The AI and flank atttacks

In some of my most recent battles I have noticed that the AI has a tendency to attempt to flank with it's entire army, If I deploy my forces in to a strong defensive position for it's liking,but it fails to account for the fact that I can clearly see everything it does,and can re-deploy my forces to counter it's flank attempt.When it sees my forces in the new position it tries to re-deploy again and attack straight-on,with the same result.I've seen it do this for about 5-10 minutes once,before it finally decided to attack me and quit screwing around.Any idea why it does this?

If it makes you redeploy it increases its chances of hitting your line when your formation is disrupted and hence less able to respond :bow:

I'll be a little bold and ask the following:

If you approach the enemy army, and as you get closer, you can see they are in a good position: Do you head straight into them? Or do you try to take your own army into a better angle of attack before charging?

In some cases, particularily in map edge abuse situations, there are no better angles of entry, and after trying to surprise the enemy a couple of times, you just have to go with what you got.

This is what I do, this is what the AI does, and I think it's bloody good AI programming. Yes, sometimes they screw up, but hey! You're the human, fool the machine, feel great! That is (sometimes) a big part of the enjoyment.

/KotR

I find that when attacking, the AI always re-deploys to counter the position of my army. Once, as Sicily versus the Serbians in XL, I was able to get on to level ground rather than have to fight uphill. But only after trying to outflank them. I was able to push them, during the battle (which took place in woodland, so their cavalry were screwed :laugh4:), downhill. Well, to an extent, anyway. But the AI always loves re-deploying to counter my army, always...:sweatdrop:

Well it depends what units the AI is using,but if I feel I can handle them,yes I will charge everything into them,and hope for the best,and it has no hope of hitting when I'm redeploying as it mostly does this on defensive battles so far,when I've been deployed on the biggest hill on the entire map,and can see what it's doing in good time ,so I can redeploy and still have time before they hit me.

For really fun re-deployment battles, go try Cegorach's Pike and Musket mod. I had one particularly memorable battle as Venice when I was invading Genoa. The first half hour of battle consisted of my invading forces stretching along hillsides to gain the advantage, only to have the AI abandon the hill and make hast to a vast plain nears some woods, forcing me to try catching them, before they re-deployed on another hill, forcing me to try to maneuver my way to an even position once again. Eventually, I managed, through having superior numbers, to ambush a couple of their units here and there through the transitions that the AI finally decided it was an un winnable battle, and retreated from the field. Definitely the most memorable 30-40 minute skirmish ever! :2thumbsup:

At least MTW AI flanks, and sometimes it does it pretty cleverly. Here's a few things I've noticed about how the machina thinks, some of them debatable, but that's why we're here, to discuss things... Heh.

Often though, if you have a superior position and limited spear/anti cavalry units the AI will sloowly maneuvre their cavalry units to a flanking position, while other cavalry units screen around the front line. To say the least, this is an interesting "tactic"... Most of the time you see the enemy cavalry quite on time, and can counter them pretty easily. But sometimes their slow-paced "dum da dum" maneuvering catches you by surprise, and you find a pack of blood-thirsty camels hugging the flank of your Feudal Sergeants.

After playing Shogun and Medieval 2, I've grown too bold in my deployment, and had conciderable losses because the AI can exploit micro-sized gaps in your line. These days I keep an infantry reserve as well as a cavalry one just to counter the Muslims managing fiddly but sometimes effective flanking moves.

Funny how differently each game works. Spears are for pinning in all of the games, but in Shogun they cause some casualties to the enemy, especially to enemy cavalry. I guess they're a bit like Muwahid Foot Soldiers... In Medieval, you need something to hammer the enemy horses, and during Early there aren't that many strong anti-cavalry infantry units, so it's mostly horse vs. horse, and of course Archers to whittle them down a bit.

If your army composition is a bit off, then especially cavalry-heavy AI armies can be a tough opponent. Horse Archers with good morale can at times balance some of the AI's problems, and I've had some nice surprises when a HA-heavy Hungarian army tore my spear line apart, and I really had to struggle to win the game. They even charged my units at the right moment - and struck them at their flanks.

I wish they'd flank with melée archers once in a while... Infantry usually doesn't manage to flank, as the AI relies on strong infantry centre and strong cavalry flanks, or flanks units with cavalry through the gaps in the middle after the first impact.

Removing armour bonuses from Armourers make HAs pretty deadly, as their arrows have a chance to penetrate into the flesh once in a while. No more +4 peasants absorbing massive volleys of arrows for me... Then again, no peasants either, so there you go.

But always. Always flanking.

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

If it makes you redeploy it increases its chances of hitting your line when your formation is disrupted and hence less able to respond :bow:

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That's what I've always assumed to be the reason why the AI does that. If the human player is inattentive for even a few moments -- and I freely confess I've been guilty of numerous such lapses over the last 5+ years ~:rolleyes: -- it can be enough for the computer to exploit it to its advantage.

Yeah, the AI can bite your ass when you get inattentive. "Never mind us, we're just having a walk here along your flank!"

The best AI flank attack that I've been on the receiving end went a little like this:

- Outnumbered but higher in command I had two spear and polearm troops in the centre of the army. 2 units of Arbalesters on a hill with a trebuchet and demi-culverin. My single cavalry unit was a an 8* general with royal knights.

The AI was very cavalry heavy and had 3 units of FMAA in the centre. I kept back the halberdiers with the arbalesters and flanked the AI centre with my own cavalry, it was all going so well until... My Halberdiers were suddenly routing into the centre of the melee and the arbalesters and seige engines overrun by 2 units of mounted sergeants and one of feudal knights, these had broken from cover of woodland without my knowing and decimated my back line. Very sneaky.

The battle AI in M:TW is much more satisfying than the A"I"s of Rome and M2. However, you can use some of its typical tactics to your advantage. For example, I used to have a rigid line of spearmen/similar out front, to protect my missile troops, who made up the second line and fired over the spearmen. Standard deployment, with cav on the wings. Often though, right after impact on the main line, some sneaky AI infantry or cavalry came flanking my main spear line. Great, I flank them again with my cav, no problem, they break and flee.

This has happened so often I think the AI flanks a little too readily. I've come to rely on the fact that the AI seeks to flank you with cav, but also with inf that has a good charge value. The AI even uses spearmen to flank more often than MAA, even though their charge total (combined attack+charge) is lower than that of those! I think it relies wholly on the charge value.

Once you've come to expect AI flanking, you can play some really silly tricks on it. Form a long, long line, and the AI has to break it's army really far apart in order to flank. Constrict your army before contact (while the flanker units are still ambling about in the outer left/right field), and the AI will try to respond. You can gradually have your units form a semicircle or constrict even more, the AI will still try to get around it so it can flank your outermost units. And all the while your missile blows them to bits!

I had such a battle just recently, me (Sicilians, VI 2.01 vanilla, GA, H) vs. Egyptians. I had an army consisting mostly of Order Foot, Archers, some ragtag Royal Guards and two units of Hospitallers. They had an almost all-camel army (FEAR THE CAMEL!!!), however, so my cav was more or less useless. Thus being greatly inferior in numbers and having to protect my cav, I formed the Order Foot in a long, thin row. Camels get slaughtered by Order Foot head on regardless how thinly deployed, so the tried to flank. I pulled my outermost Order Foot in, formed a bend, then a hook in my flank, and still the camels tried to take the long way 'round. All this time my archers shot them to bits. I also did a bit of luring with my cav (faster than camels), and led them on a merry chase in front of my archers. The AI, seeking flanking and a good matchup, forgot about its numeric superiority and caved to heavy archer fire!

I had a nice one just earlier this evening. Vastly outnumbering the Eggs with my Italian/bribed Egg army. Going to forward pin with nubians and flank with camels while holding my MAA in reserve. I'm attacking, though, and my spears are at the back of the formation at the start. I do the ghost setup far out and ctrl-T. The AI notices that my spears are way back and charges right in. I was having my coffee at the time and, so, not paying due attention reacted slowly to this move. I lost. To a move that was exactly what they needed to win an outmatched battle like that. :oops:

One of the things that makes playing the battles in MTW so interesting is the AI's use of flanking attacks and repositioning its armies to make things difficult for the player. You try and use good ground for cover, it will attempt to nullify the advantage the terrain affords you by approaching your forces from another angle. You try and do the same when it's on the defense, and it will manoeuvre it's army again to attempt to retain all the advantage it can. Sure once you play many battles you learn sneaky tactics and good ways to thwart the AI, but it can still give you a hard time.

This is in stark contrast to the AI in RTW which will gladly give up it's strong defensive position should you decide to attack it from the flank. I've had AI armies camping on a strong hill that I've approached from the side which results in the AI redeploying it's forces so they're downhill, facing upwards. Which is a sign of madness. It's amazing how much better the AI is in earlier TW games.