Please CA, may we have a better manual?

The thought came to me, that if the game isn’t finished then the manual isn’t finished.

Now granted, we are a bit down on the priorities list here when we are asking for better documentation in some people estimation, but it would help when all those people start screaming something is a bug when it should be there anyway.

Each subsequent manual seems to be a little smaller and less detailed then the one before and this is a trend that should be stopped if not totally reversed..

I don’t think that most of us need long dissertations on tactics, we just need basic documentation of the features and controls with a few explanations. Detail what is conditional or random at least some where on line…

The better informed the end users are with a product, the fewer complaints you should have.

Well, to be fair, the STW-MTW 'downgrade' was rather understandable. I mean, giving a detailed description of EVERY unit in MTW would have been rather expensive.
But I do agree that the post-MTW manual is rather disappointing. A fold-out tech tree is all well and good, but really...give us some flavor text, CA. People like little background bits in the manual, and the 18th century gives you some great stuff to write about.

While I love Shogun -- it remains one of my top five favorite games, and I still play it -- the manual was atrocious. It was incomplete, and much of the information it did contain was inaccurate and/or flat-out wrong. MTW's manual is probably the series' best so far, and even it's still a little on the thin side.

I'm not saying we need something completely comprehensive -- figuring out how stuff works in a game is often part of the fun, after all. But a decent manual should at least cover the basic controls and game mechanics.

Also, it should be reasonably accurate. I don't care about the occasional typo, and I can forgive when the manual is off because something in the game was changed late in the production cycle (after the manuals were already being printed). It drives me up a wall, however, when manuals say you need such-and-such buildings/technologies in order to gain access to X unit, but fails to mention that X unit can only be trained in Provinces A & C, and/or that you have to wait until the game's Phlebonium Era starts before you can recruit them. :wall:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I don’t think that most of us need long dissertations on tactics, we just need basic documentation of the features and controls with a few explanations. Detail what is conditional or random at least some where on line…

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^^^ What he said. :thumbsup:

Why do you need a manual when you have the ORG? :P

Annie

My RTW Gold edition didn't even had a manual :shame:

It's just for flavor more then anything. I mean espically in a game like this where you have a cabinet how hard is it to have little comments from either various historical figures, or various officials quirping in now and then.

I'm not asking the manual be all powerful, but i'd like it to be a little more personal and a little less like it came off a factory line.

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Originally Posted by Wausser

My RTW Gold edition didn't even had a manual :shame:

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Most 'gold' and 'game of the year' editions don't come with manuals now. That's basically industry terminology for the 'budget' or 'milking the franchise' edition.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Now granted, we are a bit down on the priorities list here when we are asking for better documentation in some people estimation, but it would help when all those people start screaming something is a bug when it should be there anyway.

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It's better for Creative Assembly to have no documentation. That way they can claim that features are working as intended. The other excuse that they have used for not fixing bugs is that it would be of interest only to hardcore players. So for example, don't expect any numeric info about units that's displayed to be correct because if it isn't Creative Assembly considers that to be of interest only to hardcore players, and they won't fix it.

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Originally Posted by Sheogorath

Most 'gold' and 'game of the year' editions don't come with manuals now.

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Well didn't need it anyways, I kinda "organized" RTW a few years before I actually bought it...

For you vets think back a number of years to before CA released RTW.

Remember the cinematic video they made that basically ran down half the factions on the map (certainly the more interesting ones), gave a breif view of their armies in action, a brief description of who they were, and a very simplistic idea of how they could succeed? It was like a faction preview video. After seeing that, the manuel for the game paled in comparison. I don't think I read one word of it. Something like that would be awesome to see, put together with all new never before seen footage.

CA, you've still got time, and this could generate a ton of interest. I watched the RTW video nonstop for like 3 days. :skull: :yes:

Yea, those were faction previews and they did some for MTW2 as well if you remeber, I think they did Byzantines, Russia, and someone else I can't remeber.

I'm all for that to, I mean they are already on diary 3. Assuming 4 and 5 come out between now and december something has to fill janurary. Might as well be preview faction videos (until we get demo)

I believe they will run faction previews through IGN again.

I watched them so much for M2:TW. They made me sign up here! :grin2:

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Originally Posted by Polemists

Yea, those were faction previews and they did some for MTW2 as well if you remeber, I think they did Byzantines, Russia, and someone else I can't remeber.

I'm all for that to, I mean they are already on diary 3. Assuming 4 and 5 come out between now and december something has to fill janurary. Might as well be preview faction videos (until we get demo)

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I didn't follow TW on the build up to M2:TW.

Nice to hear they continued that advertising route, I loved it. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Monk

For you vets think back a number of years to before CA released RTW.

Remember the cinematic video they made that basically ran down half the factions on the map (certainly the more interesting ones), gave a breif view of their armies in action, a brief description of who they were, and a very simplistic idea of how they could succeed? It was like a faction preview video. After seeing that, the manuel for the game paled in comparison. I don't think I read one word of it. Something like that would be awesome to see, put together with all new never before seen footage.

CA, you've still got time, and this could generate a ton of interest. I watched the RTW video nonstop for like 3 days. :skull: :yes:

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OOOHHH...where is this RTW video?

i think that most of the total war manuals have been ok (granted that ive only played medieval 1 and rome), if not exceptional. However, the greatest game manual ive ever seen is that for Hearts of Iron (another strategy game). Sure, there's a ton of typos but
a) it has a personal tone
b) it weighs about a kilo
c) everything in it is relevant!

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Originally Posted by LadyAnn

Why do you need a manual when you have the ORG? :P

Annie

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These are my sentiments exactly, m'lady. You said it right:2thumbsup:.

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Why do you need a manual when you have the ORG?

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because everyone on org will be to busy playing the game to write anything? :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Polemists

because everyone on org will be to busy playing the game to write anything? :laugh4:

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Indeed; I certainly intend to be. ~D


Note to self: Must remember to inform TosaInu I'm taking a leave of absence come February 3rd.... ~;)

Hay! See! The Game is delayed! It is not too late to hope for improvement…especially for the SF Edition.

Somehow,with a multiplayer campaign map and bug fixes I doubt Game Manual came into thier minds. I might be surprise but at this rate we are lucky we get a video every 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Polemists

Somehow,with a multiplayer campaign map and bug fixes I doubt Game Manual came into thier minds. I might be surprise but at this rate we are lucky we get a video every 3 weeks.

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I would not swear it, but one might reasonably expect that they have a technical writing staff that only works on things like that. Adding Multiplayer will surely require some rewrites, even if they send it out of house.
:yes:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I would not swear it, but one might reasonably expect that they have a technical writing staff that only works on things like that. Adding Multiplayer will surely require some rewrites, even if they send it out of house.
:yes:

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You would think so, but I've learned never to underestimate a game company's ability to release thinner and thinner manuals with less and less info. One would think they had a dedicated staff whose sole job it is to try and release sa little info as possible on how their game works.

Blind ignorance and experimenting to learn what works artificially extends gameplay by atleast a dozen or so hours :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

You would think so, but I've learned never to underestimate a game company's ability to release thinner and thinner manuals with less and less info. One would think they had a dedicated staff whose sole job it is to try and release sa little info as possible on how their game works.

Blind ignorance and experimenting to learn what works artificially extends gameplay by atleast a dozen or so hours :laugh4:

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I think they all started taking a page from Microsoft’s book. Practically no documentation. You bought it but how it works is our secret!

I am sorry, but I remember the old days (circa 1985) the program came on one floppy disk but the manual weighed 3lbs.

I appreciate them saving trees, (since it is illegal to make paper from hemp*) but a little more information can be a good thing.


*not advocating this product as a drug. Industrial Hemp (grown by Jefferson and Washington) and later outlawed by money and lobbying efforts of the timber industry.

Yea

See that's my point. If multiplayer was a release day feature, then yes they'd have to add the standard ten pages that go over all of what you don't want and none of what you want.

You get:

"To select your army, move your mouse pointer over them, and click"

Rather then something like a excerpt, a famous quote, or even a surprise little tactic.

As Multiplayer isn't on release day, I can't see them adding ten pages of info only to have to add at the end.

"Look forward to this surprising and fantastic feature this summer"

What irks me is that the manual never goes into enough detail about actual game mechanics. They give you basic controls, which are easy enough to work out anyway. They tell you what the menus do, which is obvious. They also tend to a paint a very broad picture about various game mechanics and strategies without fully explaining them.

For instance I have played Medieval 2 for hours and I have yet to work out how exactly the limit on agents works. I also don't know how exactly trade goods and things work, or guilds.

It took the good people opn this very website to even start to explain how some of the more obscure elements of gameplay work.

My personal theory is that they avoid mentioning how the game is supposed to work so no one notices when it goes wrong.

Rome total wars manual was superb, are you kidding me? so picky you people nowadays :clown:

Frankly, who reads the damn things anyway?
A game that requires reading the manual is a sign that it is either very poorly designed or a simulation. Face it, these days manuals consist of stuff you already know or can figure out inside ten minutes of playing. First few pages are typically just downright insulting to read, the writers assuming the intellectual understanding of the reader is that of someone who spends most of his time in a room where the walls are made of rubber.

Not be entirely negative, tutorials have generally gotten pretty good too.

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Frankly, who reads the damn things anyway?
A game that requires reading the manual is a sign that it is either very poorly designed or a simulation. Face it, these days manuals consist of stuff you already know or can figure out inside ten minutes of playing. First few pages are typically just downright insulting to read, the writers assuming the intellectual understanding of the reader is that of someone who spends most of his time in a room where the walls are made of rubber.

Not be entirely negative, tutorials have generally gotten pretty good too.

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You seem to miss the point of many people here. We want a manual with good documentation of the game mechanics, which precise information about key aspects of the game and clear data of units and stuff. Thanks to the .org many important things very uncovered by long investigations, but how much easier would it have been if we had them explained by CA firsthand. Mod makers faced huge challenges in their quests. There has been some help by some members of CA which was much appreciated, but it could do only so much.

Please CA, give us a great manual with good documentation. Your tutorials have become very good at introducing new and old players into the world of Totalwar. But the reveal only the surface, while we want to understand the inner workings.

Regards
OA

do a online manual thats on the disc or the website, saves paper