Strategies for fighting AS?

I'm playing a Romani campaign, and right now I'm fighting the Arche Seleukeia in Egypt and the middle east...and I'm having a real struggle against them. It's 162 BCE and I've reached the Marian reforms, but their units are just so tough that it's almost impossible to beat them without taking massive casualties in the process. When I take such heavy casualties, I'm forced to go back to the nearest city and retrain them, during which time AS sends more troops for me to fight. Any advice on how to avoid this vicious cycle? -M

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Originally Posted by Mulceber

I'm playing a Romani campaign, and right now I'm fighting the Arche Seleukeia in Egypt and the middle east...and I'm having a real struggle against them. It's 162 BCE and I've reached the Marian reforms, but their units are just so tough that it's almost impossible to beat them without taking massive casualties in the process. When I take such heavy casualties, I'm forced to go back to the nearest city and retrain them, during which time AS sends more troops for me to fight. Any advice on how to avoid this vicious cycle? -M

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Don't take an enemy army directly if you don't have to-that's the best I've learned playing Pahlava.

with regards to fighting phalanxes in-battle, it's a pretty difficult thing to do. the old, "pin em down and flank and fire" tactic is the most obvious thing, but it can obviously get extremely difficult, especially with the wide phalanxes outright blocking troop movements on the field. in my experience against the AS it takes a lot of all round heavy units that can stand up to their sarissas in a pitched battle. i generally engage with my heaviest (defense wise) troops and do my best to encircle the enemy, making sure not to outstretch myself and to engage any aforementioned "blocking units" if i run into them. expect heavy casualties though with this method, so i suggest seeing if someone else can help with that

likewise ill throw in some advice for the actual campaign. first off, dont forget to recruit levies as well, since they, whilst (generally) not being up to par with your roman troops, are likely to be easily retrained and, as such, might be your best bet as fort garrisons. you could always do your best with your legions, and if they achieve their objectives or need retraining, send a levy army in to take their place whilst the armies head back to rome.

as for any other ideas for the campaign, and im pretty sure others would suggest or at least think this, you can always send an army by sea to overtake a poorly defended settlement, destroy everything and pull out before an army can crush your own, and make sure to try and redo it over and over to hurt their finances and send their forces into confusion. after all, one more army chasing your raiders means one less army to take on back at the front. hope this helps and good luck

If AS is properly big, and lacks proper rivals, you cannot beat them on the battle map. There won't be a one decisive battle, which will enable you to wipe up the rest of their empire. Instead, get a bunch of spies, and concentrate them in settlements you want to cause a rebellion in. Get a second army to raid the coast. If their in India, take Egypt, get a boat in the Indian Ocean and head to India and raze it. That'll REALLY distract them. Don't bring a FM along as this will basically be a sacrificial army....

Really, play strategically, have a grand strategy, and don't rely on one decisive battle.

Hit their largest cities if possible.
Also, try to locate their troop production facilities. If possible, send a raiding party to storm the town and smash said facilities, then pack up and leave.
Hit them in as many places as you can as quickly as you can. Enslave or exterminate as many people as you can. Enslaving is better sometimes because you get to keep the people. Try to avoid direct battles unless you are defending your lands.

You don't win a war against strong Arche SeleukeiaS(or Ptolemaioi) in the battle map. You must win them in the campaign map. Make more armies than they, make peace with the rest of the factions, attack their cities instead of armies. Try to hurt them economically. Once their money runs out it is much easier to take them down.

When I played as Baktria I went for AS on my frist turn, and managed to push them all the way out of what is modern day Iran, so all they had was the Levant. But that was because they didn't have many elite troops.

However since you are Romani, they have had tons of time to build a ton of huge armies with elites most likely. If you really want to elminate them, I would raid them until you have several decent sized armies, and then attack a ton of their cities all at once. You could also pay off some others, like the Parthians or the Armenians, to attack them when you are attacking them.

Like has been said before, this war is won on the campaign map.

As the Romans, you have to fight AS like they did in history - slowly wear them down in grueling battles and beat them in the war of attrition. The Romans are stubborn sobs - they can take a crap load of casualties and come back the next year for more.

Well, there are several things you can do in such situations.

First of all, if the AS is a juggernaut (which I assume it is), then I suggest you don't taske them head-on. That is, unless you have infinite stubborness and patience, as well as mnai on order to raise several elite fullstacks. Try and take small chunks out of them, until you strike the finishing blow. Here are some steps you can take in order to achieve your goal:

1) Start recruiting many spies and assasins and send them over to secluded AS territories. Use the assasins to kill their diplomats and lame FM's, while use your spies to infiltrate their border cities 2-3 at a time in order to cause them to rebel.
2) Build up some good fleets, destroy theirs and blockade their ports.
3) Use amphibious assaults with good armies at big cities that are poorly defended (most of the cases), like Antiocheia, Alexandreia and the like and raize them to the ground. Then, retreat again and move on to the next target. This way, by destroying their main recruiting centres, you will paralyze their main bases of recruitment from which they draw their best troops.
4) After you see their economy is taking the down roll, capture some of their border cities and fortify yourself. In liaison with amphibious assaults, take out their armies one-by-one.
5) Start launching a full-offensive, with stacks sweeping over them. When you take Aigyptos, Anatolia and the Levant, they should already be in a crisis.
6) Finish the job by ripping their beating heart, namely Babylonia and Seleukeia. You can either hold on to them, or sack them and then let them rebel or gift them to another faction.

Have fun!

Maion

I know this is unconventional and ahistorical for the Romani, but try out an all-mounted army. Train some Scythian Riders (best HAs available to Romani - 6 missile attack, very good stamina; pretty long range and most importantly, they have lances, which means that after they have gone through all the arrows, they can still pack a punch) in Kallatia and some heavy cavalry. The best thing you could do is recruit a bunch of Eastern Mercenary Generals. Their bodyguard is Kinsmen Cavalry - pretty much the most powerful cavalry unit, with a possible exception of cataphracts. Also, as they are generals, the bodyguards will replenish after every round of slugging, no matter how much beating they have taken.

1. Build up multiple legions before you send the first one to the front.
2. If your legions start to get worn down, merge them. Use one as a source of men for another two legions.
3. If you notice one army is running out of soldiers, recruit reinforcements or a new one and ship them over.
4. The strategically important cities of the east are Antiocheia, Alexandria, Seleukeia, Babylon and Baktra. That's where they build all their shiny Hellenic elite units. Raid them.
5. Try to keep your frontline short. Conquer Egypt at one time, than defend it at the neck east of Alexandria. Than conquer Asia Minor, and so you can make a double assault from two directions to their heartlands Syria and Babylonia.

if you can build hoplites
(ANY SORT levy or classical)
use them as auxilary (kyrene and sicilia can produce them with L3 regionals)
spread them 6 deep and they're unmovable by a phalanx until they start pushing as in attacking outright but still would survive long enough for your legionaires to flank them.

Quite simple

4-5 phalanx hoplites or some sort with light infantry or somethign behind them (2 stretched cohorts would work) with 8-10 deep legion cohorts all stacked on the flanks and horsemen behind the hoplites
after 10 or so mintues (all units in defense mode) the phalanx would be exhausted or tired and order ur flanking legionares to flank them by 1 going outwards and 1 charging then the flanking one could aim torwards the center.
Once the center turns to attack your legionaires, order hoplites/ auxiliaries to attack
after a min or so (half would prolly route by now) calvalry charge and instant route...
easy :D ive done it A LOT!!!! well itll prolly grind your legionaires odwn somewhat but make sure every time designate 2 or 3 cities for recruitment near the front lines and 1 or 2 back at italy...

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions, guys - I'll be sure to try some of these strategies out next time I load up EB - definitely some good ideas, both tactically and strategically. -M

All good ideas, and also remember that you can bribe cities. By this stage in the game I'm presuming that your economy is pretty well developed, so what's a few hundred thousand between friends?

I think that few hundred thousand can be put to better use by hiring 60 units for a 3 full stack mercenary army. :p

Also, if it helps analyze strategy, here's a picture of *basically* what the campaign map looks like:

https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e...e162copy-1.jpg

Nice map! :2thumbsup:

You defeated the Germani juggernaut?

You look bigger and better than them. If they have lots of phalanxes my suggestion is to build lots of legionary heavy infantry supported by at least three units of Prodromoi (Thraikoi are the best) or some good flanking cavalry. Focus your power on routing a few phalanxes and their auxiliaries first, bypass the rest and do it methodically during battle until they are all dead. Don't engage them unless you plan on taking them soon, since the toll will be heavy.

Drag the Sauromatae into your war: HA's are certainly their achilles heel, besides it will cause them further distraction while you plan on beating them seriously. Pay them as much gold as they demand since your economy should be robust by now.

Empires are not all about lands, mind you. The AS might seem smaller, but that may also not be the case, as a great deal of the east isn't shown on the map Mulceber posted.

Maion

^ Maion is right. The map he posted barely even covers Saudi Arabia...and the AS silver death empire stretches all the way to India. It's at least 3-4x bigger than what's shown in the map.

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Nice map!

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Thanks

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You defeated the Germani juggernaut?

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well, there's actually 2 provinces left, but they actually weren't that hard this time around - I've fought them when they're really difficult and THAT was a nightmare.

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Drag the Sauromatae into your war: HA's are certainly their achilles heel, besides it will cause them further distraction while you plan on beating them seriously. Pay them as much gold as they demand since your economy should be robust by now.

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Good idea. I may try to do that - although I've tried bribing them in the past as well, and it hasn't work...maybe it's time for a little forced diplomacy... Although on the flip side, that will likely leave the Sauromatae able to contest land in Asia Minor/Mesopotamia, and I'd rather keep that land for myself. It might work to drag Pahlava and the Hai into the war though...

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The AS might seem smaller, but that may also not be the case, as a great deal of the east isn't shown on the map Mulceber posted.

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Very True - in my game they stretch all the way to India, although they're having their territory there contested by Pahlava. Sorry if the map I posted gave the wrong idea about their size. -M

There's no need to be sorry. Where did you get that map from, actually? Just curious...

Maion

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Where did you get that map from, actually? Just curious...

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I just googled "Mediterranean Blank Map" and got this:

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/greekh...rraneansea.gif

then photoshopped it to represent the cities and factions in EB. -M

Excellent, thank you very much!

Maion

Well if anyone's interested in creating maps like this, I just made a blank version - it's just like the version I posted a link to, but it has all the cities marked on it (easily the most annoying part of modifying the original picture).

https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e...pblankcopy.jpg -M

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Originally Posted by Mulceber

Also, if it helps analyze strategy, here's a picture of *basically* what the campaign map looks like:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e...e162copy-1.jpg

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Nasty roman filth, makedonia will return to it's home with a vengeance!

My current favorite strategy against the AS is to hire Misthophoroi Phalangitai and Galatikoi Tindanotae (Galatian "Wild Men" Infantry - those naked dudes that look just like Gaesatae, with roughly the same stats and the 2 hitpoints) mercenaries and use them in conjunction with a lot of cavalry. I stretch the Mercenary Phalangites to three lines and when the Seleukid phalanxes engage mine, I send the cavalry to charge in their backs. After the first charge, the Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Klerouchoi Phalangitai usually rout. The Pezhetairoi and Argyraspides takes some more time though. Often times a single successful charge from their rear will rout them, but only if there is something else also lowering their morale, such as other units routing, fire arrows, artillery fire, vast numerical superiority, elephants, chariots, or infantry units that scare nearby enemy.

If were you, I would send in some spies to infiltrate the major troop-producing AS settlements and then some assassins to sabotage those MICs so that the Grey Death will be denied of its elites. Especially Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou. Those are a tough nut to crack. They are the strongest spear infantry in the game and their defence is the highest among all EB infantry units. They aren't too difficult to rout though. I remember routing them when they still had 40 out of 60 men and the only reason why they routed was because of the fact that they were "distraught over the number of enemy" and because I charged them in the back. Still cowardly though, for supposedly the absolute best AS has.

Actually, in my current campaign, I am engaged in a "Cold War" with the Sweboz. They are currently the number two in military ranking, right after me. They are even in front of AS, who at the time I checked the military rankings scroll, only lost a part of Asia Minor (right now, I pushed AS out of Mesopotamia, all of Asia Minor, and all of Armenia). Anyway, I have about 40-50 spies and assassins (not exaggerating a bit) in all of the Sweboz territories, sabotaging all MICs and income-giving buildings. I am also causing revolts, especially whenever I have assassins left over to sabotage happiness buildings. The Sweboz haven't done anything in the past 15 years due to my incessant sabotage. They haven't been able to train as much as a single unit in all of those years. It almost feels like cheating. By now I have five all-elite armies on both the Eastern and Western Sweboz borders with the msot promising generals leading them, all waiting patiently for my signal to begin the offensive. I have conquered all of the territory around them, including all of Gaul and all of Eastern Europe/Baltic.