Agoge questions

Three questions relating to the Spartan agoge:

1) Which faction can have family members undergo the agoge? Just the western and eastern Greek factions or also Eastern ones like Pontos and Pahlava?

2) What type of government is required in Sparta if you want family members to undergo the agoge? I recall reading somewhere that for factions other than the KH it needs to be either type III or type IV, but someone told me it works under type II as well.

3) Why do the Spartan starting characters lack agoge-related traits? Is this to indicate that the Agoge has been suspended for some time and they have only just started it again?

1- Western Greek and Eastern Greek only, IIRC.
2- Any government should be fine.
3- There probably just weren't any edits done to the starting traits when the Agoge was first added to EB.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Three questions relating to the Spartan agoge:

1) Which faction can have family members undergo the agoge? Just the western and eastern Greek factions or also Eastern ones like Pontos and Pahlava?

2) What type of government is required in Sparta if you want family members to undergo the agoge? I recall reading somewhere that for factions other than the KH it needs to be either type III or type IV, but someone told me it works under type II as well.

3) Why do the Spartan starting characters lack agoge-related traits? Is this to indicate that the Agoge has been suspended for some time and they have only just started it again?

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I was just about to ask these same questions, in reference to my current Eiperos Campaign: namely: what government, and whether Eiperos can even go through the Agoge.... I look forward to the answers :juggle2:

I know from experience that KH, Maks and Epis can use it. But which factions count as Eastern Greeks in this case? For example, can Pontos, Seles, Ptolies and Baktrians all use the Agoge? It seems quite odd somehow that they would send their young halfway across the world for training.

Eastern Greeks= Only Seleucids, Ptolemaics, and Baktrians I'm almost positive.

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Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

1- Western Greek and Eastern Greek only, IIRC.
2- Any government should be fine.
3- There probably just weren't any edits done to the starting traits when the Agoge was first added to EB.

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Thanks for the answers. Will these traits be included in EB 1.2?

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Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

Eastern Greeks= Only Seleucids, Ptolemaics, and Baktrians I'm almost positive.

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Correct. Pontos are Hellenized easterners, nor eastern Hellenes.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Thanks for the answers. Will these traits be included in EB 1.2?

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Only if someone can come up with how well they actually performed in the Agoge, I think. I suppose it would be pretty much as correct to say that all performed adequately as it is to say they didn't go through it, but a lacking trait at least doesn't convey any false information.

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Originally Posted by bovi

Only if someone can come up with how well they actually performed in the Agoge, I think. I suppose it would be pretty much as correct to say that all performed adequately as it is to say they didn't go through it, but a lacking trait at least doesn't convey any false information.

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I have more questions, sadly...

I'm wondering how exactly the Agoge works. I currently have a Lev 2 government as Epieros in Sparta, with the faction heir who conquered the city in it...aaand nothing's happening. Does it work that it needs a smaller level government (3 or 4), or does it only work for new family members that come of age? Or does it work so that the general who conquers the city can't complete it, due to scripting?

Only new family members who come of age.

Thanks for the answer, Bovi.

The family member has to have the "youthful" trait: so he must be younger than 20 and cannot be adopted or married into the family. Adoptees and suitors always start out as "man grown", regardless of age. (Unfortunately the trait cannot see the characters actual age, and since adoptees can be anything from 20 to 60 years old, it was decided to give them the rather neutral "man grown" trait.)

i am using KH, what does the agoge do in the long run? does it help them become better? because i have a giant family of tools, and i send them all to train.

It gives a small military boost as well as encouraging the aquisition of benefitial military traits and ancillaries.

After they complete the agoge the script says that he can go to Sparta (If he is a spartan) and be elected to I don't know what... Is this true? Does he evolve further if he is a spartan? And can he have spartan hoplites bodyguards? I'm a newbie in EB :shame:

They won't get any spartans as body guards.

I've had a few in my current campaign go through the kryptia, some sort of secret service thing.

What traits does that benefit, if any, in later life?

he gets command bonuses...makes him a pretty darn good general and stuff. Dun tell him to govern a city tho...killing helots for fun does magical things to one's mind...

Heh, yeah I guess it does... For those who are interested in training your sons in the Spartan Agoge, my advice would be to send only those who take after their fathers, who in turn should be at least able generals. Also, the best young you could chose to undergo the Agoge would be those who are Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous. This will make them perform better. If you send someone more philosophicaly inclined, bookish or the like, he will probably not benefit at all. I once got one who had goten after his father (ex-governor of Athenai, max management and influence) and he barely made out the Agoge. He then became pessimistic and got some horrible traits. So just be careful when experimenting :wink:

Maion

Languorous people might not perform so well.

Does anybody know whether people with some traits are more likely to be a Krypteia member than others? I can think that traits as 'sly' would come in handy there.

Requirements:

Code:

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Trigger Finished_Spartan_Agoge_Starts_Krypteia
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition Trait SpartanAgoge = 2
          and EndedInSettlement
          and SettlementName Sparte
          and Trait Spartiates > 0
          and Trait NaturalEnergy > 2
          and Trait NaturalIntelligence > 2
          and Trait Loyalty > 2

  Affects AgogeKrypteia  10  Chance  100
  Affects AgogeScriptFlag  2  Chance  100

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Just finished Agoge training in Sparta
Is a Spartan (IE not another Greek)
Sharp, vital and loyal


Here's a fine conceptual diagram that Teleklos created when he made the stuff.

https://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9257/agoge1hd7.gif