Ernest becomes a Body Slave.

Has anybody ever had so much bad luck in their campaign as to submit to being made a protectorate - out of necessity for survival?

And if you have gone that far below dignity, and still persisted in the campaign - is the game still playable?

From what I've seen, so long as one plays on Medium difficulty, the AI is very merciful, and a good ally once you become a protectorate.

I was theorising what I would do if I lost my war against the Romans playing as the Arverni, and they managed to conquer the Alps before I could raise another efficient army.

Eventually they would give me the right to surrender, and I think I would play along, instead of giving up the game in my normal custom.

It would be fun to play in such a position I think, you would feel very safe.. Biding your time until you could assert your freedom once more.

Does anyone have an opinion or experience on this?

I would rather die fighting then become something like that, especially when it's to become someone's slave. it isn't like you become part of their empire as new members, but as slaves.

the fire 3 times I played RTW vanilla was met with the faction destroyed pop up. I simply didn't know how to make a profit.

I remember playing RTR 6.3 with the Illyrians during this campaign Macedon and the Greeks layed siege every turn and the next one they would ask me to become their protectorate, I just agreed everytime and they would just lay siege to me the very next turn again and repeat the whole thing so I never lost anything and when I became strong enough I wiped them of the map without mercy.

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Originally Posted by Glenn

From what I've seen, so long as one plays on Medium difficulty, the AI is very merciful, and a good ally once you become a protectorate.

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Most of my campaigns are on Medium difficulty(campaign map) and I have to say that the AI does not honour the protectorate at all.

I'm not overly bothered about the disgrace of being a protectorate for just one turn, as you can ask the AI for a bucket of cash, and even cities. Each time the self contradicting AI wants to stump up the goods, it just pays for my new military.

As stated by some above, the AI usually doesn't honor the protectorate. I have just once done this for joke (with XGM a looooong time ago) and I found out you can't really make profit like this. They like, drain your economy. I had about 200.000 denarii and in the next turn it was reduced to 50.000. A real pain, I must tell you. Think about what would happen with EB. Especially forcing the AI to become a protectorate (through FD of course) you get huge amounts of mnai every couple of turns (me thinks) because of the scripted money every AI-controlled faction gets.

Diplomacy fucking blows in RTW. Don't rely on them.

If you want peace, either drive all your enemy factions to total annhiliation or give the neighbouring enemy cities to a distant allied faction. I am all for the latter, because whenever I did this I got peace for several decades. No more headaches facing several stacks of levies from the Gray Death per turn.

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Originally Posted by Slim_Ghost

Diplomacy f------ blows in RTW. Don't rely on them.

If you want peace, either drive all your enemy factions to total annhiliation or give the neighbouring enemy cities to a distant allied faction. I am all for the latter, because whenever I did this I got peace for several decades. No more headaches facing several stacks of levies from the Gray Death per turn.

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I with you Slim_Ghost, on the annhiliation=peace front.
When ever I'm not playing the Seleukids, I always see if I can help them against the yellow death, but whenever I try and give them their cities back the AI always refuses them(So I see if I can get them to rebel back, instead). In fact I often have a problem when I try and gift a city, full stop, it's not like I can't be trusted, or have a bad rep.

Ps, are you allowed to use that naughty 'F' word on these forums???

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Originally Posted by Digby Tatham Warter

In fact I often have a problem when I try and gift a city, full stop, it's not like I can't be trusted, or have a bad rep.

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Give Settlement+ 5000 mnai+ map info. It almost always work.

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Originally Posted by Digby Tatham Warter

Ps, are you allowed to use that naughty 'F' word on these forums???

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It's a pity but it's forbidden even among adults.

USe force diplomacy

protectorates? you kidding me?

I'd rather burn all my own cities to the ground before I become one...

No, no I'm not kidding you at all. If I was, I would be smiling because I can't keep a straight face in those scenarios.

Now, you're all of the opinion then that one cannot force another faction into a protectorate without the Force Diplomacy mod?

I may just borrow that mod once more, and make a rule of forcing factions into protectorates when I have beat them to their last province and they have no notable military.

But it seems everyone disagrees with being placed in chains, although some seem to think that if you accept being a protectorate that you will actually be bound and gagged as a hostage.

Well no, because it's just a game! Experiment say I!

Though I'm not entirely convinced, protectorate relationships usually do rather well inter AI factions.
Consider the usual protectorate that occurs, (Or did in 1.0), with Baktria subduing the Saka. The Saka have eventually in my campaigns, risen up again after 20 years and nearly beaten the Baktrians.

They bide their time very well, but hopefully I will not have to.

The idea behind giving factions of distant regions the conquered settlements is a grand idea also - I will leave Taras to Epeiros, and either give Rhegion to the KH or keep my Roman Piggy Bank there - as a plug to stop Karthago rising out of the plumbing of the underworld.

Not a very good idea making other factions your protectorate. As mentioned, they get large amounts of scripted cash and it's meant for their benefit against you, not for your benefit by this semi-cheat (or full cheat, depending on how you look at it).

[QUOTE=Glenn]I would be smiling because I can't keep a straight face in those scenarios.QUOTE]

I've got nothing to say on the issue, but find it mildly amusing that Glenn's avatar looks like someone trying really hard not to start laughing....

OTOH, it might be fun for role-playing reasons to become the protectorate of the AI, be quiet for a decade or so (if feasible at all) and then launch a full scale rebellion. Nice background for an AAR, I think.

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

OTOH, it might be fun for role-playing reasons to become the protectorate of the AI, be quiet for a decade or so (if feasible at all) and then launch a full scale rebellion. Nice background for an AAR, I think.

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Exactly. This would be really the only reason I might do this, but that also depends on the faction. The Romani for example would NEVER, IMHO, accept to become a protectorate to another faction (see Hannibal's campaign in Italy, they never surrendered to his will).

No, you're right - I just took Arretium, Ariminum, Bononia, Roma, Capua, Segesta and Arpi inside of six turns, and those Romans still won't agree even to a cease fire.

They are now leading huge armies of mace-wielding Illyrians.

Very good idea, someone must do an AAR by creating a situation in which the are at the very pit of survival, and then show a rebellion against their overlords, and hopefully, an eventual change of place.

And Apgad - you may find it mildly amusing also that my Avatar, excepting of course the large steel collar - is a split-image of myself.
In fact - I should be paid for having my face at the head of so many fictional armies in M2TW.

I wonder what nationality my face is in that game..

Once in my Pontic campaing (1.0 or elder) I was beaten badly by Seleucids.

Well to tell the truth it was not only them - I could deal with one enemy but because I made some bad diplomatic decisions (I refused alliance which was offered to me by Ptolies) and because I played on VH campaing difficulty - At one point when I was in a quite successful defensive war against seleucid empire, Ptolies attacked my city (that one in Kappadokia -Mazaka?) and from that point I had to deal with two strong enemies which both were sending lot's of armies into mine teritories - I managed to survive couple of waves of these invaders - by defeating their armies (I was even forced to use bridges as a strong defensive point) but then I was short on money and I could not even put toghether some half-decent army on my defence - So Seleucids offered to be my protector, and I saw no other way I could survive so I had to accept it (and I had to give them Mazaka also) - But this shame of being protectorate gaved me only little time to rest because those damn Seleucids attacked me again only couple of turns after this - and then even Hayasdan declared war on me by attacking Trapezous.

So at the end I had to acknowledge a defeat and I aborted this campaign.

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Originally Posted by Digby Tatham Warter

I with you Slim_Ghost, on the annhiliation=peace front.
When ever I'm not playing the Seleukids, I always see if I can help them against the yellow death, but whenever I try and give them their cities back the AI always refuses them(So I see if I can get them to rebel back, instead). In fact I often have a problem when I try and gift a city, full stop, it's not like I can't be trusted, or have a bad rep.

Ps, are you allowed to use that naughty 'F' word on these forums???

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Play version 1.1. The Seleukids will usually beat the snot out of the Ptolemaoi and the Yellow death becomes the yellow whimper.

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Originally Posted by Glenn

my Avatar, excepting of course the large steel collar - is a split-image of myself...

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What? You don't get dressed up like your avatar to play EB? I always have my hood on :beam:

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Originally Posted by Apgad

What? You don't get dressed up like your avatar to play EB? I always have my hood on :beam:

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I own several ancient helmets, including a Imperial Gallic legionary helmet, a viking spanglehelm(the one with the cheekguards and eye protectors) and some sort of random medieval helmet, I need to find out what it is.

Well, anyway I wear the Imperial Gallic once in a while..

you got a picture of the medieval helm? I might know.

Apgad may have started something here..

Down in Sydney, I've heard of several clubs in the city - full of men who like to dress-up like Gaesatae and wield each other's swords.

Not all of them can afford the helmets though.

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Originally Posted by Glenn

Down in Sydney, I've heard of several clubs in the city - full of men who like to dress-up like Gaesatae and wield each other's swords.

Not all of them can afford the helmets though.

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Hmmm - These Gaesatae should be wearing their helmets, or they might catch something nasty...

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Originally Posted by Xurr

Play version 1.1. The Seleukids will usually beat the snot out of the Ptolemaoi and the Yellow death becomes the yellow whimper.

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Yep, to think of the fact the only thing that keeps them checked is my FD actions... They just took some eastern-most cities, all of Syria, Kypros and most of Anatolia. I had to make Pontos stronger by giving them some cities, as well as the Parthians and giving Syria back to the Ptolies. Anatolia will be mine soon:2thumbsup: