Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

Ok, please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me that CA in its infinite wisdom did not consider worth the while to correct the bugged 2H animations even with 3 patches for M2TW till date :inquisitive:, or is their some other unknown factor that I am ignorant of ??

The reason I am inquiring with regard to this is due to an anomaly in my present campaign. I have
M2TW patched up tp 1.2 and am playing DLV 4.0PE- no other modifications. Yesterday in my HRE game, I sieged Breslau, and during the assault my 4 dismounted mailed knights, supported by 2 dismounted Frankish mercenary knights, ie a total of 480 men lost to the following:

1. A unit of Templar Foot Knights 91men
2. 2 units of Town militia 226men
3. A single bodyguard unit 50men
Total 367men

My troops were led by my Faction Leader. After my ballistae blew out the gates I sent in the above, and they failed to break through, not only that they caused 20-25% casaulties only. If this MTW, I would know that I lost due to the squeeze factor, but I am aware that this feature was discontinued from series since MTW-VI.

So what is wrong then??

Animations have not been fixed, no.

Well, they have been partially fixed in that they now perform properly against cavalry, but they still almost never inflict casualties on infantry other than in the charge. Goodness knows why it hasn't been fixed given that together with the pike bug it seems to be the thing people complain about most.

*points at signature*

Oh yeah, sorry FactionHeir, I was going to mention VanillaMod but forgot.

Actually, I'm thinking of trying it out for my next vanilla campaign.

I mean the 2H anim fixes, not the mod ~:)

The 2-handers seem to work fine in Retrofit Mod. Varangian Guard can chop up pikemen rather handily. Haven't all the Mods fixed the problem?

I think in Retrofit, they chop them up because they might have increased the attack and defense ratings of varangians drastically and reduced the secondary for pikemen?

I mean even in unmodded varangians can generally kill pikemen, but they get beaten by swordsmen militia for instance.

Part is balance, part is animation, but the animation part can help not boosting the 2H stats so much that battle odds become meaningless.

My other 2-handers seemed to work ok. The Scottish Highland swordmen and the HRE Forlorn Hope I clearly remember doing well and not having slow movements. The Varangians seem to have fast movements when attacking pikemen. Now others such as axemen just stand there and seem to parry the pikes and get in almost no swipes. Maybe the Varangians armor helps them get through without taking a bad hit so that they get swings in.

Faction Heir: *points at signature*

Actually I did download your 2H animations before posting this, I just wanted to be sure before implementing them. Will try out tonight and report back.



Maybe the Varangians armor helps them get through without taking a bad hit so that they get swings in.

Yep, you got that right, with their armor/defence ratings boosted up, they perform as expected as long as on the defensive.

Still I have to comment that it is truly a sad state of affair, if a company is incapable of patching a problem that was reported when the game was orignally launched, that too after 3 patches till date.:thumbsdown:

It just confirms that my approach is right: buy TW games at least a year or more after release, once they enter the bargain bin. I mean 10$ is exactly what the game is worth at vanilla. I will probably buy Kingdoms then next year after the christmas rush is over, and they are looking to clear out the shelves for new releases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amritochates

It just confirms that my approach is right: buy TW games at least a year or more after release, once they enter the bargain bin. I mean 10$ is exactly what the game is worth at vanilla. I will probably buy Kingdoms then next year after the christmas rush is over, and they are looking to clear out the shelves for new releases.

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My approach is to not buy any more TW games until CA cleans up its act. I won't be shelling even $9.99 for E:TW.

I closely watched a combat between 2-handed axemen and pavaise crossbowmen last night. The axes were swung about just as often as the swords were. A lot of parrying and poking however; it looked rather stupid at x1 speed, but I guess the combat and animation are working.

Pavise crossbow swords don't swing as often as swordsmen swords I think.
Also, the thing that is problematic about the 2H anims is that their fast anims cannot kill (non lethal) and their slowest two anims are lethal and those get interrupted most of the time pre-fix.

Against mounted enemies, they only use fast anims and those are lethal agaisnt cavalry only :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Pavise crossbow swords don't swing as often as swordsmen swords I think.
Also, the thing that is problematic about the 2H anims is that their fast anims cannot kill (non lethal) and their slowest two anims are lethal and those get interrupted most of the time pre-fix.

Against mounted enemies, they only use fast anims and those are lethal agaisnt cavalry only :wink:

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Hi FactionHeir,

Can you give a brief description of what you have done to fix the 2H bug?

Here you go:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...00&postcount=3

If used in a setting of my mod, there's also added balancing, but that's not absolutely necessary as the files alone should do a lot to fix it even in an otherwise unmodded game.

Thanks!
Does that mean that DEK and DNK have lethality on all their attack animations?
Is it difficult to mod these animations? I especially want to speed up archers..

No, lethalities cannot be changed without giving them different anims, which will look odd (say giving 2H axe a halberd or 2H sword anim). What I did was make those anims a bit faster and their block duration shorter, so they tend to waste less time using them. The lethal slow anims were sped up to increase their usefulness. The anims that are used against both infantry and cavalry were slwoed down somewhat to not make them too powerful against cavalry (they perform better than spears otherwise).

I was initially wanting to remove some anims altogether, but that doesn't seem to work.

So am I right in getting the impression that all 2-handers are bugged, but some are more bugged than others?

TBH I avoid all 2-handers like the plague and have done so since my early painful experiences of confidently sending my heavy billmen and DEKs to butcher units of light cavalry only to watch in horror as they simply stood around being slaughtered.

FactionHeir: Your 'Improved2HAnimations' mod sounds great.
Just one question; if i install this, will my old savegames still work on it, or will it only work when i start a new game?

Its savegame compatible, and doesn't need a mod switch (but it will then overwrite your normal animations)

Does this problem exist in Kingdoms patch 1.5 too?

I recently installed Medieval 2 Total War Gold, the German edition.

- It was patched to 1.3, with 1.3 just being a patch to make different MTW versions compatible for online play, actually. So it was basically 1.2.
- Kingdoms was 1.04, I patched it to 1.05.

I also downloaded Faction Heir's 2H anim fix and without further mods (I do not know what he did in vanilla, I only downloaded the fixed 2H anims) it makes two handers too strong.

The historical battle of Pavia becomes very easy with the new 2h anims. Victory guaranteed.
With the "unfixed" 2H animations, however, it is well balanced!

I tried some 1 vs 1 fights: HRE Zweihander vs different pike and spear units.

The fixed 2h anims did usually more damage and won faster.
BUT the unfixed 2h anims were good, too. They once lost due to a charge, and took longer, took more damage, but in the end also won, often easily, too.

Later I tested vs Cavalry, hardly any difference.


The file date of the animations is: 5. Oct .2007, 12:02



I really did not notice 2h units underperforming.

Or which other units should I have tested (please be specific!), axemen, halberdiers...???

2H vs spears (not pikes) and other 1H sword types.

Anims without changes to balancing won't work of course, which is why VM balances units according to new anims.

Note that in unmodded M2TW, 2H units have very high attack ratings, hence when they do eventually hit, its usually a kill, but the thing is that usually they don't get to complete a lethal attack anim.

Historical battles are balanced by CA according to bugged anims and you will also notice them being somewhat out of whack in regards to shielded units doing better due to the shield bug having been fixed back in 1.2.

The argument in this thread is in regards to comparing 2H anims vs infantry and pre 1.2 anims with post 1.2 anims vs cavalry.

I have a question - is it possible to actually make the faster animations "lethal" at all?

You could use the related and pretty much visually identical halberd and 2H sword ones I guess.

Ah, there would be were my confusion lied - when I think of "2hander" animations, I think of all units under it collectively - I had no idea that the swords and halberds were more effective because the faster animations were lethal.