Just call me... king of nubs.

Baktria... A tiny remote part of the great Seleukid kingdom in an exotic and rich part of the world. A faction with great potential, and a faction leader with great potential! For to my knowledge only 2 other factions start with a leader young enough to have any future potential in EB's timeframe.

A faction i have never played before. I start by combining my army and taking a Seleukid city just west of my capital, as i saw the Pahlava attacking another city and therefore an opportunity. 'Twas an easy battle with few casualties. During the battle, i noticed that the Baktrian bodyguard cavalry looks fantastic, amazing, mesmerizing even! "I can't wait to try it out in battle" i thought to myself.

And so, i march south to take the next closest Seleukid city that my allies are not interested in taking. On the way i am stopped by a young Seleukid general who is obviously very wealthy, because he has hired every mercenary to be had!

Outnumbered 2-1 and outmatched by superior troops, i knew i would have to use every man in my army, but i was not worried, for it would be a chance to test out these fantastic looking Baktrian bodyguard cavalry.

The battle was going fantastic for my side. My abundant archers had taken out all enemy cavalry except for their generals guard, and inflicted terrible casualties on their light infantry and skirmishers. Their mercenary pezhetairoi clashed with my levy phalanx units, and as my Persian archers scurried around the left side of my army to pepper their backsides with arrows, my Persian archer-spearmen guarding my right flank were engaged by enemy peltastai. My medium cavalry was occupied elsewhere on the battlefield, and with my archer-spearmen being cut to pieces by superior hand to hand infantry and nothing in reserve to help them, i knew the time had come to finally see my general in action.

I moved him around the right and positioned him and his guard behind the enemy peltastai. I hovered my cursor over the peltastai and gave a thunderous right click. They began to charge, spears lowered and shouting their warcries, with enemy soldiers fleeing the field on either side the final nail in the enemy army's coffin was about to be inserted. My cavalry clashed with the enemy peltastai and...

DISASTER! The king was thrown from his horse and fell dead upon the ground. The peltastai had routed instantly, possibly before his cavalry had even touched them. Out of 83 men in the unit, only 1 died. The king himself.

I'm not going to save and reload because, well, it wasn't all that unrealistic. It could have happened in real life i guess. What bugs me though is that the general was middle aged, high command, high influence, had several "+1 to hitpoints" traits, several members of his retinue which increased the units experience, and not 1 single trait that gives him even -1 to his hitpoints, and it was a wavering unit of mercenary peltastai who killed him, even though they were engaged with another unit from the front, charged from behind and routed immediately on impact. And my kings unit was fresh and had not been engaged in combat or been hit by arrows or javelins or in any way weakened throughout the entire battle prior to this engagement with the peltastai.

:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:

Sounds like what happened to that guy (Taponojum?) and his KH bodyguard.

Once, I had a nomad client ruler general in my KH campaign that led my forces against the Sarmatian hordes. During the siege of Tanais, I charged him into the rear of the enemy force in the square. There were less than a hundred left. Just as he was about to hit the enemy line, I got the dreaded cutscene, and what happened was that as soon as his horse reached the raised wooden platform that barbarian villages have in the center, it collapsed and bucked forward, throwing him right into the waiting spears. Seriously, he hadn't even actually engaged an enemy when he died (the cutscene was several seconds long, so I saw for myself that he was at least 8 feet from the nearest guy when it happened)! I RPed it as his horse breaking its leg against the platform and throwing the general.

If it were some noob recruitable general who i could replace immediately i wouldn't mind... but my faction leader... and in 271BC... and to a unit that was tired and wavering already, and his first engagement in a battle!

I'll never use an early Baktrian bodyguard in battle ever again, even if he's got 3 chevrons and is hale and hearty like mine!

I must be incredibly lucky. Never once in all of my RTW experiences have I ever had generals die like that. usually it has to be charging face first into spears or something similarly desperate to earn a death like that. I've had them die in melee after losing some bodyguard, but never the only death in the unit.

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Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

I must be incredibly lucky. Never once in all of my RTW experiences have I ever had generals die like that. usually it has to be charging face first into spears or something similarly desperate to earn a death like that. I've had them die in melee after losing some bodyguard, but never the only death in the unit.

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I am likewise lucky. I've used ROMAN bodyguards as an effective cavalry force before and NEVER lost a general. Well I did once, in back in 0.8.x

LOL!!!!!
This is hilarious.:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
This is why infantry FMs kick ass, right here.:laugh4::laugh4:

I've lost not one, but TWO generals (Consular Roman bodyguard) that way, and both were from charging into the BACK of a Phalanx. :/ I hate it so much when i lose one of my generals. Good ones don't exactly grow on trees...

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Originally Posted by gamerdude873

and both were from charging into the BACK of a Phalanx.

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In my current Kart-Hadast campaign I was in battle against the invading Ptolemoi, and when I sent my FM in battle to charge at the back of a phalanx quite a few of my FM's bodyguard died, luckily my FM managed to live.

Well I think that phenomenon can arise if the charge makes it far enough through the phalanx to reach the rows that are actively engaged in fighting, thus possibly getting one of the RTW insta-pike deaths. THAT I've seen happen in vanilla and I never wanted to see if that changed in EB (I figured it didn't). I can't explain the KH FM deaths though since those are infantry.

Its all about luck really. I mean i was playing a KH campaign and the FM that i had with my army was the first one throught the gates got separted from his bodyguards and killed like 50 ppl while totally surrounded. The next battle a diff FM was the only one to die the whole time.

Hey, it is just a back luck and after all it is pretty realistic. What troubles me is the exact opposite: I use Roman family members as the ONLY cavalry (well, sometimes I have some Curepos or Illyrioi Hippeis as cav. auxilia) in my campaign and routinely charge into enemy units. Contrary to general experience which blames Equites Consuares as crap cavalry, I have found them performing rather well and so far have have not lost a single family member in an event like that... No heroic death for the glory of the Republic, what a shame :no:

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Originally Posted by desert

Sounds like what happened to that guy (Taponojum?) and his KH bodyguard.

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Haha, as I was reading the OP's post, I couldn't help but keep nod and think "I know exactly how you feel man!"

I started a Hayasdan campaign, and lost all my FM's but 3 to crazy unlucky scenarios by 260bc.

Including Samas Yervundi, FM. Charging into the back of a wavering,tired phalanxe...being thrown off his horse from the surprisingly broad and powerful backside of an AS phalangai.

*Pours a bottle of 40* One for me...and one for my homies.

I have only seen something like that when I was playing RTR. A macedonian FM charged into the back of some triarii and dies instantly - he was the only loss from his unit:wall:

However I didn't experience anything like that in EB (yet:sweatdrop:).
Infact im suprised how long enemy FMs need to fall:whip:

Enemy FM's have extra hitpoints (just like they have extra command stars).

I only had this problem once. In my very first EB campaign with Saba. My heir charged a unit of Arabian skirmishers and died instantly.

I was too stubborn to adopt family members and wanted the youngest sun of my faction leader to take the crown next. It was only a matter of waiting out until he turned 16. Unfortunately my faction leader died when his son was 15.
Al my FM's (3sons and a daughter) were minors and that was the end of that campaign...

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Originally Posted by Mediolanicus

Enemy FM's have extra hitpoints (just like they have extra command stars).

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Really? I kinda thought it was strange that they had so many good generals(ok well 3-4 command stars is not much but usually more than the generals I had) and nededd 5 minutes of beating by hetairoi after their bodyguards went down to follow them.

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Originally Posted by Mediolanicus

I only had this problem once. In my very first EB campaign with Saba. My heir charged a unit of Arabian skirmishers and died instantly.

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Whatta:inquisitive: An Infantry general with heavely armored soldiers killed on inpact??~:confused:
Didn't those skirmishers fire at the moment(could explain)..

I think i have read of a way how to avoid such "suprises". Simply order the general to charge and then press the "rally" command (blows the horn) so the general stops for a moment but his bodyguards continue to charge - atleast he wont be in the first line.

I've had my share of heart-breaking FM losses in EB, but nothing compares to a guy I had in Rise of Persia. Reskotourme the Conqueror. He was only 40 and had basically taken out the Illyrians and Scythians single-handedly. He was involved in a minor battle and a stray javelin killed him.

They had like 50 men.

:(

The worst EB FM loss was when I was up in the Hindu Kush and an earthquake killed off one of em. He wasn't that spectacular, but it was early in the game and I sorta wanted as many family members as I could get.

I had that once in Vanilla, when playing as the Greek Cities.

As the Casse, my 10-influence, 10-management, 10-command faction leader Barae got killed by slingers.

Sounds like Phyross :D

And that's why I always use that 'horn' thing so that my FM could stay behind and let his bodyguards do the charging. After some terrible losses in M2TW (French FH charging the back of Peasant Archers just so that my FH could die?!?) I use it all the time.

It happens largely because of bad luck, as the probability of your general dying is very low, and after a couple of factors are taken into account, the rest, the majority is at the hands of the random number generator. So if you play EB enough, you should eventually have something like that. Also, I have noticed even the tougher FM mounted bodyguards will die in droves when "tired" or "very tired". it is even worse with "exhausted". All this can happen even if they are charging the back of a unit.

I lost a general charging wavering phalanx in the back with EB Romani

But by far the worst was how I lost Alexander in Alexander - Total War. I was trying to attack a group of persian peltasts, they routed immediately, but they ran towards Alexander, he charged and I saw him fall off his horse.:wall:

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

But by far the worst was how I lost Alexander in Alexander - Total War. I was trying to attack a group of persian peltasts, they routed immediately, but they ran towards Alexander, he charged and I saw him fall off his horse.:wall:

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Lol.. I think Persians would've been very very happy if this would've happened in real life! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

I lost a general charging wavering phalanx in the back with EB Romani

But by far the worst was how I lost Alexander in Alexander - Total War. I was trying to attack a group of persian peltasts, they routed immediately, but they ran towards Alexander, he charged and I saw him fall off his horse.:wall:

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I can see why its the worst-you lost your campaign right there (Alexander afterall).

This whole General lost theme made me curious:

How many of you use Assassins to "finish of .. "neutralize" enemy generals (above all FMs)??

Considering all thoose extra hit points (do captains get them aswell or not?) pluss extra command stars (and there effect on the enemies units capabilities) it seems more then reasenable to use any method or means to get them out of the way before the battle.:idea2:

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

I lost a general charging wavering phalanx in the back with EB Romani

But by far the worst was how I lost Alexander in Alexander - Total War. I was trying to attack a group of persian peltasts, they routed immediately, but they ran towards Alexander, he charged and I saw him fall off his horse.:wall:

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... Yeah ... I've had that happen in Vanilla. Its some sort of weird bug. It happens alot less in EB because generals tend to be more robust. I've seen Generals run through my lines and my KH FMs usually are always out front and very rarely ever die. I've lost two. One was over whelming odds and the other was bad luck on an siege assault.

Honestly I need to remember to not keep them out infront form the whole duration of the siege battle. Getting great generals killed in the city square happens to be more than other things. :sweatdrop: