Koinon Hellon Generals Suck on Walls?

So I did a migration faction. Took my ass from Athens and sailed to Massalia, and renamed myself Masalia. It's tons of fun except for one problem. The Romans are aggressive as hell! Nonstop attacks and they somehow kicked out the Gauls and Epeiros out of Taras quickly and just focus on me. Had to use FD to bring some control back to the region.

Anyways back to my question. Is it just me or do the Koinon Hellon Spartan and Athen body gaurds suck on the walls? Maybe I am just using them wrong. I put them on guard mode in front of the leaders. Triari popped up and started pushing my bodygaurds back. I had a group of heavy skirmishers hit the Trairi from the other side and they stll managed to defeat my general and heavy skirmishers.

On the other side of the gate, I had a spartan group hold ground on defense mode in front of a siege tower loaded with Elite Italian unit. My Spartans got completely toast.

Are they just not a good unit for defending walls or am I using them wrong? This migration to Massalia has left me with no money to field an army. Best I could do is use my 4FM's+1 Cretan Archer+1 Heavy Skirmisher. And this is with 3 towns in control =-/

Pedites Extraordinarii have an AP weapon, so it's not wonder they did well, however the triarii ought to have been no match for your elites. Maybe it's related to guard mode? It makes individual soldiers unwilling to attack in my experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ludens

Pedites Extraordinarii have an AP weapon, so it's not wonder they did well, however the triarii ought to have been no match for your elites. Maybe it's related to guard mode? It makes individual soldiers unwilling to attack in my experience.

---

I figured the elites should do well, although in a previous battle, my general unit held together for a very long time out in the open being sandwiched by two of these elite units.

I took off guard mode once I started taking heavy casualties, so I had Heavy Skirmishers and General with guard mode off hitting both sides of the Triari and still failed.

Weaksauce :inquisitive:

In my experience any unit of hoplitai suck big time on walls... better let them take the walls and take 'em down in the streets, especially your generals' hoplitai as well as the Spartiatai kick ass there.

On walls you need heavy infantry to hold them off, if they are not avaible, spearmen are okay too up there. Skirmishers and hoplitai and such get steamrolled in my experience...
Best thing to have is some Galatikoi Tindanotae or comparing "wild men". After I took whole Asia Minor with the KH I was sieged by the AS after taking Antiocheia from them. They had about 2000 men attacking, I had less than 500...luckily several bands of Kretan Archers, some hoplitai and two Galatikoi Tindanotae mercenaries...

Well, after my Kretan archers had shot all their ammo and all javelins were thrown, there still were MANY enemies left running towards me with one siege tower and multiple ladders, where I stationed my Galatikoi Tindanotae on the walls. In the end every single enemy who put foot on the wall was quickly slayed, usually before the next one was up and before doing one blow themselves...in the end I killed about 1,500 men and had losses of about 100 men (too many ladders, not enough heavy infantry....they slashed my archers down before they could run away :( )

In my experience, you need sword-wielding troops on the walls, both attackers and defenders. Gives best results.

Can only think of three things.
1: Your playing with the battle difficulty up as it's make the enemy uber.
2: Enemy generals have loads of stars and making their troops fight harder.
3: The enemy troops are experienced.

NEVER EVER put inf-based generals on walls.

all it takes is one nudge or a sling bullet on the shield, or a simple prod, and your general will fly down the walls....

D=

tha same could be said for siege towers...

what difficulty level are you using for battles?

I've done very well KH generals on walls as well as other hoplite units on medium diff. I held athens with the starting army against 3 Mak half stacks just by keeping my hoplites guarding the walls, they decimated they mak infantry with few casualties (though that was mostly peltasts, phalangites, and levy hoplites they sent against me, not really sword infantry).

Also never put an inf unit directly in front of a siege tower. What I do put 2 units off to the sides of where they will come out of the tower. When they come out, attack with 1 unit, wait for the enemy to then turn their rear to your other unit, then attack. If you put a unit in front of the tower, when they come out they will face both sides so you can't hit their rear. Also don't use defensive mode on walls.

Considering the OP's core-regions should all offer an abundant supply of those hefty .225 Gallic swords, I suppose one could hire some (comparatively) cheap mercs to do the Triarii killing.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I guess I'll take the advice of only putting up sword wielding badasses on the walls!

I played on H/M, I was roleplaying with Massalia, and expanding VERY slowly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Considering the OP's core-regions should all offer an abundant supply of those hefty .225 Gallic swords, I suppose one could hire some (comparatively) cheap mercs to do the Triarii killing.

---

Would of definitely done this except I was making about 800 gold a turn with 3 cities and no army beside some levy troops to garrison other 2 settlements.

Luckily, the game crashed during this horrible siege so I reloaded it and played the battle differently. With some FD and money cheats to enemies, I was able to stop the Roman early explosive expansion. (I put Carthage in Segesta and they are STILL allies to each other...weird. It's 250bc and they have yet to declare war even once.

I like recruiting Massalian hoplites for role playing purposes. They work as pretty well on the flanks with their Celtic long swords.

When defending walls, I learned and found that guard mode OFF is better. I learned this from days I played with ERE in BI. Guarde mode off and your army will swarm to every enemy trying to set foot on your walls. If the enemy sent light troops using ladders, they don't stand a chance with your medium sword or spear men.

My previous KH campaign with Maks siege at Athena, 2 big siege battle, outnumber 1:3. 2 heroic victories. Defenders are hoplites and FM guard mode off, on the walls with support of cretan archers and some peltasts. If the enemies using ladders, they don't stand a chance. But facing siege towers, a little bit harder. Although I lost 4 FM with the 2 siege battle.

I can one up the last post: turn the guard mode off and right click on a point behid the enemy. if you have sword wielding men, they'll swrn trough an enemy formation and break it. once the formation is brocken, right clisk on the unit you've disorganized. all heck will break loose on the enemy. ot great on the streets BTW.