Government types and Macedonia

First would like to say this is by far the best mod I've ever played. I've played vanilla off and on since it's release; mainly because I've never found a mod that has appealed to me. EB is not only solidly built but fun as hell to play. Already have a raging addiction.

Ok on to my question.

Just started my second campaign in EB as Macedonia. In 15 or so turns I have succesfully conquered all of greece, crete, and rhodes and managed to get out of the red. Being in an uneasy truce with the Epirotes after they conquered (Geographical) Macedon, I am more or less clinging to life. It's a desperate race to milk the most out of my cities and recruit the best troops I can be capable of getting. Playing as Rome was simple enough, install type II governments outside of the homeland and build markets, roads, etc. Macedon seems a little trickier. Installing governments in my acquisitions I found too many choices. Not only do I have the option for type II or type III governments, I can also repair Athen's & Sparta's respective governments. Playing on VH/VH seems to be a delicate dance where one misstep and I'll share the same fate as the greeks. With all these options it's hard to make a decision.

I find the government cards to be ambiguous, aside from the city stats listed at the top. It tells me nothing of the magnitude of the financial benefits and the quality of troops the city will gain. My questions are this: Anyone having played Macedonia know the pros and cons of these different governments? Does Athen's & Sparta's governments allow the recruitment of certain region specific troops, and is it preferable to the satrapy? What is the benefit of a satrapy versus an allied state in a region where both are implementable? I was thrown off by this last one after seeing Corinth as an allied state (Perhaps this is for the historical accuracy of the start date?).

I apologize for the long-windedness. Thanks.

read carefully what im about to say, write it down if needed

1st step- RESTART UR CAMPAIGN ON HARD/MEDIUM, the game was designed on medium state wise
(hard,very hard unbalances game with humongous + stats for ai)

i recommend after conquering athenai, to put a type 3 to milk money out of it but also recruit some hellenic troops such as hoplites and peltast/theurophia and such. Sparta ill put a type 4 for about 30 years to build up the MICs and happiness buildings then destroy gov and put a type 3 and repeat to type 2.
On to Epeiros- I recommend using cheats to move it away, usually id move them over to sicily or pergamon (to roleplay them as pergamium or syracuse)

this might sound bad but i usually build up half toe happiness and MICS in there settlement using
process_cq and add money cheats and let them built the rest
usually i FD lilybium from carthage to taras and let them conquear the island and stalemate te romans (they'll send stack after stack, but after 10 or so years, will make occasional raids or 2)
then happi for you, conquear the world!! and let carthage/rome fight over sicilly

then I/d FD koinon hellene to bosphorus to make a recreation of bosphorion kingdom to keep those pesky sauromates away from my recuirintg grounds for scythian archers.

then you know the rest

You should always destroy the government of the enemy upon conquest, never repair it. If we could automatically destroy it we would. It makes no sense to conquer them and let them continue their foreign government, you have just toppled that with your military and need to establish a new one.

As for which governments are most suitable, you'll find the recruitment viewer to be a good tool.

I dont think he's a role player.... so my guess would be to stick to level 2.. so you can have your factonal troops... but... don't know I pretty never blitz :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Frederico

First would like to say this is by far the best mod I've ever played. I've played vanilla off and on since it's release; mainly because I've never found a mod that has appealed to me. EB is not only solidly built but fun as hell to play. Already have a raging addiction.

Ok on to my question.

Just started my second campaign in EB as Macedonia. In 15 or so turns I have succesfully conquered all of greece, crete, and rhodes and managed to get out of the red. Being in an uneasy truce with the Epirotes after they conquered (Geographical) Macedon, I am more or less clinging to life. It's a desperate race to milk the most out of my cities and recruit the best troops I can be capable of getting. Playing as Rome was simple enough, install type II governments outside of the homeland and build markets, roads, etc. Macedon seems a little trickier. Installing governments in my acquisitions I found too many choices. Not only do I have the option for type II or type III governments, I can also repair Athen's & Sparta's respective governments. Playing on VH/VH seems to be a delicate dance where one misstep and I'll share the same fate as the greeks. With all these options it's hard to make a decision.

I find the government cards to be ambiguous, aside from the city stats listed at the top. It tells me nothing of the magnitude of the financial benefits and the quality of troops the city will gain. My questions are this: Anyone having played Macedonia know the pros and cons of these different governments? Does Athen's & Sparta's governments allow the recruitment of certain region specific troops, and is it preferable to the satrapy? What is the benefit of a satrapy versus an allied state in a region where both are implementable? I was thrown off by this last one after seeing Corinth as an allied state (Perhaps this is for the historical accuracy of the start date?).

I apologize for the long-windedness. Thanks.

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Glad to hear you are enjoying your campaign, Frederico!

The first thing I feel like I have to tell you, is that you shouldn't play on VH battle difficulty. It just ruins battles. VH Campaign is also not good, IMO, as endless stacks of troops (in liaison with VH battles) will make your life hell, especially later on. I play on H/M with BI and I'm having the best campaign ever right now. The year is 248BC, I have unified all of Hellas plus Megale Hellas and have subdued the Dardanoi and Odrysai as wel (Segesta and Tylis). Nice, slow expansion without chaotic battles and such gives you maximum EB experience, if you ask me.

The government types are somethingthat has always bothered me, as I like to take things on a historical approach. As such, I try and create governments that would historically be installed by the Makedones. I later found out that this is rather pointless, especially if you want to take out the best of each region (troops, buildings ect). That is why I made every aea an expansion province for me in the beggining of the campaign. I don't reccomend it, but I believe that it wuld be logical that, if Makedonia would become an empire like Rome did (hypothetically), they would create more satrapies, so I don''=t like to be limited in building only type 3 or 4 governments in some provinces.

As for the different governments available themselves, I believe that if you bother to read the descriptions you will make out what each of them does.
Basically, the type 1 governemnt (Patris Makedonike - Makedonian Homeland) represents the traditional governmental type that would be used in areas where mostly Makedones would live. The people themselves (Makedones) where quite closed as a society (as opposed to open and ree southern-hellenic city-states who welcomed foreigners) and mostly farmers or herders, so what you get is less population growth, but every factional unit available (Pezhetairoi, Hetairoi, Argyraspides ect). It also ensures the population will remain quite happy.
The type 2 government (Satrapeia Makedonike - Makedonian Satrapy), represents a solid government installed by the Makedones, in regions when the people themselves where not present in great numbers, In such provinces, Makedones would usually form the core of the aristocracy, thus having complete control over the region's political matters. As such, while the region itself might not be very appealing to non-Hellenes (less population growth and regional units), it will certainly be so for Hellenes or Heterogeneis (helf-hellenes, from their father's side), due to the many opportunities available for them, just for being Hellenes.
The type 3 government (Nomos Emphrouros - Garrisoned State), represets a government that would be installed in areas where the people would be more prone of causing rebellion, with the tight garrison ensuring some degree of law, but at the same time causing unrest due to the soldiers mostly taking advantage of the local people and mistreating them. It is only logical that mostly local soldiers can be trained under such a government, with few to any local troops. Another good thing about the government, is that, by taking advantage of the city's people and buisnesses, you make more profit. It is known that southern Hellas (the city-states) was kept in check with such governments.
Lastly, the type 4 government (Nomos Symmachos Autonomos - Autonomous Allied State) represents a government that would mostly be installed in regions thta made a lot of gold, as meddling with foreign economies would most times result in the region making much less money. You should install these in big cities, like Roma, or other ones inhabited by almost exclusively ''barbaroi'', like the region of Galatia. This government will make you more money than others, but it will also cause more unrest and it will enable you to train exclusively local troops (maybe some regional, if the people of the settlement are of the same nationalidentity as your people).

I hope this helped, even though I must admit it was rather long :P
Maion