Indian army wants military space program

As always I have one eye on the far east, sure most of the hub bub is in the middle east but the annointed budding super powers from time to time sneeze, and we get stuff like this.

"India urgently needs to "optimize space applications for military purposes," Gen. Deepak Kapoor said Monday at a conference in New Delhi on using space for military purposes.

He noted that "the Chinese space program is expanding at an exponentially rapid pace in both offensive and defensive content." His remarks were first reported by The Indian Express newspaper and confirmed by the Defense Ministry's spokesman on Tuesday."

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Indian army wants military space program By GAVIN RABINOWITZ, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 28 minutes ago



India said that it needs a military space program to defend its satellites from threats like China's newly revealed ability to shoot down targets in orbit.

The comments by India's army chief raise the possibility of a regional race that could accelerate the militarization of space and heighten tensions between the Asian giants, who have been enjoying their warmest ties in decades.

India urgently needs to "optimize space applications for military purposes," Gen. Deepak Kapoor said Monday at a conference in New Delhi on using space for military purposes.

He noted that "the Chinese space program is expanding at an exponentially rapid pace in both offensive and defensive content." His remarks were first reported by The Indian Express newspaper and confirmed by the Defense Ministry's spokesman on Tuesday.

China destroyed one of its own defunct weather satellites with a ballistic missile in January, becoming the third country, after Russia and the U.S., to shoot down an object in orbit.

In February the United States shot down a satellite that it said posed a threat as it fell to Earth. Kapoor did not mention that, singling out China in a statement analysts said was designed to send a clear message to Beijing.

"In an unsubtle way this is related to China," said Ashok Mehta, a retired Indian army general and leading strategic analyst.

Kapoor said that while militarization of space by India was at "a comparatively nascent stage," there was an urgent need for a military space command for "persistent surveillance and rapid response."

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Anil Kumar Mathur said, "We are not talking about deploying weapons, but about self-defense." Neither man elaborated on their remarks.

The Indian military does not have its own dedicated spy satellites and uses civilian ones to gather imagery and other intelligence. India has an advanced civilian space program and frequently launches both types of satellites for other countries, including an Israeli spy satellite in January.

Other Indian generals speaking at the conference said a military space race was almost certain.

"With time we will get sucked into a military race to protect our space assets and inevitably there will be a military contest in space," the Indian Express newspaper quoted Lt. Gen. H.S. Lidder as saying.

"In a life-and-death scenario, space will provide the advantage," said Lidder, who heads the military department that deals with space technology.

Ties between India and China — which together have one-third of the world's population — are at their closest since China defeated India in a brief 1962 border war. Last year, trade between India and China grew to $37 billion and their two armies conducted their first joint military exercise.

However, the two nations remain sharply divided over territorial claims dating back to the war. China claims India's northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh and occupies a chunk of territory in Kashmir that Indian regards as its own.

Talks on the disputed border have gone nowhere, and Kapoor's "statement is in relation to what is happening on the border dispute and the Chinese taking an uncompromising position," Mehta said.

This, along with China's heavy military spending and a growing rivalry for regional influence, has alarmed the Indian military, which has been increasingly gearing up for possible conflict.

India has announced plans to have aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines at sea in the next decade and recently tested nuclear-capable missiles that put China's major cities well in range. It is also reopening air force bases near the Chinese border

Wonder if the Japanese are still contemplating changing their pacifist constitution? :idea2:

Barack Obama has pledged not to militarize space.

So the question is: will we be 4 years or 8 behind the other major powers?

Sorry to relate this to the Election, Odin, if that wasn't where you wanted to take it. :bow:

The day the Indians say "we need to got Mars", I'd be really interested.

Anyhow, all the Asian interest in space could lead us to a new space era...or it could not. :book:

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Wonder if the Japanese are still contemplating changing their pacifist constitution?

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They have been investing in military/space programs for years and they havn't had a pacifist constitution since MacArthur went to Korea .

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Barack Obama has pledged not to militarize space.

So the question is: will we be 4 years or 8 behind the other major powers?

Sorry to relate this to the Election, Odin, if that wasn't where you wanted to take it. :bow:

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China probably wouldn't be expanding their program if the US wasn't. If China doesn't expand then India doesn't. I shall revert to my second of two standard things to blame:

I blame America.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

China probably wouldn't be expanding their program if the US wasn't. If China doesn't expand then India doesn't. I shall revert to my second of two standard things to blame:

I blame America.

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Oh yeah? Well I blame Communism.

Better dead than Red!

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

Oh yeah? Well I blame Communism.

Better dead than Red!

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It would seem that I am beaten. Well played sir :bow:

Albert Einstein once said "I know not what weapons will be used to fight the third world war, but the one after that will be fought with sticks and stones"

Really, it's just a logical progression for these two emerging economic dynamos. Both are merely looking out for their interests. I find some parallels to the development of aircraft technologies both before and during WWI. The whole invention of the fighter-plane was to shoot down an enemies' observation capability, ie. observation balloons and photo-reconnaissance aircraft. After a modest beginning with pilots shooting at each other with revolvers and sling shots, it wasn't long until the fighter became a sophisticated tool of aerial warfare.

I can understand why India would want to protect it's burgeoning communications satellite capability. They are making a mint in the area of telecommunications services. Call any computer or cell phone 1-800-I need help and you are likely to be talking to a Hindi person, as so many international companies use their quite affordable services. I should take measures to protect this business worth billions if I were one in charge of such things.

:logic:

i basically consider India to be part of the Anglosphere, so I say more power to them.

We (India) always seem to think there is an imminent threat from China...though not as much as pakistan... i guess we cant afford to fall too much behind China...

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Originally Posted by atheotes

We (India) always seem to think there is an imminent threat from China...though not as much as pakistan... i guess we cant afford to fall too much behind China...

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Understandable. I know this is off subject a bit, but why doesn't India just crush Pakistan? It's quite evident that they are harboring terrorists and allowing the Madrasas to preach their particular brand of hatred for all things not muslim. Is it the difficulty of the terrain? The Strength of Pakistinian forces? Surely it can't be that the Indian army does not outnumber and outclass that of Pakistan?

nucular weapons in a word.

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Originally Posted by Furunculu5

nucular weapons in a word.

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That and it would be a pain to occupy.

I appologize for my absence in this thread.

@PJ I dont have a problem if a thread I start goes down a certain path, mods might but by all means I welcome all view points even though I might disagree with some people 95% of the time there is a 5% chance I could be enlightened.

My point to posting this was I like to keep a watchful eye on asia, in 25 years thats where I think the action will be. 2 budding super powers who crave dwindling resources, a massive japanese economy with a shrinking workforce and a dependancy on a foreign military. North Korean issue, the U.S. transferring command of its south korean bases and forces and fazing out.

So China tests space military tech and india follows suit right along. Might not be a full fledged arms race but I remember a movie I saw a few years ago called "Red Dawn" about a fictious russian invasion of the U.S.

Anyway there was a great line from the movie that explained why the US and Russia went to war "Eventually the two toughest kid on the bloc are going to fight"

Now if those two kids are in need of raw materials that are restricted by the consumption of others and there own growth I wonder....

Again, the middle east is the place to be now, but stay tuned I would say 2030ish?

I agree entirely Odin. The far east is becoming a hotbed of potential conflict again, this time with China as the possible aggressor. I can't think of India becoming so, as they have always been such a pacifist nation at heart. Don't get me wrong, they have and will defend themselves very ably, but India is not culturally disposed to conquer. What stance Japan will take is a good question. I think that they'll wait and see what support they can get from the United States. They will surely take steps to protect their space vehicles at the least. As for increasing the size of their navy? Hmm...that would be interesting no?

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Originally Posted by rotorgun

Understandable. I know this is off subject a bit, but why doesn't India just crush Pakistan?

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Why doesn't the USA crush it?

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Originally Posted by Conradus

Why doesn't the USA crush it?

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Why doesn't Australia... oh... never mind...

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Originally Posted by rotorgun

I agree entirely Odin. The far east is becoming a hotbed of potential conflict again, this time with China as the possible aggressor. I can't think of India becoming so, as they have always been such a pacifist nation at heart. Don't get me wrong, they have and will defend themselves very ably, but India is not culturally disposed to conquer. What stance Japan will take is a good question. I think that they'll wait and see what support they can get from the United States. They will surely take steps to protect their space vehicles at the least. As for increasing the size of their navy? Hmm...that would be interesting no?

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Couple of things:

1. Tribesman is right Japan continues a steady investment in their military but Im not convienced that collectively as a nation they have adequately shifted their mindset on military expenditures to become offensive. Maybe pacifist was the wrong term, but there reliance on american military projection handicaps them in the current far east arms race.

2. China as the aggressor, a few years ago I might have believed that but there has recently been reconcilliation efforts with Taiwan. No nothing major but there was recently an agreement to increase travel and a less nationalist leader on the island. I dont have proper links(digging required) its a small story but taiwan was always what I thought would be the flash point.

3. India has unresloved territorial claims against china, for which they have faught a war over already. Wiki on the war. india might not be an aggressor but given the contraction of resources in the world it wouldnt surprise me to see a proxy war in africa? Peace keeper mission in africa (you know starting with observers ala Vietnam). Likely? I dont think so but in 25 years we should be nearing 8 billion people most of which will be in these two countries. How do you sustain growth for such mamoth population when you dont have enough raw materials in your own borders?

4. Korea: On a side note here Im not convineced the north is finished causing problems, at some point someone is going to have to supply them. The chinese have played this brilliantly so far they have enduced the U.S. to offer more carrots, on our dime. The chinese know that the north's posturing is for defensive purposes only they wont go on the offensive. So someone has to pay to keep them afloat, some of that will fall on china, but south korea will pick up a lot of the tab.

The U.S. has a pending phased withdrawl plan for the korean pennisula and as long as the North keeps trickling out things we want to here we will pay them with resources and withdraw. What does that mean? one of these far east countries is going to have to prop up the regime and handle transitions, potential coups, and rebellions.

Anyway the Far east is never a juicy topic because it hasnt been defined yet as to what the end game is like the middle east has, but in our lifetime something in this region will affect the global community more so then just manufacture of goods and trade.

haha, read Chung Kuo by David Wingrove.

Furunculu5, could you elaborate a bit more on this book Chung Kuo? I've never heard of it before.

I've been reading a bit on the subject, and it seems to me that if China and India were to have a go at it, there are some severe logistical problems specifically for China. They have this Giant mass of Frozen Wilderness to the North of them called Siberia, and Siberia is Russian territory. Russia has always proven itself relentless, and even though Russia isn't the power it once was, I expect to see a burgeoning Russian Military in the next couple of decades, especially if Putinism doesn't falter. So China is sitting in a strategic land mine. Russia and India are known to "talk" once and awhile, so if China goes for India they have to deal with Russia to the north, if China goes for Russia, they may have to deal with India in the south. Especially if dwindling resources are the problem. And if indeed thats what these countries are fighting for, I'd say the safe bet in bountiful resources lie in Siberia, not India.
I'm beginning to think you may see a warming trend between Russia and China for the next couple of years, and then it will turn deadly cold. Once China begins losing it's own resources, and Africa can't supply efficiently enough, China may begin looking hungrily to the North, and they don't have to necessarily worry about who has enough manpower, Russia will always lose in that struggle. OTOH, Russia has a much longer and more respected military tradition, whereas as far as I'm concerned India's is rather just blossoming in the 21st Century... so it's a hard call, but if I were forced to make a decision between the two, I'd pick Siberia.

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Originally Posted by rotorgun

Furunculu5, could you elaborate a bit more on this book Chung Kuo? I've never heard of it before.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chung_Kuo