Help. Ptolemaioi are too strong for me

Playing as Karthadastim. Ptolemaioi attacked me. I sent an army of elite phalanxes, sacred band, elephants, slingers, elite infantry, everything to take back what was mine. I beat abouit 4 of their full armies. And about 10 smaller armies. I allways sent one of my generals up tp Crete to get new mercendaries. But soon they where all gone and i had no units left.

I got a new reinforcements from carthage. When i had fought for many turns, I was ready to march on Alexandria. I found out they had four new full armies. I was like ":thumbsdown:". Ofcourse they won after some battles. and now i dont know what to do.

where do they get all their money from? they get new full stack armies all the time. I have blocked most of their ports.

I have used much of my money on this war, and i do not earn anything on it. But if i stop, they will get closer to carthage every turn.

tried to ceasefire with my best diplopat. offering them money, and even a town.

You have any good ideas to what i should do? If i sail straight to alexandria and sacks it, they will get closer to my capital all the time. And they wouldnt stop producing new full stack armies.

Playing Very hard / Hard.

switch to Hard for the campaign difficulty...

maybe it's because you play on hard battle difficulties try normal and see what happens and make a second army and go conquer Egypt that would stop them.

Take Salamis (it won't be very well-defended) and use it as a staging ground for raids on Alexandria. You can recruit militia hoplites, peltasts, and hippeis from there, as well as some mercenaries. If you can sack Alexandria and Memphis once every 20 turns or so (use lots of spies to open the gates when the cities are poorly defended) and destroy their MICs, the Egyptians will have great difficulty in recovering their former strength.

If you want an even better chance of success, take Rhodes as well and recruit hoplites from it to serve as the heavy infantry core of your raiding army. The great thing about seizing Rhodes is that the Greeks should immediately sign a ceasefire afterwards, as you will share no borders with them.

thank you for very good tips. I Allready have Rhodes. And Crete. Just one more question: If i capture Cypros, are they phoenican or greek?

I think that Cyprus is Eastern Greek.

And remember, you don't have to hold the Egyptian cities. Just sack one, destroy its important buildings, and move on. Leave no garrisons and recruit spies as soon as your conquering armies leave them. That way, you'll have a strong intelligence network for return trips.

yeah. i usually just sack and destroy all buildings and leave when there has been some time since the game started. Or if it is a city far away.

The problem is, the arverni is rushing down to take my cityes in south gaul. And i feel that Lusotania will attack me any moment :P But i have elephants so that i can take their settlements very easy. and i can get some phalagnites up to gaul and kill their hordes of infantry very easy.

To take egypt i will have to get the very big balista down there. and that takes a lot of turns. i wonder how many of their armies who have attacked me or went closer in that time. I will report how it goes :P

They are hard because of the size of their empire they can field large numbers of armies. What I have found useful is using Salamas as a staging ground for harrassing their costal cities (which are usually very poorly defended because they are shunting troops off to the front). Land an full stack of skirmishers on the coast, break them into 4 armies and beseige 4 different settlements. Either they will have to withdraw troops from the front to deal with them (so then you capture front line cities) or you capture the costal cities. Exterminate the population then gift the cities to one of their allies (either they will attack so they are now fighting a two front war or you have permanently reduced their income supply).

If you are not intent on playing in a historically plausible manner, this is what I read somewhere in this forum (can't remember who came up with it or where exactly, so I can't directly give the credit to them but anyway it is not originally my idea) - forts can slow down advancing armies:
Build a fort, place one cheap levy unit in it (never played Qarthadast, slingers would be your choice when playing Koinon Hellenon or Romani; cheapest unit in the roster) and abandon them to their fate, preferrably two such forts at any river or other natural obstacle so they have to take them before advancing any further - slows them down at least one round each for building a battering ram... Of course, you'd be willingly sacrificing your faithful soldiers and absolutely exploiting the game mechanics, but if pure survival is at stake...
There must be some kind of obstacles to use for this, even in flat northern Africa.
And crush their trade buildings in the cities in the "near east" if they still have them, even if it is your faction's historical homeland - if you can't hold them, don't let them have the benefits from them either. AFAIK that area makes for the richest trade income on the whole map... So it substantially adds to the 10000Mnai the AI gets every turn on VH difficulty to recruit its armies.

-EDIT-
BTW, did anyone else here notice that all those army-masses on VH (factional troops, so they're not mercs) does not seem to deplete AI's city populations...? Is it just me or do others here also sometimes get the feeling that the AI is mysteriously capable of using the "add_unit" command?

yeah i will do it now, thanks. Becouse i have a new big army to front them on my way. I will put te troops that have meed merged down to very small in them when i am on my way. And i have a merchandary army in Rhodos with two balistas so that i can take them down viking-style. sack some of their important coast cityes and leave before they arrive. And Duncan.gill, i will do that you said also after i have left :) Very big plans. not sure if they will work out perfectly. but it goes a little better now. I am killing many Arverni also, but i have very low income atm. 240 BC, 80000 income, minus about 70000.

btw, you know any good strategies to win agains pure phalanx armies? What I do atm is to march straight forvard in a line, then i suddenly make my lines very kinky and throw javelins at them from the side and pin them with my own phalanxes. and elephantes from the side.

If you're playing on VH, reducing the Egyptians' income won't do anything. They get money from the VH difficulty setting as well as the script. Oh, and Nachtmeister, the script also replenishes the AI's populations whenever they train units.

I also face Ptolemies in a Hierosolyma/Petra front in my AS campaign, I have fortified it heavily with 4 forts in front with Arabian natives and in back a large one with an army with units left from the main army which fight in the east(Galates, 4 phalanx units-2 pantodapoi and 2 klerouchoi,good cavalry, one elephant unit), that cruch every attemp to advance furter east, you can do the same, I reinforece with navy from Antiocheia and Tarsos.
About fighting full phalanx armies I used sometimes an Alexander/Philippos trick taken by Thebeans the loxi phalagga. Ptolemies bring a lot armies mainly with plalanx units (10-12) I attack with my phalanxes only the left or right wing of enemy and use galates as flankers when cavalry try to kil general and then help pressed pahlanxes with charges in the rear it works well as their phalanxes are getting disorganised and I use galates and elephants to totally destroy them easily with few casualties.

Thanks for many tips. It goes better. But tell me more about the money thing. How they get infinite money when i block all ports, and stuff? Here is how it looks:

https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/...emaioi2pb1.jpg

as you see i have all the islands. I have sacked two of their cityes in north over cypros. And i am going to sack all i can. And when i have enough money i will make a new army to face them in africa. I have just made one now that is aproaching one of their 89564095800 or so armies. I have done the things you had ideas to do, look here:


https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/85...aioiar7.th.jpghttps://img88.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

The script monitors each AI faction's wealth. If the faction's wealth starts going negative, the script will add 40,000 mnai to them. If they have too much money (high enough to cause corruption traits) the script will subtract some. In any event, the AI will always be flush with cash regardless of what you do.

corruption traits =0 I sometimes have very much money. Will they give me corruption traits? btw, how to aviod corruption?

You can avoid corruption by not stockpiling massive amounts of cash. To do this, raise armies and construct buildings. If you have 50,000+ mnai burning a hole in your coffers and have no idea how to spend it, try an extensive port upgrade.

yeah thats what i do. I try to keep it below 60,000, but in peacetimes it is very hard. I am constructing in all my cities. But when corruption has occured in a city, is there any possibility that it goes away? I have one more question.

Extensive port upgrade, i have built in in many places, but it do not raise the trade income very much i noticed. I focus very much on trade, and i understand i need more tradeable goods, and not just fleets, is that right?

Yeah, it only slightly raises trade income. In and of itself, it's totally not worth the price. But it IS useful for eating up lots of cash.

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Originally Posted by ludwag

https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/85...aioiar7.th.jpghttps://img88.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

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Hello, i saw that you use a lot of heavy elites (Pikeman, Lybians, Elephants), but no slingers or bows, no cavaly and no light peltasts...
i would add some cav - Kart-Hadast have a lot of wonderfull cav! (Sacred Band Cavalry and Numidian Nobles) and some lighter troops like the numidians to make the enemy tired and spread away in battle. this troops are good to create local superior in the battlemap. i made always good experience against the ptolemaioi.
greets

I would go with the raiding suggestion and lower battle difficulty to medium, maybe lower campaign difficulty to hard (although if otherwise your campaign is going well, maybe don't, especially if you are capable of defending your cities). If you absolutely demolish all their infrastructure in as many cities as possible, enslaving as you go they will slowly run out of steam.

i usualy use alot of slingers. as many as i can get. But i used them all for my army that was on its way to gaul. And they cant do much damage to phalanxes as they can to arverni. And light infantry with javelins, i fill up later with merchendaries.

I will rather loose the campagin than switching difficulty. I really like this campaign, and i need to thinkvery much new solutions all the time. I love it.

i have sacked four of their small cities now. It feels really good. But i did something really bad though. after done sacking one of them and destroying all the buildings and stuff, i found out it was the phoenican homeland, and that it was a goal to capture it. Actualy i knew it allready, but i had a different name. I got a special trait for it and stuff, but i felt a little bad about it.

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Originally Posted by ludwag

Actualy i knew it allready, but i had a different name. I got a special trait for it and stuff, but i felt a little bad about it.

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oh, "enslaves own peopel"... i know this too.
once as seleukid by conquering kyrene.

slingers and bows can kill phalanxes only from behind effectivly.

greeting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nachtmeister

-EDIT-
BTW, did anyone else here notice that all those army-masses on VH (factional troops, so they're not mercs) does not seem to deplete AI's city populations...? Is it just me or do others here also sometimes get the feeling that the AI is mysteriously capable of using the "add_unit" command?

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Because the AI has no idea about economy or population management we need to help it out in those departments. The AI gets monetary bonuses in the script, and any unit that they produce will be replenished in the city in question. We tried to reduce this replenishment to 75% of the unit size, and many cities were recruited dry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bovi

Because the AI has no idea about economy or population management we need to help it out in those departments. The AI gets monetary bonuses in the script, and any unit that they produce will be replenished in the city in question. We tried to reduce this replenishment to 75% of the unit size, and many cities were recruited dry.

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Thank you for shedding the spotlight on the darkness in my confused whatever-I-use-for-planning-my-campaigns.
...Errm, is it possible to then completely freeze the city-populations at starting level for AI so that we don't get a world of huge cities within 20 years?
I mean, it is somewhat strange to conquer your way to egypt as KH because either you cheat, or you let your cities rebel, or you exterminate population (the latter makes for bad roleplaying) - or you bring a vast baggage train of garrison levies that outnumber your actual army ~3:1 (this is what I usually do.)
Even so - you can't get more than three huge cities before you run out of garrisons and then you need sea superiority if you want to continue at all... Last time I played Baktria I had to pick a selfish general to conquer Persepolis because it had more than 24000 people around 250BC.

We cannot see in the script what the population level is, only which development level it has arrived at, which could belie a much smaller population after a raid. It would be fairly simple and only slightly slow down the game to make AI settlements stay at a given population level. You can remove all population every turn and then put in people up to the starting amount. However, the AI would stagnate completely that way.

And thank you again, bovi --- you are being very patient with my noob-dom, and it is greatly appreciated!

I suppose once I get around to doing it I will mod my EB with a custom script that will simply set city populations for AI-controlled settlements to either historical numbers (though I doubt that I'll get far with that approach due to likely different scaling in actual history which in turn would screw up game-mechanics) or to numbers abstracted from rough historical references to give settlements an ingame-correspondence to the real-world settlements of antiquity - or I'll set up something that while giving the AI room to move/build itself up decently will keep populations from reaching huge city levels before very late in the game to keep the fun up for players by giving opportunity to get rid of culture penalty by upgrading to the huge city administrative structure...
Then again, maybe I could even set up something to automatically decrease city level by 1 upon conquest for all level5 - settlements... This would kill public order in the short term but make it much more stable in the long therm and relieve some of the pressure for very rapid expansion.
As soon as I get to read through the script-related man pages which will take a while due to some very pressing rl-issues. Anyway I think you have pointed me in just the right direction, so once more a great thank you bovi!

I have sacked all their cities exept for 3 now. If I sack the rest of them and destroy everything, ports, everything. will they ever be a threat to me again? I want to be free to do whatever i will. All of iberia is a few turns away now, and I have half gaul. I dont want any more wars. How to prevent the other raising factions from attacking me, when we share borders?

Makedonia, Epeiros, and Aeudi are very big now. They all are ery colse to me. I dont want any more expensive wars.

It's simply impossible to prevent the AI from attacking you on Hard or Very Hard difficulty levels. The horrible diplomacy of the game insures that. There are, however, a few things you can do:

-Make alliances with your neighbors, and give them smallish amounts of mnai- around 1000- to each of them each turn to keep them happy.
-Keep your borders well fortified. Strong armies discourage the AI from attacking.
-Do what you can to stir up other wars between other factions so they're too busy to attack you.
-Use the Force Diplomacy minimod to get ceasefires.

YOU NEED MORE HEAVY CAVALRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4-5 units including a General. Also get a Geasate or 2 in your army from Gaul to "scare them" while the cavarly charges in their rear.

Also look for "hills" on the strategy map and then attack. Once the battle starts you will be on/near a hill to fight from.

Also, think about sending "pirate raids" into Alexandria and the other cities near the coast. Land, Attack, then kill the population and destroy Every Building!.

thanks for good things i can do. To keep lusotanian from attacking i gave them about 300 mnai every turn from game start, so that i could focus on other stuff in the beginning. but suddenly they did, but i was prepared. And i also do what i can to make them fight eachother instead of me, but i think i focus more on that, and i will place the rest om my armies on the borders to scare them, thanks.

but what do you mean by sayng that te diplamacy system is horrible? I dont think it is horrible at all, i think CA did a very good job. But i think everyone here thinks it is cool to dislike vanilla rome, just becouse many things that is bad with eb is becouse it had been bad with vanilla rome, and you blame them more every time.

edit: sorry i may seem a little unthankfull, but i am very thanksfull, even though i said that thing about the diplomacy.