The Mongol Invasion Hotseat

This thread is the planning phase for a new hotseat.

The game: Medieval 2 Total War
The mod: Askthepizzaguy_Mod (under construction)

Players: Variable

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Premise:

What happens when you make all computer-controlled factions, even the rebels, super-aggressive, and then allow the Mongol hordes to arrive at the beginning of the campaign?

In singleplayer mode, it allows Askthepizzaguy to face a daunting computer-controlled opponent, and get out all his daily frustrations in a non-destructive manner.

But in Hotseat mode, it means that the horde has arrived and is controlled by a guest player. The other players control the normal factions from Vanilla M2TW, and are surrounded by aggressive rebels and strong AI opponents.

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On one side, you have the Mongol Horde, whose victory conditions include taking 50 provinces and holding Constantinople, or eliminating all human players.

On the other side, you have a loose confederation of human players forced to ally with one another to defeat the horde. Simple enough... but there is a problem. The players in this game only win if they accomplish two victory conditions.

1. Defeat the Mongol Horde, or remain allied to the faction which defeats the Mongol Horde

2. Be the sole human player left standing afterwards.

This means that you cannot trust your partners if you send off all your forces to destroy the Horde, because they could betray you, steal your lands, and become the most powerful human player, leaving them in a strong position in the endgame.

It also means that alliances may choose to drop human players who fail to send troops on the anti-mongol crusade, declare war on them, and absorb them into their own empires.

A delicate balance must be maintained... in order to win, the Horde must be eliminated... which means troops must be sent on crusade. But in order to win, your faction cannot be eliminated early by betrayals executed by greedy players. Which means troops must be left at home to defend against the untrustworthy neighbors one finds in Europe.

The Mongol horde is impressive but cannot withstand the combined might of all Christendom, can it? Should the Catholic Kings fall upon one another like vicious, greedy dogs, the Horde will annihilate them. Should the Catholic Kings trust one another too much, and one of them is sure to let personal ambition get in the way of a united Europe.

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Your input and discussion is welcome.

I will join ATPG faction still undecided will post tomorrow. Hope we get more players.

I call the mongols.

yall need to pick some avatars so I can tell you apart.

You rookies all look alike to me. :laugh2:

How do you mean to fight battles : PvAI or auto-resolve ?

whichever is preferred.

I tend to prefer PvAI, because otherwise it's just a "spam the best unit" game.

By the way, I was planning on inviting you to play the Mongols. That oughta frighten the Catholics enough to make cooperation a viable option!

PS post here for your 2000th post!

Oooh, I'll take England or Turkey, whichever one nobody else wants.

Yes I'll have some cheese with my stake.

:egypt:

You do realize of course that he will just trample his way through your lands... :laugh2:

Frankly, I'll take the cahllenge up but only if we resort to auto-resolve... I'm already over-busy and I'm sure the Mongols will have a lot of fights going on so I won't be able to fight them all...

If Ramses plays Turkey then that will be a hard bite first... If I ever happen to bring him to ground, the others shoudl have had ample time to prepare for my coming...

Let us say I consider joining but it will depend on what the other players will prefer as a type of game play... I don't expect to hold anybody hostage of my whims...

And WOOOT : 2000th post !!!

could be a long game, too. Defeating the Mongols is no simple thing.

Might be a good idea to auto-resolve this one. It also gives the defender a reason to have hope, because AI versus Human is not a fair match I suppose.

Still... I love actual fighting

:balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon: :balloon:

I agree... Both kind of games require different qualities :

In a PvAI, you might correct any mistakes you made on the campaign map by being a good general in the field.

In AR, you have to think in advance and use some simple "tricks" to avoid the worst of the turn-based game (like leaving huge stacks in cities...)

These are two different style of gameplay... I like both but PvAI is at this point, too much time-consuming for me...

If I join, I may come to regret making the choice of AR, as I think it plays against the Mongols who IIRC are pretty weak on AR...

Would your mod be based on vanilla or some other mod ?

The Askthepizzaguy_Mod is in development, concept by me, coded so far by CavalryCmdr (who may or may not continue making changes, haven't heard back) It was originally designed for my purposes in single player mode. Basically, I wanted the rebels, AI factions, and the horde to all be more aggressive and powerful, and I wanted the horde to arrive before anyone could realistically defeat them through an offensive. Oh, and I wanted them to be 3 times their original size.

(No waiting in Sarkel with 20 stacks of troops here.)

So far, so good, all I need is for the Horde to be aggressive and bloodthirsty as they should be. When in horde mode they tend to wander. Thats the only thing missing so far as I can tell.

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I got the idea for this hotseat when someone suggested I'd make a good Mongol Horde. Then, with this mod coming out, I thought hmmm.... Europe must unite to take out a giant Horde faction.

To make it fair (human controlled horde) the Mongols must have the same size horde as vanilla. That needs to be changed back to the original for hotseats. Otherwise the Mongol faction could literally blitz across the map even against Human opponents.

No other changes were requested, AI gets boosted money i think but otherwise it's vanilla with a mean streak and a bloodthirsty demeanor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

So far, so good, all I need is for the Horde to be aggressive and bloodthirsty as they should be.

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All you have to do is ask... See the Teutonic Hotseat thread to see how bloodthirsty I can be...

this seems like a good idea, would all starting provinces be handed to factions or vanilla start?

if the former, I would take Novgorod, especally if its PvsAI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

All you have to do is ask... See the Teutonic Hotseat thread to see how bloodthirsty I can be...

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I didn't even read the write-up about it and I still have heard of your legendary exploits.

Why do you think I wanted to recruit you instead of myself, hmm?
:laugh2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 00jebus

this seems like a good idea, would all starting provinces be handed to factions or vanilla start?

if the former, I would take Novgorod, especally if its PvsAI

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Looks like for fairness it's leaning Auto-resolve. Otherwise the humans can get pretty brutal on the AI and decimate Tristan's horde before it can attack.

Pfft! I'm all England then, don't stick me in Turkey with those sad auto-calc troops and the Horde on my doorstep. :laugh4:

:egypt:

Sigh... I wish there were a way to satisfy both needs.

Doing Player versus AI in this situation gives the defender a severe disadvantage.

Doing All Autoresolve means certain factions are worthless.

:wall:

Well, there are obvious advantages to the auto-calc hotseats; they're much faster for one. Still, it'll be hard to fill Turkey and Russia when they get such crud troops and Mongols right on their doorstep.

:egypt:

I honestly hadn't planned on the Russians or the Turks surviving.

Even IF you could fight the battles, I am sorry, but you're cooked. :smash:

The Mongols historically pretty much roll them over anyway. Egypt might stand a chance, and the Moors are fine, but Poland needs help, and yall better send Poland some help.

A warning - the mongols totally suck at autoresolve. I played them in the teutonic hotseat and had 1.5 stacks of troops besieging a rebel town garrisoned by a half stack of woodsmen. I assaulted using autoresolve and lost the battle with 500 casualties - they suffered only 200ish.

I have to play this one. :grin:

I'll take Venice, if that's alright.

Ok, the overwhelming majority seems to think that autoresolve will kill the Mongol's chances.

If it's all right, Tristan, we might have to go with PvsAI. If you can't play, it will be a major loss for the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Ok, the overwhelming majority seems to think that autoresolve will kill the Mongol's chances.

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Sorry, I didn't mean to pour cold water on the idea. :embarassed:

It could still work well as an autoresolve game if the Mongols had enough stacks and played intelligently and strategically, isolating single euro armies and surrounding them with stacks of their own - and I can't think of anyone more competent to do this than Tristan de Castelreng, God of Autoresolve :bow:

I choose spain, the catholic kingdom.

This would give me reason to reinstall, I PICK NUMBER 3.

Failing that, Denmark/HRE are always good.

Number three?

?