm planning on absorbing that attack, then I'll go after Vienna.
I might take the hint from earlier post, and after taking Vienna, offer it back to them for a peace. I think I'll try to ally with France, also. Though it would be nice if the game had your allies attack your enemy.
I'm surprised I can get only 4 merchants right now. I have 6 provinces, and I've got grain exchanges, markets in them, plus 1 fairground in one.

Allways look out for Milan! Keep Venice garrisoned well in case of a surprise attack! :smiley2:

After some time, I would imagine Hungary would want Zagreb too. It's tough playing a North Italian faction, and especially Venice - they all want a piece of you. I have a game now, I think I'm in turn 48 or so, and Milan, HRE, Byzantium and Hungary are all picking on me. I have not been aggressive towards them in any way. I'm just holding the "wrong" provinces.

I would say take out Byzantium first, because then you will have it easier on the eastern front, and can build up a peaceful trading empire there. It's not very attractive with a two-front war, you know. :ballchain:

As a matter of fact, Milan just attacked Venice. I was going to sally out and take them out, but I decided to wait and try a defensive siege. Surprised me on the next turn, they left. Turn after that one, they asked for a cease fire. Guess my forces in Venice scared them.
Yeah, I'm sure I'll get ganged up on, hopefully much later. If I have to, I'll probably try to take out Milan first, before Byzantium. I want to be able to use them as buffer whey the Mongols come a knockin'.

The Milanese are bounders & cads to a man - never trust the green men with crossbows....

Also, beware of Durzzo, don't what is there but everyone seems to want it. To build a reasonable mercantile empire one of the comprimises is that you keep out of the places where the AI just loveeeesssss to go....

I love the idea someone mentioned of a very small but advanced army, built for short-term engagements not the stack-fests we normally see. In a true mercantile game, you have to be prepared to withdraw from the land back to your natural habitat, the sea...

Keep that gold rolling in......

YOU ALL FAIL AT LIFE

Don't take my previous post as a stab at your good intent :no:


It's just that while you can indeed play as a merchant empire, you'll lose doing so. If that's fine by you and you just want to have a bit of fun then cool. Just a bit of a shame there arent other victory conditions aside from "KILL DEM ALL!!1".

I'm confused.....in general...

Playing the trading game is quite fun and I do it often. Its always entertaining to make a strong economy esp since I find that to be more difficult to manage than any battle. Also, if you only play every time to "kill 'em all" it kinda takes away from other available scenarios. I create my own scens. and play them out and most of them do not include taking over the whole map. Far to easy to rush the AI even on VH conditions..

If you decide to make a strong economy and take on the AI in the late period at least they have been given the chance to strenghthen themselves and often enough put up more of a fight because of it. A strong economy also allows you to be creative in the provinces you do attack and hold, perhaps to be adventurous as well... its not like its cheap to send a stack of units from Britain to Timbuktu, or from Egypt to Denmark.

By keeping it small it makes your battles more important, you have less room to retreat intoso your battles become must win in effect, unless you enjoy having your massive economic cities pillaged and burned.

Smaller empires allow you to support the AI factions better, and make for interesting encounters.For example, you can send armies in support of allied factions so you get to fight battles alongside allied armies which is rather fun (I wish you could betray em in battle tho like in mtw1 hehe..)

All that to say, there are many diff ways you could play the game, its up to the individual for me, I start so many diff campaigns and play em all a diff way, most never finished because Ive already "won" if I really wanted to... but kinda boring after 20x that way.

You're right about the cost. Speaking just to those of a mercantile tilt, the cost of sending a full stack on long cruise to say Eygpt will really build up & the costs of any sacking may not cover it....

I think in a mercantile game it is always a question of costs.

I agree it can make for some great scenarios - just wish there were more island to sieze - I LOVED MALTA in MTW1!!!

Henri

Ha, Ha! Milan just attacked Venice again, and after it's first turn of seige, the whole stack went rebel. Now for my Doge to wreak terrible vengeance!

Right now i am playing a mercantile game as Spain. Iberia makes a great cash cow when built up. I turned Toledo and Valerencia into cities wiped out Portugal and kicked the Moors into North Africa. I've been at war with France for about twenty turns but haven't taken any of their settlements. I just keep one or two stacks of elite troop in France, which wipe out the AI's armies before they can cross the Pyrenes (spl?). I also keep a strong navy to prevent the English and Moors form making landfall in Iberia. I'm at turn 60 and have been having allot of fun. Plus, with the extra time not used conquering, I can actually enjoy building up priests, assassins, and merchants, as well as pruning my family tree.

When raiding and taking a city you don't want to keep because the border will bring trouble, try sacking it, building a small church the turn you repair troops, cannibalize all the other buildings and then giving it to the Holy Father. Nice score on the Pope-o-meter and no need to go thrashing about the Middle East with the rest of the thick-skulled quadrupedal tanks.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

I think you're playing the wrong game. Ive often had similar impulses but the fact is that the Total War games are all about war and it's the only way to achieve anything and you'll never ever be at peace for long.

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Which is what drags this game down. If it had more focus on diplomacy and trade, a la Europa Universalis III, but with the same focus on tactical combat, it would be THE strategic time for the time period.

Playing as an Italian faction one can use merchants early on to good effect. They can easily take over the multitude of wandering AI merchants who seem to be drawn like flies to hamburgers on a grill to northern Italy. The Pope always sends quite a lot up through the top of the boot. Can one still buy Bologna on the first turn from the HRE for 2k a turn for 3 turns? I have always run to the Pope for an alliance and start giving him 200 fl. a month. Soon, if you are attacked that faction(s) get excommed. and you are free to attack them and get even better Pope ratings. Sail over and attack the Moors if you are bored or call a crusade to the Near East - you can get there fast by sea. You have interior lines. You have great productive cities and good units that can be built from them. Take Naples and Palermo and you can't lose, if you stay sober.