XL campaign advice

if you have a campaign going that you're really happy with but most of your competition has been eliminated before you even make it to the high period, do you start over?

i'm asking from the perspective of never having finished a campaign playing with the XL mod. i'd love to be able to play as Bohemia or Aragon, acquire 8-10 provinces, and turtle and build up the infrastructure until the late era hits but it seems like every time i try, 2-3 factions turn into super powers and eliminate most of the other factions before the high period hits. when it gets down to 8-10 factions, i start thinking about how much better a new game with(insert random faction here) might be and start over.

currently, i'm playing again as Bohemia, have the 8-10 base of provinces that i was wanting, two 8 star and one 6 star generals,but it's 1180 and England and the Byzantines have wiped out all of the other typical heavy hitters. France, HRE, Spain, Hungary, Poland, Venice, Sicily, and the three Muslim factions have all been eliminated. the only other factions that seem to even have a prayer of growing into major players are Kiev and Novogrod and saying that they have a prayer is probably stretching it.

even with factions reemerging, it seems like around 90% of the factions that re-emerge in the games that i've played end up getting wiped out again in 2-3 years. i guess my questions are "will the AI adjust and make the factions stronger when they reemerge in the high and late periods" and "am i the only one that has a hard time finishing a game when it gets down to 10-12 factions(with only 3-4 of those factions having a realistic shot at controlling the map)....even though they'd *really* love to finally be able to build and use those gothic knights or lancers"?

TIA

Well chris34au,

Have you ever considered trying another version of MTW? That might change your experience of the game, you know….

There are a few MTW-mods out there that have roughly the same setting as XL does and to me it sounds like a change (however temporarily) might be a good thing for you here. You obviously tried XL and it seems that you are not being entirely satisfied with what it has to offer you. How about trying some of the others instead? Apart from XL there are the BKB supermod, WesW medmod and of course there is my own version as well, MTW-Redux (there also are a few mods under development, the MTW-pocket-mod released a beta recently for instance). They are all available here at the Org. Perhaps you should try out some of these instead?

Just a friendly suggestion, but lets face it; XL won’t change its character or internal mechanics just because you play another faction. You have clearly proved that yourself. As for your two questions; I guess it's a no and no.... :wink2:


- Cheers

lol maybe that's it. i think that the XL mod is great but i have wanted to check out some of the other mods that are out there. the fact that the XL mod(and MTW, in general) are so good may be part of the problem.there's so many interesting factions to choose from that when a campaign starts dragging a little or looking like it's going to be decided really early, i'm always tempted to start a new campaign with a different faction.

thanks for the link. i'd definitely like to check out some different mods. even though MTW's been out for years, i still love to play.

My only suggestion for XL is to get the Tyberius add-on if possible (in which buildings take less time to construct), then build up to a Rookery and Bawdyhouse, and try to influence the potential superpowers in a negative way by:

1. using spies to screw with their economy (via happiness) and
2. pruning their generals via assassinations.

I do this to keep big powers in check (for their neighbours' sakes!) until I'm ready to make a move.

It's a highly artificial way of keeping some balance (and you'll churn through a few spies and assassins), but it's better than carefully and slowly planning out a campaign only to find that the Swedes have become monstrous and are rampaging through everyone's territory and trashing all their earnings capabilities.

Alternatively, you could play out a few games to see who the common aggressors and/or rich kids are, and then change their expansionist/aggressive tendencies via Gnome Editor. I can't remember how exactly. I've never done it, but I think it's possible. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

i really appreciate the tips. i don't have any experience with the gnome editor but i see a lot of people talking about using it on here. i haven't had any luck installing the Tyberius patch either. i tried to install the XL/Tyberius 3.0 patch the other night but when i'd go to play the game, the main menu was just the regular MTW game. i've tried several times with different versions and i never have any problems installing XL but i can't seem to get the Tyberius add on to work.

i'm definitely going to try to read up on the gnome editor though. i'd even like to keep trying to get the Tyberius patch installed. i'm just not sure what else to try.thanks again for all of the tips.

I thought I should make an important note here.

I played MTW:VI 2.01 whilst waiting for XL 3.0 to download.

I noted the difference between the two, especially in how quickly superpowers came to their height in XL.
In EVERY campaign, Denmark, if not completely destroyed by myself before 1130, became ruler of 65% of the map.
If the Danes were lost in early, then the Almoravids or Castilians took their place.
On one occasion in my 100+ games in XL 3.0 did the English become a superpower. No other faction managed.

Similarly, every time there was a re-emergence, and such an event was terribly rare even in factions spreading from Norway to Khazar, the emergence was wiped out in one battle.

There is one reason for this alone.

Every faction attempted to steamroll. The AI seemed to produce everything it could in absolute mass and roll over every competitor, their navies were always substantial by the time they had their tenth province.
By the time they achieved fifteen provinces, they had a 1200 man army in every province, and 5 more taking over the world one step at a time.

This proved to be a boring wave of huge, 6000 strong armies all over the campaign map.

They became absolutely invincible by 1230, the Mongols never had a chance.

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HOWEVER! I have no idea what Tyberius has done, but with his 2.0 mod applied, XL is relieved of this problem and predictability.

I have played four campaigns so far - in each I never saw a faction before 1210 that did not collapse to rebellion and civil war after taking it's eighteenth province.
Kingdoms are less stable, and mass-production simply does not occur at all.
Things seem so much more sensible and the larger a power gets, the more fragile it becomes, including the players' own.

Please try XL 3.0 with Tyberius Mod. I will never be tired of it, it has removed all issues I found with XL originally.

And the units do not gall your eyes anymore!


( I just read your last post Chris - I don't know anything of TYB 3.0, I use 2.0, and there is no issue.)

i was finally able to get the Tyberius to work(after changing the file path directory before install) and i really love the look of it. i still haven't decided who to try in my first campaign but i'm leaning towards Scotland or Portugal. i'd love to play as the HRE(the black and gold looks great,imo) bit i hate starting out with a faction that's huge before you even take your first province.

i've noticed the same thing with the Danes in XL 3.0. in my last campaign, they almost single handidly eliminated the HRE before 1130 and even had a couple of provinces in North Africa around the same time. the Turks seemed like just as much of a threat, as they'd already wiped out the Byzantines and taken a few of the Steppe provinces. in other campaigns, it seems like England, Castile Leon, the Byzantines, and occasionally France or Sicily were about the only factions that consistently turned into super powers(along with the Danes and/or Turks) before the high era hit.

i'm really looking forward to seeing the differences in playing a campaign with Tyberius' patch installed. i can already tell that it's going to be prettier to look at. if the patch also helps to keep more factions in the game longer, that's probably an even bigger plus with me than the cosmetic changes and new units. it's always been tough for me to finish campaigns when it's down to 8-10 factions left in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chris34au

,but it's 1180 and England and the Byzantines have wiped out all of the other typical heavy hitters.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by chris34au

they almost single-handedly eliminated the HRE before 1130

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Sounds to me like you're always starting in the Early period - in addition to all the other suggestions, you might try starting in High or Late, as the later time periods change the nature of the gameplay considerably. I enjoy playing against a more high-tech AI, I'd bet you you would also. Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geezer57

Sounds to me like you're always starting in the Early period - in addition to all the other suggestions, you might try starting in High or Late, as the later time periods change the nature of the gameplay considerably. I enjoy playing against a more high-tech AI, I'd bet you you would also. Cheers!

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i've tried a few High era campaigns(Bulgaria, the Byzantines, Teutonic Order, Crusaders) and i loved every one of them but in every case, it was hard not to think about how much better it would be i could play with these factions in Early and have a lot more time to turtle and build infrastructure. i like to be able to start a campaign with one or two provinces and know that i have plenty of time for expansion....especially if i'm playing with a faction that will be getting really good units in the Late era.

that probably sounds lame or even OCD or whatever but my main goal when i start a campaign is to see what kind of empire i can build before the game's over and i hate to feel like i'm cheating myself out of 120 years of building infrastructure by starting in High.

Haha, don't worry bro. Everyone likes to do that when they start out. I used to think I was a bit OCD when the old-school players used to recommend Late to me without success. Now it's the only era I play. In time, who knows - maybe I'll go back to building from scratch.

lol this game really brings out the OCD in me. all it takes is a few crappy heirs or some other sign that i'm off to a not so great start and i'm usually restarting the campaign.

i'd love to try a campaign with the Swiss or Burgundy in late. i just wasn't sure if i'd feel really rushed by playing a Late era campaign. if the Teutonic Order started with a citadel in High, instead of a castle, i think i could actually finish a campaign with them. it also frustrates me that Pomerania or Prussia(whichever province has +1 valor for Teutonic Knights) only has a fort in High. it seems like it'd be almost impossible to build everything that you'd need to be able to get it going. but maybe all you need is a keep and a chapter house. i'm not even really sure how you get Teutonic Knights.

To get teutonic knights you need: baronial court, armorers’ guild, horse breeders’ guild. To get all that, you need a citadel. Teutonic foot knights do not require the horse breeders' guild, but I don't know if they get the +1 location bonus or not. The teutonic order and the Crusader faction are the only ones who can get them AFAIK.

Alternately, you can launch a crusade, and just hope some teutonic knights show up. I forget which factions can get them, but HRE seems a likely bet.

thanks for the info(and for taking the time to make such a great unit guide for XL). i've always wanted to do a campaign with the HRE but i hate how they start out with so many provinces. does anyone know if it's possible to vacate some of the provinces at the start of a campaign without taking a major hit to your emperor's influence? i was also kinda curious about how their line of succession works? is a new emperor elected, even if the previous emperor had heirs or are they only elected when he dies without leaving an heir? if it's the former, i'm guessing that your best generals are elected every time your emperor dies...which kinda sucks.

sorry for asking so many stupid questions. i've looked in HRE guides and different threads trying to find these answers but i've never had any luck.

I believe that there is a 1 point influence loss for every two provinces lost. However, I think this does not apply if you lose the province to rebels. I haven't verified that myself. The HRE is vulnerable to rebellion and civil war anyway, so loss of influence could cost you. Of course, provoking rebellion/civil war would be one way of getting rid of provinces.

I really don't know about he sucession question.

thanks. i may try to start up a campaign with them and abandon 4-5 provinces , just to see what happens. if i do, i'll go ahead and wait on the emperor to die to see what happens with his heirs. if it's possible to abandon some provinces without taking a major hit on influence and a new emperor's only elected when there's not an heir, i think that an HRE campaign would probably be a lot of fun to play.