Mine eyes have seen the glory... of the coming of the 4870

Warning... wall of text below! For geek eyes only!

In August 2007 my previous gaming rig went belly up (bad stick of RAM & my Shuttle SFF case's proprietary PSU was going flunky on me) so I was forced to build a brand spanking new gaming rig months before my planned upgrade. At the time there were no good deals on medium-high end 3D cards so I opted for a XFX 8600GT 256meg model to tide me over for 8-12 months. Fast forward a year and a half and the 8600GT has served me well despite it being a budget card. However I've officially grown sick of having to tweak settings in order to get smooth framerates for certain games and I was desperate to couple what I consider to be a decent gaming system with a 3D card that will really let it stretch its legs. And to be frank, the latest generation of 3D cards left me drooling uncontrollably this past holiday season.

Since their debut I've had my eyes on ATI's 4850 cards. They offer the best possible bang for the buck and having lived on both sides of the fence I agree with the notion that ATI cards offer superior 2D & 3D visual quality over Nvidia's offerings. However thanks to intense competition from Nvidia and the recent economic downturn (i.e. plummeting sales of electronics) high end 3D cards have never been more affordable. Suddenly 512meg 4870 cards are going for $200 or less and their 1gig brethren for under $250! My problem was regardless of whether I purchased a 4850 or 4870 I wanted one that sported an excellent custom cooler (let's face it, reference design coolers usually suck) and given my micro-ATX case one that would not dump all that hot air back inside the case. So I needed to look at a dual slot blower design. To be honest there's only one vendor that consistently produces great blower style custom coolers... HIS.

So for $241 after rebate this 1gig 4870 behemoth now sits in my case. Here's a few side by side shots to give you an idea of its size...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img249.imageshack.us/img249/...pidbig1gz5.jpg
https://img179.imageshack.us/img179/...pidbig2du0.jpg

Yes, it's a big card... a BIG card, 9.5" in length and heavy! It feels like a hefty brick of silicon, metal & plastic. So hefty in fact that it practically seated & locked itself in the PCI-ex slot without my help! If you can believe it despite its size it's still shorter than Nvidia's 260 & 280 cards by an inch or so and it actually fits comfortably in my SFF case.

Upon booting up I immediately noticed a sharper image & clearer text than the 8600GT offered. I also noticed the 'whoosh' of the blower. It's not bad at all but it is there, especially when it revs up the rpms for 3D games, it sounds like an extra case fan or two kicking in. And according to GPU-Z the HIS ICEQ+ cooler keeps the 4870 GPU running cooler than my 8600GT, roughly 50 degrees celsius at idle, 60 degrees at full load, very very impressive.

Fallout 3 runs like butter at 1680x1050 but with ALL the eye candy turned up, 4xAA and 16xAF enabled AND the ultra high resolution texture pack installed! I don't have Crysis or Far Cry 2 to check out but Bioshock & Company of Heroes: Opposing Forces look unbelievable now and run glassy smooth. No more notching down the graphics settings in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning during keep sieges & large skirmishes. And I can finally play Medieval 2 with maxxed eye candy, large/huge units and several armies on screen at once without it looking like a slide show... it feels like a totally different game. Pure joy.

Only thing I miss about the 8600GT is its lower power requirements and the ease with which I can set custom AA & AF settings for each of my games via Nvidia's drivers.

So was it worth it? Yes! With the arguable exception of my Intel E6550 I have never had an upgraded component perform so markedly superior to the one it replaced. In most cases the 4870 runs games upwards of 3-5 times faster than my 8600GT at the same resolution but with all the bells and whistles turned on, it's insane.

So this is what I've got running under the hood. Despite it's age it's still going strong and should hold me over for a long time to come. If anything I might consider upgrading the CPU in a year's time.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 overclocked to 2.80Ghz (7x multiplier w/400Mhz bus)
Cooler Master RR-LCH-P9E1 92mm UFO CPU Cooler (excellent & quiet CPU heatsink/fan)
HIS Hightech ICEQ4+ Turbo (H487QT1GP) Radeon HD 4870 1GB (using Catalyst 8.12 drivers)
Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R LGA 775 Intel G33 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
4gigs Corsair DDR2-800 XMS RAM (running @ 400Mhz w/4-4-4-12 2T timings)
Creative X-Fi Music sound card
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb hard drive
Samsung SH-S183L DVD+/-R Burner
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W Active PFC Power Supply (excellent PSU, only $40 after rebate! Can power latest generation of 3D cards)
Apevia X-QPACK2-NW-BK/500 SFF (Small Form Factor) case (comes w/500W PSU that's fine so long as you don't stress it out with power hungry components)
HP W2207 22" LCD monitor

I'm going to have to take a look at my case and see if could even fit that. :laugh4:

Looks like it might be a smart buy for Empires, though I'll wait a bit because I just made a big purchase.

Nice writeup, Spino - you've got me thinking about upgrades! :beam:

Do you have the 4870 or the 4870 X2? If you just have the 4870, think of what the 4870 X2 can do...

Yeah, the new mobility 4870s that were just released at the CES got me drooling.

They have an 80% Performance Increase from the mobility 3870. Also, its specs are actually comparable to those of the desktop 4870.

Seeing as how Nvidia is still keeping the 9800M GTX as their top end laptop GPU (which is just a Desktop 9600GT rebranded) I don't see how Nvidia can survive for much longer unless they come up with something new quickly. Their new GTX295 weren't that impressive either....

Well, you got me thinking about upgrading too.

I have:

C2D E 6320 (2 x 1,86GHz, [7 x 266 GHz]) with Intel standard cooler
Asus P5B MOBO (Intel 965 chipset)
3 GB RAM (DDR2-800)
GF 8600 GT, 256 MB
Monitor: 19 " LCD 1280 x 1024

I figured I could buy a good CPU cooler for around 30 euros and overclock the CPU to ~ 2,5 GHz (or more?). Any advice is appreciated here, I have no experience with overclocking so far.

Recommendations for my new cooler are also welcome. Ideally it should be easy to install and not too noisy.

And I want a new graphics card. My choice would have been the ATI 4850. Would it make sense for me to buy a 4870? Or is my CPU to weak anyway?

I've been eyeing the 4850 x2 with something approaching lust. But some of the owners say they're loud, loud cards, and that's a deal-breaker for this prosimian. So then I gaze with concupiscence upon the various 4870s with alternative cooling (posters claim these cards are quieter than the stock models).

What say you, Spino? Looks like your 4870 has the ATI stock cooling. How's the noise level?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TevashSzat

Do you have the 4870 or the 4870 X2? If you just have the 4870, think of what the 4870 X2 can do...

Yeah, the new mobility 4870s that were just released at the CES got me drooling.

They have an 80% Performance Increase from the mobility 3870. Also, its specs are actually comparable to those of the desktop 4870.

Seeing as how Nvidia is still keeping the 9800M GTX as their top end laptop GPU (which is just a Desktop 9600GT rebranded) I don't see how Nvidia can survive for much longer unless they come up with something new quickly. Their new GTX295 weren't that impressive either....

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I have the single chip 4870 w/1gig, not the X2 model. The 4870 X2 is certainly much faster than the 4870 (in most apps) but it is also much, much more expensive and incredibly power hungry (100+ extra watts over the 4870). I'd like to keep my electric bills at bearable levels (NYC electric bills can be quite a shock to the system... :wink: ). Furthermore the X2 is about 2 inches longer than my HIS 4870 card and my real estate is at a premium.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I've been eyeing the 4850 x2 with something approaching lust. But some of the owners say they're loud, loud cards, and that's a deal-breaker for this prosimian. So then I gaze with concupiscence upon the various 4870s with alternative cooling (posters claim these cards are quieter than the stock models).

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If you're going to go for a dual chip card the 4850X2 is the one to get, it's far more competitive in terms of price/performance than the 4870X2 or Nvidia's dual chip offerings. Yes, a custom cooler is the way to go, most of them are only a wee bit more expensive than cards with stock coolers.

Quote:

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What say you, Spino? Looks like your 4870 has the ATI stock cooling. How's the noise level?

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As I posted earlier noise really isn't an issue. See that's the beauty of my card, it doesn't have a stock cooler, it sports HIS' custom 'ICEQ' cooler which runs circles around the stock/reference cooling design in terms of effectiveness and noise. I should have taken a few more pics from better angles because you can't really see the fat copper heatpipes that emerge from cooler's housing in my pics. Here's two pics from Newegg's site that give a better idea of the difference between the reference & custom coolers used by HIS...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

REFERENCE DESIGN COOLER
https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/...nce4870qg7.jpg
https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/...jpg/1/w596.png
ICEQ 4+ TURBO COOLER
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/...q4turbomx7.jpg
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/...jpg/1/w635.png

The bad news is Newegg jacked up the price by $20+ dollars a day or so after I bought it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161265

You could get that 4850X2 you linked for upwards of $30-40 more but as you posted, the noise will be an issue... as will the heat... and the size. That thing will dump alot of hot air into your case in addition to taking up a ridiculous amount of space. On the other hand don't you have a X1950XT?!? As I recall that's considered a loud card that runs hot. If you have a spacious tower (room for a card that measures nearly 12"!) with decent cooling then go for it. But.. you'd better make sure your PSU can support it, it requires a helliva lot of juice from the 12v rails.

I'm not hurting financially but I find it incredibly difficult to justify spending more than $250 for any single component. Mainly because ultra-high end computer components seem to lose their value faster than any other segment. In fact in the last 8 years or so the only components I can recall spending more than $200 on were 3D cards (I dropped $255 for a 9700 way back when... only to be replaced by a 9800 Pro bought for chump change from a good friend months after the fact... :dizzy2: ). Personally the price/performance ratio of ultra high end anything turns me off completely.

How hot does that thing get/idle at?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

How hot does that thing get/idle at?

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As I posted earlier, the latest version of GPU-Z shows the GPU at 50 degrees celsius in idle/2D mode with the fan at 40%, the RAM chips are about the same. The GPU hits 60+ degrees celsius at load (fan at 50%). The temps are great considering the fan speeds and the noise levels (and are markedly lower than what you would get with stock coolers running at default fan speeds).

I can't believe NewEgg is selling your model for almost $300 now. That's just unfair. I'm going to have to sit and pout and think about what card to get for a while. I'm definitely torn between the 4850xs and the 4870 1 gig.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spino

As I posted earlier, the latest version of GPU-Z shows the GPU at 50 degrees celsius in idle/2D mode with the fan at 40%, the RAM chips are about the same. The GPU hits 60+ degrees celsius at load (fan at 50%). The temps are great considering the fan speeds and the noise levels (and are markedly lower than what you would get with stock coolers running at default fan speeds).

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Ah, sorry, can't read. :book:

OK, I'm looking pretty hard at picking up a 4870 as an upgrade in my current (somewhat old) machine, but I'm heavily invested in playing the original MTW-VI and lots of its mods. So I don't want the new hardware to break my existing software - anyone currently using an ATI 4xxx generation card and playing MTW-VI without issue?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Ah, sorry, can't read.

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No problem! :beam:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I can't believe NewEgg is selling your model for almost $300 now. That's just unfair. I'm going to have to sit and pout and think about what card to get for a while. I'm definitely torn between the 4850xs and the 4870 1 gig.

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Ouch. Keep in mind it is a brand spanking new card, it was released in December. Newegg loves to do that with new toys like this, initially offer it at an attractive price then jack the price up when demand surges. The latest price increase puts it within $20+ shouting distance of the 4850X2 so unless you're committed to the X2 I would definitely keep pouting for now. Prices on HIS' 4870 1gig should become more attractive come President's Day or at the onset of Spring.

For those of you starved for high end performance at mid ranged prices there is an excellent deal on a Sapphire 4870 w/512megs at Newegg. Bulky but it sports a custom cooler and tons of positive reviews. It sports a $15 rebate but you can use this code to get an additional $15 off VGA1915. Total damage comes to $170 and shipping is free!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102810

Unless you have a SFF case or one that is poorly ventilated then give it serious consideration. Make absolutely certain your PSU can support the card before purchase! If your PSU is somewhat old then pure wattage is not enough, you'll need to have at least 32A (amps) combined on the 12v rail(s) to adequately support a 4870 card. It would be a tragic turn of events if you fried your PSU or mobo because you assumed your system could handle it.

Well, my willpower finally crumbled. I got this videocard to power this monitor. These bits of goodness are replacing a 1900 and a 19" CRT monitor that I bought back during Clinton Presidency.

Anyhoo, the price on your card was just a bit too much, Spino, and the card is said to be quite looooong. My case is big and well-ventilated, but if the card is too darn long I'm going to have to move my hard drives, an operation I don't fancy right now.

Carry on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Well, my willpower finally crumbled. I got this videocard to power this monitor. These bits of goodness are replacing a 1900 and a 19" CRT monitor that I bought back during Clinton Presidency.

Anyhoo, the price on your card was just a bit too much, Spino, and the card is said to be quite looooong. My case is big and well-ventilated, but if the card is too darn long I'm going to have to move my hard drives, an operation I don't fancy right now.

Carry on.

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Well you certainly picked an excellent alternative. I believe that ASUS card is as long as my HIS model, 9.5" in length. Even if the card barely fits you'll still experience the joy of plugging two 6 pin power cables into the card's sockets which will increase its effective length by a 1/2" or so. Once you get it seated keep in mind that ASUS sports a traditional heatsink/fan design so you need to make absolutely certain that the hot air doesn't get trapped in the area around the fan (otherwise the GPU & RAM temps will skyrocket). Basically make sure you keep at least two adjacent PCI slots open (not counting the extra slot it hogs).

Anyway congratulations and happy gaming!

Well, the hardware came, and I am as happy as a lemur in a stinkyfruit tree. Turns out the 4870 was just a couple of millimeters too long, and I wound up relocating my hard drives anyway. Now there's so much space around the card, I might as well have installed a 4850x2 with a pair of truck balls. It's a wide-open cavern now that the HDs have moved.

On a side note, I finally feel clever for building my machina with a 750 watt power supply. I slipped the extra 12v cord into the 4870 and booted up without a hitch. Although my WD system drive decided not to power up for a while, but energetic twiddling of the power connector fixed that.

The new hi-rez screen and hi-power videocard are a good match. I fired up Far Cry 2 just to test the visuals, maxing resolution and options, and it played silky smooth. And eveything's still nice and quiet, so I have no complaints.

Thanks for inciting geek lust in my heart, Spino!

Excellent and congratulations!

Be glad you opted for the less expensive card. ATI's 40nm based cards are scheduled to debut at the end of March and the RV790 based card (4900?) will no doubt have a downward influence on the prices of 4850X2 cards...

http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.p...2649&sprache=1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

AMD RV790 and RV740 in 40 nm from March 2009 on
Nvidia used the still ongoing Consumer Electronics Show to establish two new high-end products, namely GTX 285 and GTX 295, and thus is back at the top. The fact that AMD will not keep it like this should be obvious, and that is why we have inquired at a, in the past very reliable AMD power, about what things AMD would able to come up against Nvidia with.

Spontaneously two names fell into this conversation: RV740 and RV790. The former is a well-known in the rumor mill, VR-Zone has already unmasked the specifications of the chip, and using the tape-out, you could also conclude that the RV740 would come in spring.
The chip will be the successor to the RV730, although it could still remain at the market some time, and will redefine AMD's middle class. In things of performance the strongest model will move up to HD 4830 and HD 4850.

Large uncertainty on the other hand about an update on the performance segment. Would AMD hold the RV770 current until the RV870 or put an update between, which is quite pushing depending on the launch of the RV870, concerning that Nvidia will send a distinctly modified GT200 in persona of the GT212 into the race in the second quarter.
The rumors included everything from a RV770 with better frequency to a RV770 that had to more SIMD units (960 SPs, 48 TMUs), and also the codenames were shuffled: Super RV770, RV775 and RV790.

According to our source, AMD's next performance chip will be called RV790, enter the market as HD 4900, and be crafted in 40 nm like RV740. There is still silence about the amount of stream processors. But we can assure that there will be more than with the RV770, so that the RV790 will not just be a half-hearted frequency update.
Both chips, RV740 and RV790, are announced for March. Though a launch within the CeBIT would be suggestible, no one wanted to determine the date yet.

We will keep you informed.

http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.p...2658&sprache=1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

AMD's RV790 und RV740 samples in circulation
Recently we reported about the probable specifications and possible launch dates of RV790 and RV740. As we could learn from AMD-internal sources, first samples of the RV790 are in operation for several days now. The first RV740 examples exist a bit longer.

Before we enter into the various specifications, we want to point out that these are "engineer samples" and so the values of the final cards can respectively still change. But the past teaches us that the final clock frequencies are mostly in range of the samples.

Accordingly, the current RV790 samples work with 750 MHz on the chip and are equipped with 1024 MiB big, 900 MHz fast Qimonda GDDR5 memory, which is bound to a 256 Bit wide interface as unsual.
AMD's RV740 chips also do some testing rounds eagerly. Here samples with 700 MHz core frequency are going around – there are still experiments with the memory. So AMD bets, as suggested in face of the 128 Bit wide interface, on GDDR5 memory, too. This is between 512 and 1024 MiB wide and runs with 800 to 900 MHz.

Because the clock rates do just barely differ from the ones of the respective predecessors (RV770 and RV730), we suggest that the performance additions are achieved with more working units. The RV740's last status was 640 stream processors, 32 TMUs and 16 ROPs. We still grope in the dark with the RV790.

So I imagine the 1gig flavor of this new RV790 (HD 4900) based card will debut somewhere around $275-300 with the 512meg variety anywhere between $200-250.