-
CBUR's "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 released.
Στρατιγικον Μεγα Δομεστικου των Σχολων πιστου τω Θεω υπηρετη Αντωνιου.
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...eke_poster.jpg
Looking around all over mods of M2TW and their medieval Roman (byzantine) unit rosters,an idea came to mind!
To create a complete unit roster covering two(2)maijor eras but having all byzantine army's reforms...
The 1st project will cover a time frame from 1025 to 1460 with the army's reforms of 1205 and after...
This project will have the priority becouse most mods that are in development have the year 1080 as starting date...
The 2nd project will cover the time frame 650 to 1025 with the army's reform of 800 and Nikephrus Phokas reform at 950ad...
There will be a number of units that will coexist in the two projects the same way the real units existed many centuries as troops[Ex:Acritae].
The result of this project when and if acomblished will be free for any one who would desire to add a complete and historical accurate byzantine units roster...
The only obligation for a moder or moding team will be the anoucment of accepting this project in order of agknowlegment of the members work!!!
I would like at first to know the public's oppinion about this project's existance...
Then i will need all those that would be able to share their skills and knowlege for a such a project...
AnthoniusII (researcher)
Tangro (skinner)
The_Bulgar_Slayer (researcher)
Vahe (researcher)
Pompeius Magnus (researcher)
Ificratis(moder)
Caesar Clivus(moder)
Stefaneke(modeler)
Neoptolemos(public realations)
Basic features that required for all the "units"that will be in the list...
1st:Accurate names...
This is the most comlicated issue...Through the centuries same units often changed their names according to the public languege spoken that time...
A minor examble:You must already have seen even in historical books the names[accontistai],[peltastoi] or [psiloi]...This kind of warriors never stop to exist in the roman armies and despite the diferend name they were the SAME unit...
2nd:Accurate armors...
Next to the name issue was the armor issue...This is going to be the most difficult issue of all...Lets suppose that a unit exists in more than on era,in more than one reform...Armors and weapons changed often according to the era of weapons/armors improuvments or according the opponets the troops had to fight!
3rd:Weapons..
I do not mean the kind of weapons a unit will use but the double weaponed feature...
The 3rd era in moding has already started by a bunch of wonderfull mods and many more are to come...
No more units with only one weapon...
Examble:Millitia(thematic)regional infantry...They may not have armor at their 1st level but they must be equipted with both spear and sword or axe!
Some moders/modelers already opened the way...I hope they would like to help here also!!!
http://static3.filefront.com/images/...ncumwtjnqv.jpg
presents...
Basileia ton Romaion submod for Stainless Steel 6.1
https://img209.imageshack.us/img209/...nsymbolzm3.jpg
The aim of this submod is to provide the players of Stainless Steel 6.1 with a historically accurate medieval Roman (i.e. Byzantine) unit roster. Almost all of the vanilla units for the Byzantines were either inaccurately implemented or just plain inaccurate. This submod redresses this...and more!
Download: (Megaupload)Basileia ton Romaion v1.0 for SS6.1
Alternate download (Filefront)
Installation Instructions
1. Download the above file
2. Run the installer and point it to your Medieval II Total War directory (not the SS directory)
3. Delete the map.rwm files from the Stainless_Steel_6\data\world\maps\base and Stainless_Steel_6\data\world\maps\campaign\custom\Late_Era_Campaign folders. The campaign will take a minute or two to start the first time after you do this. Don't worry it's normal (the game is rebuilding the map).
4. Delete the events.dat and events.idx files from the Stainless_Steel_6\data\sounds folder.
Features:
A completely overhauled unit roster. Almost all units are completely new and historically accurate.
A combination of skins from several modders as well as many original creations.
New weapon models and textures (thanks to Lord_Calidor)
Realistic battle banners.
Starting conditions for both Early and Late Era campaigns are much more accurate. Help the Komneneans restore the Empire to its former glory in the Early campaign. Or fight to regain Constantinople from the crusaders in the Late Era campaign.
New battle and strat map models for all army leaders.
Career system for Byzantine generals.
New roleplaying features. Recover Byzantine relics. Gain titles for your generals
Byzantine quotes for loading screens
Proper terrain around Constantinople. No more tropical jungle.
Please post any feedback/bugs in this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182151
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
This project needs any help it can get...
Any modelers,scripters,texturers etc that can help please contact me through email.... :2thumbsup:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
Many will ask.."why such an extensive unit project?".
The answer is simple...A moding team must have accesable units to every medieval time frame...
A long time ago i posted this...
Originally Posted by AnthoniusII http://www.twcenter.net/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif
Advantages and disadvantages of some dates as starting ones...
As possible dates as starting ones for a "medeival" mod could for examble be..
A:801
B:900
C:1025
D:1072 or 1066
E:1080
F:1090
G:1180
H:1205
Let us find out what each date has to "offer"...
A:801AD:It is the 1st year that Charlemagne is under his "imperial" title... In that time in europe has a great francish/germanic state but only few other european factions to be playable...The east roman empire still has all balcans,asia minor and a part of italy...But a mod weach starts at 801 will be a islamic/arabic dominated one...Arabs (3 or 4 major or lesser factions will have all north africa,midlle east and a great part of spain under their rule... And we must NOT forget the islands od sicely and crete as well...A player as an arab chaliph could easily dominate in the mod's world just doing NOTHING.
B:900AD:The year of ballances.After the batlle of Licaon river in central asia minor between the romans and arabs in 860ad there is a time that comes a ballance between the islamic and christian worlds...The romans once again become the super power of the time with only two thorns in their sides(serbia and bulgaria).Arabs now divited in many factions still dominate in spain,notrh africa,middle east...In europe the francish empire start to became many minnor states much more a mod can afford as playable factions...The "good" issues a mod like this could provide is the turkish emerge and the viking expansion to both eastern and western europe.
C:1025AD:The year of total superpower(as the historians agree).The roman empire is the ONLY real state in europe.Europe that tries to find a road to leave the dark ages...Arabs are inside a ruthless civil war (once again) living the roman emperors to play as they wish...The new features a mod like this could offer could be the domination of the vikings in all north europe and the 1st apearance of the turkish/turcamanic federations.In a medium dificalty a player of any faction could NOT survive against the only superpower.
D:1066-1072AD:Two dates that could easily have the title of "the turning point".Both of them mark a major event that changed the world more or less.
We must remember that even after his victory William did not ocupied England(he needed several year more to accomplish the occupation).
As for the 2nd date even after the loss of the Maziquert batlle the roman empire DID NOT loose its provinces and remained a hurted but strong superpower(it was a civil war nesesary to change both)...There is no serbia,bulgaria,muslim cretan principallity and others in that date)...
E:1080AD:This date has severall advantages for a mod to begin...
1st The roman empire is no longer a superpower(it still has all balcans and domination but allready lost 75% of asia minor and a new greek/turkish state has been created).The muslim world is divited is many but still strong states. Viking origin states in east europe have established and William has not only survived but diminates in most of saxon lands in England...Italian federations of trade are in uprissing...In that date there is a ballance of terror that is going the change soon....
F:1090AD:Few years before the 1st crusade...Crusades,missions with no chance for success...What huppened?Civill wars kept muslim world away of defending those lands...Muslim states that gained more gold each one alone than all european states together...How a realistic mod could present that issew?The "new"things that a mod like this could offer could be the serbian,croatian and bulgarian rebelions as starting factions of the mod...
G:1180AD:The year of the last hope for the roman empire to regain asia minor once and for all...From 1080 to 1180 the empire is once again the ultimate superpower(smaller in lands but stiil strong)The crusade states are divited even under the king og Jerusalem...The prince of Antioch is the roman emperor's vassal...Any way is generally the time frame of "Kingdoms".A mod that starts in this date can not show the basic medeival world in a player becouse that world has allready changed...
H:1205AD:The last good choice for a medeival mod to start could be 1205ad.
The roman empire does not exist(at least for a sort time).That date could focus more to the latin states of the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople...
Famous principalities such the principality of ACHAIA (the most famous knights all over europe according to historians of their time).A mod that starts in such a date will nesesary focus on christian factions (new in every way)and had muslim/islamic world out of nessesity...
That is the reason for this project...
A moding team must have the right staff for any of those starting dates...
This project aims to become a selff from any moding team will take what it would need according to the starting date...I still hope that famous skillfull members will help!!!!:)
An other question that must be answered...
Why all those unit/army's reforms?
The answer is another question!
What is the main problem when a mod wants to have the byzantines as a faction?
The answer:The paradox of the unit roster comparing mostly with the west european ones!I explain my self...
Let us take as examble the year 1080,a common starting date for many mods!
The europeans have the mailed knights as heavy cavalry but the byzantines have no heavy cavalry available!The paradox is that in that date super heavy cavalry had only two factions in the west europe...the remains of the Lombardic states and the byzantines...
Many will say...allright but if the byz faction will have that superior cavalry early in it's disposal how the empire will come to a possition that will be in danger with all this exelent roster?
We must not forget that the empire lost lands and people not becouse of it's army but becouse of many civil wars and bad addministration!
If we would like to show accuratly the bad possition the empire got in to we can use the "reform" issue!
Imaging that after 1205 a byz roster without scholarii but with pronoiarii,without cavalarii but with turkopoles,without the acritae cavalrymen but with the new stratiotae(light cavalry) etc...
With the "reform"issue 1st we can teach byz history and 2nd force the player to understand WHY the empire hired so many merc troops at the last 2 centuries!!!!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
1st post edited....:idea2:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
CBUR project asks the modeling comnunity's help..........
We declair a modeling project and we hope modelers will answer!
Ofcourse credits will be given!
https://usera.imagecave.com/anthoniusii/siege1.jpg
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
Soon there will be a early version of the Byz army unit roster (1080)ussing skins that allready are available...and Ificratis Byz.Officers career system...:2thumbsup:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
This army roster aims to mods that start at 1080ad!
Unit list:
1:Acontistae
2:Toxotae
3:Contarati
4:Gasmouli
5:Latin handgunners
6:Castrophilakae
7:Archontopouli
8:Acritae
9:Acritae(mounted)
10:Scoutati(swordmen)
11:Scoutati(spearmen)
12:Mourtati
13:Cavalarii
14:Stratiortae
15:Varangian Guard
16:Skithiki(petzenegs)
17:Latiniki(normans)
18:Alamani(germans)
19: Pronoiarii
20:Scholarii
21:Siphonatores
22:Spatharii tou Vasileos
23:Athanati
Optional artillery units(unique)
24:Lithovolos Catepeltes
25:Repeating arrow thrower.
Infantry Units:14
Cavalry Units:9
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
This army roster aims to mods that start at 1080ad!
Unit list:
1:Acontistae
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...Acontistae.jpg
Acontistae (javelinears).
The basic infantry unit of a provincial army armed with light javelings,small wooden baclers and small axes!
Basicaly peseants armed by the local governor...
2:Toxotae
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...otae_final.jpg
Toxotae:
According to standard millitary orders each provincial ruller(general)had to keep a large number of "soft"bows to provide the city's defending poppulation a basic weapon to help against the attackers!
The description"soft"refairs to the string's power!!The peasants were not profesionals to know who to hundel a combosite bow!
Unlike the other "psiloi" units toxotae with battle expiriance were paid by the local general in order to have access to some basic armors to ingrease their surviving possibilities!
Their most ussual equipment was exept the bow,a small wooden bucler and a small axe or a sword for close combat...
Often they used hard leather or padded armors!
3:Contarati
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...atoi_final.jpg
Contarati
As a word means spearmen from the ancient greek word "kontos" and the later byzantine version "kontarion"...
4:Gasmuli
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...ir/gasmuli.jpg
Gasmuli:Latin merchants often created families in the cities
they lived.Children of theirs called by the rest popullation
gasmuli.Some historians of their times use to claim that
gasmuli were exelent naval crews mostly naval heavy
archers.
5:Latin handgunners
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...andgunners.jpg
In order to protect their interests in the cities they had merceant stations,Italian
merceants formed some small units with exnaval crews or mercenaries
strait from Italy!They armed them selvs with every "new"weapon they could buy..
Handguns were some of them!
6:Castrophilakae
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...akae_final.jpg
Castrophilakae.
Every province ruller(the local general) had an obligation by the law to reqruit a small profetional hardcore unit by his expences!
They took their name(castrophilakae) by the word 'καστρα" castles a generic name for fortification walls in the greek languege...
So they were mainly the wall keepers in peace times.As wall keepers we mean that they maned the border forts or the kleisoures(small forts on crossroads and other strategic positions...From the kleisoures forts their officers took a name as kleisourarchae...
Their 2nd task was to enforce the law as a "pollice" force in the cities by the General's orders!
7:Archontopula
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...lai_final2.jpg
Archontopula:Their name means "children/sons of the nobles...
For the 1st time in the empire's existance emperors reqruit underage
(younger than 19 years old)soldiers...They may lack of expirience but
they are considered some of the most"fanatic"troops!!
8:Acritae
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...itae_final.jpg
9:Acritae(mounted)
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...ed_Acritae.jpg
Acritae.For the greek/romans these soldiers were the most famous of all(and population wrote many epic songs and myths for them)...
They were the successors of the limitanei roman troops and afcource their name also means border (acri=final line of the state=border)...
As troops were the majority of semiprofessional soldiers of each province(thema).For the reqruitment of Acritae the "military lands" status were invented...Lived by the military lands close to the empire's borders they transformed from light to medium multi role soldier acting as border guards during peace and as raiding forces or ambushers during war time...
They were a multi functional tool to every generall and his province.
10:Scoutati(swordmen)
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...word_final.jpg
11:Scoutati(spearmen)
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...atoi_final.jpg
Scoutati:
Their name means the shield cariers!(just like ancient greek hoplitae)...
They were part of the majority of the line infantry and the unit's name continued to exist all the empire's life...
They used to name like this for the easiest separation of the lansarii (light spearmen-later known as contarati) and from the heavier of the 600-800 era unit of promachi!After 800 the scoutati and promachi coexist in one unit as simple scoutati!In some ocations also named as (h)oplitae as well!
12:Mourtati
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...atoi_final.jpg
Mourtati.
The empire often suffered by lack of good archers ...
Komneneans were somehow lucky by the entance of large number steppe warriors
mostly turks and turkomans who change their religion and became sitizens of the empire...
The kursores/defensores unit system was in use again!
13:Cavalarii
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...arii_final.jpg
Cavalarii.Their name means horsemen...They were not just one unit through out history but they are remembered as the medium multi role kind of cavalry the empire used almost all it's eras and survived until the end in the Empire of Trapezond 1460ad!
14:Stratiotae
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/..._ug2_final.jpg
Stratiotae.
The cost of having and support a horse,often millitary training and the cost of a good
and afective armor was quite big...Thematic way of reqruitment solved that problem
by giving a farm (the farm's income)to a soldier in order of keeping him to his millitary
obligations(and not care how he will manage to survive)...
Their name was often Stratiotae...
15:Varangian Guard
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...uard_final.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/..._ug1_final.jpg
Etairia ton varangion(Varangian Guard):
Warriors from north europe were in the empire's service from the late
roman era especialy from germanic tribes.In the years of the
emperor Basileios II a new kind of warriors became part of the
imperial army's roster...The famous viking origin Varangians known
as (pelekiphoroi phrouroi)”the guards armed with axes”.This unit
of mersenaries was in duty to the last moments of the empire.
Many saxon warriors entered the unit after 1070ad!
Type:Saxon huscarls,viking varangs.
16:Skithikon(steppe merc warriors)
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...koi_final1.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...koi_final2.jpg
Skythiki etairia(skythikon):
As scyths romans named all eastern type of warriors,mostly the
steppe ones like turks,petzenengs and others.They were tough warriors and
skilled horsemen and the correct antidote to scimilar opponets.
17:Latinikon
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...ikon_final.jpg
Latiniki etairia(latinikon):
Since the time of Jiustinianos and the roman reqonquista in Italy
many european origin warriors offered their military servise to the
empire.Francs,goths,lombards and the most famous of
them the Normans...
18:Alamani(germans)
Alamani
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...anoi_final.jpg
This was the name of all "german"origin mercenary troops from 3rd to 14th century.
They started as tribal or auxilia troops and tranformed to allied(help from German allies)
ones...They ussualy formed heavy infantry units...
19: Pronoiarii
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...arii_final.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/..._ug1_final.jpg
Pronoiarii.
Nikephorus Phokas as emperor made the start...
In order to have access to heavier cavalry gave biger lands to some soldiers...
Komneneans trying to find not only heavier cavalry but also armed political support
gave the right to some soldiers not only to have access to more larger farm lands(Pronoias)
but also the right to arm some private serveants with the obligation to attach to the imperial
armies when needed...It was the feudal era in Medeival Roman Empire...
20:Scholarii
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...rii_final1.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...rii_final2.jpg
Sholae units(or Vasilika Tagmata):These ellite fully proffecional
imperial units well known as cataphractoi or clivanophoroi (from
the type of their armor),are the hard core of the imperial army.Mostly
are very heavy cavalry but they have infantry units in their roster too.
Their infantry units were known as vasilica tagmata ton opliton and
their cavalry were known as vasilica tagmata ton ippeon or simply
Tagmata.
21:Siphonatores
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...ores_final.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...res_final1.jpg
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...res_final2.jpg
Siphonatores:
Very few things are known for those "imperial" troops...
They were among the most trusted (becouse of the secret weapon they caried)
and most protected(by armor) troops of the empire!
We know that they started as ship asault troops but they soon used as wall asault
or defending ones too!!!
22:Spatharii tou Vasileos
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...leos_final.jpg
After excubitors lost the their duty
as imperial guards and became one of the four(4) imperial ellite units known as Vasilica Tagmata,the very personal guarison of the emperor
was a small,mostly dratitional unit the spatharioi. Their leading
officer was known as Protospatharios tou vasileos (he carried the
emperor's sword in official presentations and seremonies.Having in their
disposal the imperial armoury,they were one of the most heavily
armored unit in the world!
23:Athanati (General's Bodyguard)
https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/...atoi_final.jpg
Athanati(immortals)
The emperor created a unit ussing an old ideaof the persians and the antropoi tou vasileos previus unit!!
The main diferance between the "anthropoi tou vasileos" and the new "immortals" was the nature of reqruitment...
Anthr. tou Vas. were the emperor's most trusted men and when some of them were killed in battle it was extimly dificuld to be replaiced...
Nikeohorus changed that...the new"emperor's bodyguard"remained full as number reqruiting new members for other units...
Somehow they became the new mounted praitorians but only a number of 512 men of them!
Optional artillery units:
24:Lithovolos catapeltes(roman catapult)
25:Repeating arrow thrower!
Infantry Units:14
Cavalry Units:9
Artillery Units(unique):2
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
The mod still needs any help it can get for:
Nikephorus Phokas reform...(a unit list refairing to Byzantine/Bulgarian wars)940-1050ad!
The byzantine armies of the 1st and 2nd Arab expantions(632-940ad with a reform at 750ad)...
Any one who wants to help please contact me via pm!:2thumbsup:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnthoniusII
And here is our progress so far...
http://downloads.stefantjuh.googlepa...ballista_8.jpg
http://downloads.stefantjuh.googlepa...ballista_9.jpg
Remember we still need anyone that could help..........
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
The unit list pic edited!:laugh4:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
See our "new" units....:laugh4:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
Are you a modeler?
Do you interesting of creating some unique units of byzantine armies of 3 major eras?
Take the chalenge and join us!!!:2thumbsup:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
The list of the Komnenean army is finalized!
Prepare for a release soon!!!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
Beautiful skinning and great history. Keep up the good work!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
:yes: i can help, not strait away though as my M2TW has gone funny and i am awaiting reply from SEGA customer support. but yes i can help. i am a big fan of the Byzantines.
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
We still need a modeler that could help to our next Rosters(armies from 650-900 and from 900-1079)!
WE also need a animator for our unique rtillery units!!!
Pm me if you are interesting or you know someone that could and willing to help us!:2thumbsup:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project SS 6.1 submod relaesed
CBUR anounces that the "Basileia ton Romaion" submod for Stainles Steel is relaesed!
Check the 1st post for the links and further details!!!
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project SS 6.1 submod relaesed
-
CBUR "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 is released!
Please can a moderator change the title as the 1st post title is?
I can not change it even via the "go advance"button...:furious3:
-
Re: Complete Byzantine Units Roster project...help needed!
CBUR is proud to anounce that the 2nd project is now in development...
"Nikephorian Armies Unit Roster" aiming to mods from 900 to 1070ad
and will present the most glorius Medeival Roman units of Nikephorus Phokas
,Ioannes Tzimesces and Bassil II Bulgaroctonus!!!!
-
Re: CBUR's "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 released.
To all moderators...
If you want to add our "Komnenean" unit roster in your mod just post here...
Name...
Name of the mod you aks permision for...
And we will contact you as soon as posible!
-
Re: CBUR's "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 released.
Are you a modeler?
Do you interesting of creating some unique units of byzantine armies of 3 major eras?
Take the chalenge and join us!!!
Post here if you are interesting for the job!
-
Re: CBUR's "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 released.
CBUR project begins a competition in medeival Ships models!!!
All modelers should practice a lot ....
The competition will start at March 1st of this year...
Ships:
Dromon
Fire Dromon
Cog
50 and 70 feet Viking ships
Dow
Early Italian Galey
All researchers that have picks or designs or models of those ships post them here!
The Roman(byzantine)and arabic ships will be the most dificult becouse
they must be equipted with balistas,catapults and the byzantine ones with repeating arrow throwers and siphons(fire Dromons)...
This competition refairs to a future mod in ETW...!
We must wait and see 1st the naval batlle mechanism of CA and them modify the ships...
-
Re: CBUR's "Basileia ton Romaion"submod for SS 6.1 released.
The Komnenean Roster is available to every moding team wishes to add
a realist and accurate Byzantine roster...
Just pm me and i will sent the matterial and permision!!!
