Who should succeed Perseus, Basileus of Makedonia?

This is Perseus, the mighty Basileus of Makedonia.

https://img115.imageshack.us/img115/...rgeadesez3.jpg

Now he's 59 and it's time to decide which of his two sons should succeed him and lead the Makedonian Kingdom to new glories, as far as Alexandros and beyond!

Either Euphamios...

https://img183.imageshack.us/img183/...rgeadeslm4.jpg


... or Antiochos?

https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/...rgeadestj3.jpg

Euphamios is a bastard. His "mother" was 13 at his birth. I roleplay inappropiate ages of mothers as the children being offspring from the fathers' affairs with their Hetairai. I think that's historically feasable. Plus he is philhellen, as opposed to his father, who strictly follows the Makedonian ways and hates every effete Southron. But Euphamios is the older one, of course, and is elected as successor for more than 20 years now. He is the conqueror of Egypt and would be easily accepted by the Assembly of the Army. Also, Euphamios already has an adult son named Polyperchon which is an idiot.

Antiochos has a great name! And he is better at management. He is not a bastard which means that his mother is constantly telling Perseus to make her son the heir to the throne. He is also misellen like his father. He only has a daughter at the moment. He is very young and could govern the empire for four decades. He has fought one battle since the screenshot and suffered great casualties (blame me), but at least he lost the "very unsure troops" trait.

So I'd like to know whom you would choose for a task nothing short of recreating the greatest empire of all times!

Go for Antiochos, I'd say. He's got the Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous and he's about 20 years younger, so I'd say that gives him vastly more potential than Euphamios. Plus, while Euphamios will die in 10 or so years and leave his idiot son on the throne, Antiochos will have a long time on the throne and probably get at least one good son.

Antiochios

he's younger, he's got time to improve himself and man up a little.
Also, you'll have more time to find and breed a suitable successor.

Euphamios. He has far more influence at court and would be well liked by the other noblemen.

Foot

From a real life perspective? Euphamios, as per what Foot said. From a game perspective, Antiochos for sure.

Euphamios, at first glance. But Perseus is also selfish, which means he might be resentful of Euphamios's presence at court and general disloyalty; this and his pragmatism might drive him to choose the better-able but lesser known Antiochos. If (hopefully when) you do choose Antiochos, you should have him work hard to outdo Euphamios (whom he will doubtless dislike and distrust) and prove himself to the Nobles.

Post some more Arche Makedonia info, by the way. How far have you gotten?

It gives me joy to know that Foot and I think alike when it comes to regarding succession :beam:

As he and Gaius said, from the perspective on how it would've turned out in real life: Euphamios. In support of Antiochos however, there are a few accounts of the reigning king choosing a younger more competent son to succeed him if he was superior to his elder brother. Ptolemy I Soter chose Ptolemy Mikros over the elder Ptolemy Keraunos. Antiochus I Soter executed his elder son Seleucus, after an attempted rebellion or some other seditious activity, and replaced him with the younger Antiochus II.

It's also believed by some that Antiochus III the Great had his eldest son, also named Antiochus, assassinated because he was becoming more popular with his subjects than himself but I personally don't believe that if he did order his son's death that it wasn't for such simple reason.

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Originally Posted by DeathEmperor

Antiochus I Soter executed his elder son Seleucus, after an attempted rebellion or some other seditious activity, and replaced him with the younger Antiochus II.

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I wouldn't call that to chose :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by DeathEmperor

It's also believed by some that Antiochus III the Great had his eldest son, also named Antiochus, assassinated because he was becoming more popular with his subjects than himself but I personally don't believe that if he did order his son's death that it wasn't for such simple reason.

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Are you sure it is Antiochos III.? To my knowledge his eldest would be Seleukos IV. Philopator. The custom to name the firstborn Seleukos and the secondborn Antiochos would be still intact then.

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

I wouldn't call that to chose :laugh4:

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Hehe I wouldn't either. Still if Euphamios were to hitch a rid on a fleet of petecontai(sp) and that fleet just happened to run into a fleet or two of eleutheroi ships...well accidents happen :laugh4:

And if such tragedy did take place then Perseus would have no choice, but to choose Antiochos :beam:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Are you sure it is Antiochos III.? To my knowledge his eldest would be Seleukos IV. Philopator. The custom to name the firstborn Seleukos and the secondborn Antiochos would be still intact then.

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100% certain. Read about it E.R. Bevan's The House of Seleucus: Volume 2 countless times, and I think B. Bar Kochva mentioned it in his notes in his book The Seleucid Army. Here's a link to a site that I use every so often for quick summaries of the lives and accomplishments of Seleucid, Antigonid, and Lagid kings: http://www.livius.org/am-ao/antiochu...ochus_iii.html

It certainly was the custom for the early Seleukid kings to name their sons after their fathers, but Seleukos II started the 'trend' where the eldest son was named after one's self. Seleukos II Kallinikos was initially succeeded by his eldest son Seleukos III Keraunos who had one of the shortest, if not the shortest, reign of any Seleukid king (though the later ones come pretty close) and Seleukos was then succeeded by his younger brother Antiochus III.

Right now it would be Euphamios because the army would more likely follow him than his brother. The King doesn't really like either of them:

- Euphamios because of his lazyness and pessimism what would make a ruler that will most likely hide in his pallace instead of going out and conquer the known world.

- Antiochos because he is an effeminate and morose turncoat who might be more successfull in court politics but is not the kind of people the king likes around him.

The King prefers people who are tough, straight ahead, optimistic and know what they want, and don't have any problems using brute force to achieve their goals.

Still, Euphamios is a philhellene. This will certainly be looked upon the court with some caution.

Well, he wouldn't. Being philhellen doesn't necessarily mean he would adopt southern-hellenic customs, which were never far from Makedonian ones. Hellenes (in general) might not have had any real sense of unity at that time, but they sure had too many things in common to reject there would have been frendly feelings between any hellenic people.

Anyway, I would go for Euphamios. Older, wiser and Loyal, as opposed to Antiochos. Then again, Antiochos has other plus points, like having completed the Agoge, as well as a very bright future ahaid of him. They both are Langorous, which isn't very good, but that doesn't say much.

Good luck with your Arche's future, I hope you will spread the dream of Hellenism to the furthest corners again :wink:
Maion

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Originally Posted by DeathEmperor

100% certain. Read about it E.R. Bevan's The House of Seleucus: Volume 2 countless times, and I think B. Bar Kochva mentioned it in his notes in his book The Seleucid Army. Here's a link to a site that I use every so often for quick summaries of the lives and accomplishments of Seleucid, Antigonid, and Lagid kings: http://www.livius.org/am-ao/antiochu...ochus_iii.html

It certainly was the custom for the early Seleukid kings to name their sons after their fathers, but Seleukos II started the 'trend' where the eldest son was named after one's self. Seleukos II Kallinikos was initially succeeded by his eldest son Seleukos III Keraunos who had one of the shortest, if not the shortest, reign of any Seleukid king (though the later ones come pretty close) and Seleukos was then succeeded by his younger brother Antiochus III.

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Thanks, interesting site.

Ah, I said Polyperchon was an idiot, but well, he's quite OK indeed...

https://img516.imageshack.us/img516/...rgeadesqi2.jpg

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Originally Posted by konny

Right now it would be Euphamios because the army would more likely follow him than his brother. The King doesn't really like either of them:

- Euphamios because of his lazyness and pessimism what would make a ruler that will most likely hide in his pallace instead of going out and conquer the known world.

- Antiochos because he is an effeminate and morose turncoat who might be more successfull in court politics but is not the kind of people the king likes around him.

The King prefers people who are tough, straight ahead, optimistic and know what they want, and don't have any problems using brute force to achieve their goals.

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Antiochos is vigorous and bloody. So he has quite a big chance to become a slaughterer like his dad.

Yeah, the army would likely follow Euphamios though he is philhellene and wildly extravagant. He hasn't seen his father and his court for over 20 years though. He conquered Egypt while Perseus (and Antiochos) was in Pella or conquering the Crimea.

There was a Greek rebellion which affected the whole south of Greece that I stirred up. Antiochos was in the Agoge at this time, and I didn't let Spart rebel naturally. The Makedonian governors of Greece fled all to Sparte, were they gathered to subdue the rebels. So Perseus could consider Antiochos loyal.

You might see that I'm seeking for arguments pro Antiochos...

Here is a map of the Arche Makedonia in 214BC, the year 104 of Alexandros IV.

https://img56.imageshack.us/img56/72...eimperiau1.jpg

Dark blue: Satrapy
Light blue: Semiautonomous Satrapy
White: Allied State

I say go for Antiochos, his profile show that he can be a much better ruler than his brother. Superb administrator, Mathematic expert and completed Spartan Agoge are enough to make him your next Basileus.

Cheers

I'd probably choose Antiochos because of his name, but the other guy seems better...

Antiochos just scored a heroic victory at some Euphrat crossing. The game thanked me with a ctd. I cheated... and Perseus, in dear love to the good boy, made him his successor. Euphamios is putting up watchtowers in Lybia at the moment, so I guess until he gets to know the news, it'll be too late.

Edit: Polyperchon and Euphamios will be enemies of the king forever I guess, I will give them a nice governor charge, somewhere far away.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Antiochos just scored a heroic victory at some Euphrat crossing. The game thanked me with a ctd. I cheated... and Perseus, in dear love to the good boy, made him his successor. Euphamios is putting up watchtowers in Lybia at the moment, so I guess until he gets to know the news, it'll be too late.

Edit: Polyperchon and Euphamios will be enemies of the king forever I guess, I will give them a nice governor charge, somewhere far away.

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Euphamios is unselfish and loyal, so i think he will arrange himself with it, as long as it is for the good of the kingdom, but Polyperchon should be a different thing... :skull:

Nice progress you got there, Centurio! How did you manage to make these maps, by the way? I am in 248BC (as Makedonia) and have managed to unify Hellas, as well as capture Megale Hellas and almost all of Sikelia.

In the name of the true Basileus ton Basileon, I truthfully wish you spread Hellenism anew and put even Megas Alexandros' conquests to shame!
Maion

Euphamios could always meet an unfortunate accident in battle though *looks around dubiously*

I would choose Antiochos, because he's young and he seems to be more willing to be a respectes ruler for all his people and not only the macedonians.
He might just do what the real Perseus did, defame the older brother and let his father kill him...;)

Thank you all for your interest!

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

Nice progress you got there, Centurio! How did you manage to make these maps, by the way? I am in 248BC (as Makedonia) and have managed to unify Hellas, as well as capture Megale Hellas and almost all of Sikelia.

In the name of the true Basileus ton Basileon, I truthfully wish you spread Hellenism anew and put even Megas Alexandros' conquests to shame!
Maion

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I made the map just with Paint, and the EB 1.0 plain map. Yes, Hellenism will be spread, I swear... :whip:

if Antiochos is to be the rightfull heir... I think Euphamios needs to die... be it accidentally... or not

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Thank you all for your interest!


I made the map just with Paint, and the EB 1.0 plain map. Yes, Hellenism will be spread, I swear... :whip:

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I see, thank you for the info. Here, have a red balloon from me: :balloon:

Maion

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

I see, thank you for the info. Here, have a red balloon from me: :balloon:

Maion

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You sound sarcastic. Are you disappointed? Thx for the balloon...

How can anyone sound someway over the internet?

Uff. How can anybody be the Sowiet premierminister or whatever, when the Sowietunion doesn't exist any more?

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Originally Posted by Hax

How can anyone sound someway over the internet?

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If you have a microphone and a voice chat program, certainly :yes:

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Uff. How can anybody be the Sowiet premierminister or whatever, when the Sowietunion doesn't exist any more?

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Yes, of course that's what they told you, Comrade Nixalsverdrich.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

You sound sarcastic. Are you disappointed? Thx for the balloon...

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No, actually I didn't:sweatdrop: I'm sorry if I gave you such an impression, but the thing is, I have never seen that map before on the EB site (blanc page when clicking on it)! I downloaded it now, though:smash:

Maion