You are safer without a knife

http://www.insight-security.com/fact...rime-stats.htm

So, criminologists believe that if you do not carry a knife, then you are less likely to be stabbed? Mr. Brown was on the BBC talk show "The One Show" saying exactly the same thing.

Is it just me or is this logic slightly flawed? Forget my comments in recent threads, because my inner ned/chav is telling me that this makes no sense. Obviously the majority of people that get stabbed come from areas where crime is a big problem, and so they are for more likely to get stabbed. If someone pulls a knife out on you, surely it would be sensible to have one on you just in case? Presuming you are a sensible person, you will only use it if you have to.

How such idiotic comments are going to reduce knife crime is beyond me. The only people who listen to such comments are likely to be the more law-abiding youths who carry knifes solely for the purpose of self defense.

But I am always told I am a ned so maybe I am biased. Can someone back me up on this?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

If someone pulls a knife out on you, surely it would be sensible to have one on you just in case?

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No, the sensible thing is to run.

That's the point of this, when you're carrying a knife on you, you're less likely to run away from danger, and instead seek it.

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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How such idiotic comments are going to reduce knife crime is beyond me. The only people who listen to such comments are likely to be the more law-abiding youths who carry knifes solely for the purpose of self defense.

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How such idiotic comments ignore that youths who carry knives for self defense are not law-abiding .

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So, criminologists believe that if you do not carry a knife, then you are less likely to be stabbed?

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Thats because the average dickhead who pulls a knife will end up with one or several glasses in the face (remember kids always give a nice friendly twist to the glass once it impacts on the idiot that thought his knife might save him from a beating) , its amazing how producing a blade can escalate a bad situation into a terrible one isn't it .

I wouldn't carry a knife unless I knew how to use it in combat. And I live in an area where there's fairly little crime, so I don't feel the need to go armed in any manner.

Actually I almost always carry a knife in the form of a multitool, guess I'm used to it from trekking. Strange world that a man can no longer carry the tool of tools.

If you are a reasonable person without a temper then you would obviously not use the knife unless you were about to get one in your face anyway.

I don't know. People in Poland generally do not carry on knives.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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Will a knife really save your life in such a situation?

Depends on how many chevrons you have and what your stats are :tongue2:

That aside, if everyone didn't carry a knife, then yes, people would be safer - because when you get angry at someone you can't pull out a knife at them.

Of course there's other non conventional weapons as well, but that's beside the point right? :angel:

Well, the problem is that if one nutcase carries a knife, whether its to aid him in crime or just to look cool, everyone else in in danger.

And unless you have some Chuck Norris style roundhouse kicks up your sleeve, then the person with the knife will have a big advantage when it comes to attacking you.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Depends on how many chevrons you have and what your stats are :tongue2:

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And don't forget your animations of course. Two handed weapons are only useful against mounted opponents (ie on a bicycle).

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

No, the sensible thing is to run.

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Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

Plus, I think you are all forgetting something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQFYceNZS8

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You run faster with a knife!!11

It's the same old song and dance. The same statistic applies to people who carry a firearm.

The numbers are skewed heavily by the people who carry knives and illegal firearms for the purpose of engaging in criminal activities. Petty criminals, gang members, mobsters, etc. are obviously at greater risk of being wounded or killed than the rest of us, as are those unarmed citizens that they prey upon.

A far more useful statistic would be for people who have no criminal records (as well as those who have never been arrested or arrested & not convicted) who resorted to the use of firearms or knives to defend themselves against thieves, rapists & the like.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

And don't forget your animations of course. Two handed weapons are only useful against mounted opponents (ie on a bicycle).

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This is actually a very good point that you and Fractionhair made, and why just about everyone so far is wrong.

Everyone knows you run faster with the knife.

:creep::whip:

:balloon2:

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Actually I almost always carry a knife in the form of a multitool, guess I'm used to it from trekking. Strange world that a man can no longer carry the tool of tools.

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It is perfectly legal to carry a knife as a tool .

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And unless you have some Chuck Norris style roundhouse kicks up your sleeve, then the person with the knife will have a big advantage when it comes to attacking you.

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No offence* Caledonian but on this subject experience wise have you any idea what you are talking about ?(*no offence because getting through life without too many dodgy events and having to do nasty things to people isn't a bad thing at all)

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

No offence* Caledonian but on this subject experience wise have you any idea what you are talking about ?(*no offence because getting through life without too many dodgy events and having to do nasty things to people isn't a bad thing at all)

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OK, I'll take the bait. What point are you driving at here Tribes?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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If they outnumber you six to one it's madness to stand and fight anyway. Your best bet is still running.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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Running sounds sensible in theory (provided you're fast enough... and lucky enough to get away). However running before an aggressor has the unfortunate side effect of triggering that primal bloodlust that we semi-hairless primates have employed since our earliest historical accounts. The history of warfare (particularly in the pre-gunpowder era) is littered with countless accounts of battles turning into bloodbaths because one side routed and the other gave chase and cut down those attempting to flee. In many battles more lives were lost during routs than when one side retreated sensibly or attempted to surrender.

There is something about the extreme decision to fight to the bitter end or take flight that leads to truly bloody ends. If some low IQ, aggressive criminal type is intent on doing you harm then triggering or amplifying their predatorial instincts by turning tail probably isn't a good idea.

I don’t know, recently there has been lots of police activities in my school (I live in London), you got people giving lectures about not carry to knifes, showing us nasty pictures about what knifes can do and threatening us with 6 years in prison (max.) if caught with a knife, no matter what reason. On average a person get killed (stabbed, mostly teenagers) every 2 weeks in London. Of course the law abiding people don’t carry knifes, but I don’t see the point if everybody was to carry a knife for self-defence, surely the death-rate would be much higher that way. Anyway I don’t think carrying a knife makes you any safer than not carrying one, the only thing I see is that you’d be dead, but at least you would have taken some of them with you.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

No, the sensible thing is to run.

That's the point of this, when you're carrying a knife on you, you're less likely to run away from danger, and instead seek it.

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I totally agree with you on this one.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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So you’re saying that you stand more of a chance in that situation with a knife rather than a pair of fast legs.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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I don't know about running but FWIW back in the day my karate sensei was always very clear that the best thing to do if it looks like its kicking off is to leave if you can.

And that was from someone who didn't need a knife to kick yo ass.

That's about all the karate I remember now, but I still think its sound advice.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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I’d run if they got knifes, but it wouldn’t be wise to run if they got nothing, even if there’re six of them. The worst you get is a beating, but if you stand your ground then they probably wouldn’t give you much trouble in the future. But it’s much more different with a knife, run and you get stabbed, stay and you get stabbed too. The only other option is you stay and give them what they want, which is really the worst option of all of them.

Backing off slowly, showing that you're not going to be easy pickings if push does come to shove, seems to me the most productive. In that situation a knife, or anything solid at hand would be helpful. Running or fighting - well, unless someone's entirely confident in the ability to do either, is a bit of a gamble.

Course, the more dangerous muggers don't like to let it come to that. I'd guess they prefer the first the victim knows of them to be when they initiate physical contact. And if they're in a group and you're alone, pretty much in trouble anyway.

I do have a little experience, and it tells me that you do not run from neds. I've never had a situation where I've been in a (gang v gang) fight or a M2TW style chain rout, but from my little experience what tends to happen is a mutual backing off. Neds don't like to act if the odds aren't 4:1 in their favour (thats "Victory is a distinct possibility" for them to the rest of us here).

Seriously, neds are 90% talk. I'm no tough guy, but I've watched too many ancient-era war movies and I tend to get fatalistic and think that weak as I am I may as well take as many out with me as possible. But its never come to that, thankfully.

Never, ever run from neds (I am talking about chavs here for the rest of Britain, not sure for equivalents around the world). They act like packs of dogs, one goes hounding after you and the rest will follow. Its never happened to me thanks to a pretty sheltered upbringing, but I have heard this from my friends. And middle-class as I am, living in the area I do you will at some point run into trouble.

Ultimately, for some reason I've always been far more terrified of getting into trouble with the authorities (whether they be a teacher, the police, or whatever) than actually having a scrap. Maybe such discipline has served me well, because on the occassions that could have left to trouble I've (with my friends) held the ground without getting aggresive and its basically led to both sides backing off, the neds hurling insults as if they won obviously.

And then it always leads to stupid jokes because my private school friends think I am a ned.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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If somebody has a knife (even if you have one too) the sensible thing is to run.

When we did this training in the army, the first thing the knife instructor said was something along these lines: "Here is a universal truth: if you get in a knife fight, you are going to get cut. The guy who wins the knife fight is the guy who is best able to to see the sight of his own blood without going into shock."

To demonstrate, at the end of a week in which we had been doing nothing but practicing all kinds of fancy knife-fighting techniques for 7 hours per day, he let us "spar." He would take two guys, put them in the ring, hand them each a red magic marker, tell them to take off their shirts, and say "Okay troops, have at 'er."

Within about 5 seconds each fighter's torso and arms were covered with ink. And most of the wounds represented by those ink marks would have been more than most people would have been able to stand without freaking out.

This crap you see in the movies where guys are dancing around gracefully, parrying and slashing, is complete and utter crap. Get in a knife fight, you're going to get cut.

The reason I ask is because in my experience people usually have a stake in a conflictuous situation and feel that they can't afford to run. What have the sensei's of the world to say about that?

And if you get into a knife fight without a knife, then you are also going to get cut.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

The reason I ask is because in my experience people usually have a stake in a conflictuous situation and feel that they can't afford to run. What have the sensei's of the world to say about that?

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There are only two possible reasons not to run:

1) You are absolutely certain the other person can outrun you, so you are better off not turning your back on him and you might as well try your luck fighting

2) You are with somebody else who won't be able to get away, so by running you would be abandoning them to certain death

Anything else is nothing but pride.

We're not talking about the military here, you don't need to organise a systematic retreat.

These gangs sniff out fear, if you run you spur them on, half the time they're only causing trouble for fun. If you are confident you can outrun them then obviously do so. But if you run and get caught with your back turned then you could be in deep trouble.

You are best to hold your ground and hope they back off. If they do not, it is much better to have a weapon than not to. It is of course a last resort.

In all honesty, knife crime is mostly caused by drunken idiots consumed in their pride.

But for non-drunkards, gangs are your main threat.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

There are only two possible reasons not to run:

1) You are absolutely certain the other person can outrun you, so you are better off not turning your back on him and you might as well try your luck fighting

2) You are with somebody else who won't be able to get away, so by running you would be abandoning them to certain death

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Those two things are uncertain in most situations. So that's no guideline.

Me and a friend were waiting for a night bus around 1.00 am once, many moons ago, on a deserted road outside a village. It was the last bus, and I had to be home that night. We were 17 years old. Two guys about the same age and build as us came walking down the road and one of them started waving a knife at us, demanding money for their bus fare. We retreated, talked, 'negotiated', feigned to shrug the whole thing off - until the arrival of the bus saved us. Then the other guys ran, fearing that we or the bus driver would alert the police.

Of course we could have run. Or we could have been dead. Or we could have wrung the knife from the guy´s hand. Whatever.

I'm just telling you that in such situations nothing is clear-cut except for this: most senseis talk bollox (with compliments to Tribesman).