Dawn of War 2 Open beta

For those who didn't already know, the beta of DoW2 is available on Steam.

I've been playing it for a few days (it has been available to Soulstorm owners for something like a week), and so far, I'm clearly disappointed.

I knew DoW2 wouldn't play like DoW1, as the devs repeatedly said it would be more like CoH. Still, I expected the game to at least look or feel like DoW, and it clearly does not.

Obviously, DoW wasn't the best or most original RTS ever (I'd go as far as saying it would have been a below average RTS without the W40K setting), but what the hell is Relic trying to do ? In its current state, DoW2 looks like CoH - a watered down CoH, mind you - with W40K skins.

There is not unit diversity (there are barely 10 units per race, with 3 or 4 so useless you will never see them, ever), W40K fluff is just put aside for gameplay reasons (not that I am a fluff fascist, I had no problem with DoW1 and its sometimes iffy fluff, but it's going too far with DoW2), etc etc.

People go around claiming it's more tactical, requires more skills and what not. How so ? The game is all about rushing to get the bigger units, using your units' abilities whenever they are available (which means a lot of clicking, almost SC-Korean-kekeke like) and a paper-rock-scissor approach that I absolutely loathe.

And, the worst of all, even though the game in some aspect looks more W40Kish than DoW1, it certainly doesn't feel W40K-ish at all. No sound, no more people screaming, no more battlecries, no more Ork teared appart by a dreadnought, no more people flying everywhere because some huge badass unit kicked their ass. The Tyrannids are a complete letdown (like the Necrons in DoW): since they can't talk, Relic decided it would be cool to use a robot-like voice to explain you what's going on. How crappy it is to see a Hive Tyrant dying, without any cool animation. It just fells on the floor like it's going to have a nap. Give me some Zergs over this anytime.

To end my (long and whiny) rant, I'm disappointed. If the campaign is not a complete let-down and offers some replayability, I might spend the 50$ to buy the game. Unhappilly, I don't think that will happen given that the campaign solely focuses on Space Marines.
Here am I, waiting for SC2 now (note that I enjoyed DoW1 much more than SC1, if only for the setting and the general ambiance).

I just played a skirmish, and am very meh about it.

Why the recent trend in RTS type games to go with smaller amounts of units?

I want wars, dangit. WAR! Not a series of minor skirmishes. I pine for the glory days of AOE:AOK.

Are there no modern RTS's that do what that game did so well?

I suppose I must wait for 0 AD.

CR

So it is Dawn of Skirmish then. ;)

I do wonder if the beta is missing all the correct sound files and animations because:
a) They haven't been completed
b) They have been completed but they are unstable and/or they don't want the beta to be used too much.

Well, I'm pretty sure all animations and sounds are there. While the sound issue can be easily fixed I guess (just turn up the volume hoping it will somehow sound as cool as DoW1), I just don't see them making a whole lot of new animations in the incoming month. Notice that existing animations aren't bad. It just lacks everything that made DoW1 awesome.

As for the small scale, I could stand it, if the game wasn't a RTS in which you have to click freneticaly on skill X or Y and to watch every single unit closely because one guy dead = 30 seconds of income wasted. As a tactical RPG or Turn based strategy game, it would be alright. As a RTS that wants to catter to casual and hardcore player, it just becomes tedious.

I quite like it, but like other people, it has become rather tedious
Orks:
Take Nearest Locations
Train Two Shoota Boy Squads
Occansionaly train more shootas if need be, perhaps a stick bomma
Save up for Tech 2
Build Wartrukk
Train 2 lootas
Build 2 Wartrukks
Train 2 Tankbustas
Tech 3
Looted Tank, and the above, perhaps Nob Squad, but not Kommando

Heres a number of complaints:
Tactical Marine Squad: 500, all with bolters, can upgrade one with a rocket and sargeant, but If I pay just 300 I get a heavy bolter and 2 normal marines, easy choice tbh, and if your looking for AT just get Tech 2 Plasma Cannon, or a dreanaught, there still cheaper than Tactical squad

Eldar, Nids and SM get can get Supression units straight away, Orks have to get at least 20 Power to get Heavy shootas, and thats in a ability! which has a huge delay! Lootas do take that problem away, but still.

Lower the Delay explosion on stick bombs perhaps?

Bugs:
Perf is incorrect,
Rank does not work for most people (including me)
When a host recalls everyone after a game, sometimes when he starts the game a second time it will crash in the loading.

I've yet to be in a game where I saw the 'Nids used effectively. As the Orks I can pretty easily counter them, even when facing the Hive Tyrant my warboss can pretty much negate him 100%. By the time they throw heavy hitters at me, i'm already pumping out Deff Dreads, and once that happens its pretty much gg.

I found marines to be woefully underbalanced with units far too overpriced. 500 req for tactical marines? Really? As a whole they aren't that bad but marines really need to be looked at. Tac marines are a waste, so for tier 1 you're basically pigeonholed into using slow units who are hard to relocate or scouts. If you can survive to tier 2 you can really give the enemy a tough time with dreds and your fixed AT, but that's the thing you gotta survive that long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

I just played a skirmish, and am very meh about it.

Why the recent trend in RTS type games to go with smaller amounts of units?

I want wars, dangit. WAR! Not a series of minor skirmishes. I pine for the glory days of AOE:AOK.

Are there no modern RTS's that do what that game did so well?

I suppose I must wait for 0 AD.

---

What got me was that a lot of the screenshots shown so far show some pretty decent sized battles. What we didn't know obviously was that each side was likely at the absolute cap in those screenshots, or there were multiple players/cpu players taking part to bolster the unit count. Sure they weren't DoW1 numbers but they were still pretty nice. In my beta games I rarely have more than 4-5 squads at a time. Even in CoH i had more than that... :shame:

The map selection is pretty bad. I knew it going in, but I was at least expecting some good maps for their being so few. They aren't. They are anything but. With the new garrison abilities I was really looking forward to urban-based maps to really take advantage, sadly there was only one map that can even remotely be considered urban and it isn't very good. Relic has vowed to release 2 more maps right after release, and it stands to guess that people will make their own.. I just dunno if I want to wait to be able to have good maps to play for skirmish.

All of this might be able to be excused if the AI the beta came with was at all competent. The AI in DoW1 wasn't the best but on the highest setting it could at least coordinate an effective attack. The AI in CoH was horrid, most often tripping over itself and suddenly stopping all orders and never resuming them. The AI that has followed in DoW2 can easily be called a step down from the AI in COH. Make that two steps down.

It just won't fight you. Ever. As if it's suffering from confidence issues each time you engage the AI it hits the retreat button and runs, even if your forces are evenly matched! All it will do is run around de-capping points and that's on Expert setting. I know it's an MP beta but I don't always feel like playing online and doing AI skirmish is(used to be) a lot of fun.

I read in an interview this is effectively DoW2 1.0, this is the game that will ship. The beta is solely to test for the next patch. I have to say I'm really disappointed with the final product. Limited map selection, absolutely horrid AI and two races who need a lot of tweaking. As far as I'm concerned DoW2 is definitely not DoW1. Maybe Relic will surprise me and release lots of new maps and tweak the races to where they are all on even footing. Maybe. As it stands now I probably won't buy it unless the campaign is really, really good.

Ugh, I don't like receiving all these negative waves about a game I am positively moist in anticipation over.

As if the low unit cap and complete lack of base building was bad enough hearing about poor skirmish AI really really ticks me off. Recently I've been playing skirmish matches vs. the AI in CoH:OF and I immediately noticed how poor it was compared to DoW's AI. I also noticed that the CoH AI is absolutely obsessed with capturing points, which is particularly annoying since I always play using Annihilation victory conditions! I'm hoping decent modders eventually release a quality skirmish AI mod for CoH because so far the ones that are available right now are lacking and/or seriously buggy.

Based on what I'm hearing I think it's safe to say it's going to be awhile before Relic irons out the problems with DoW2 and (hopefully) improves the AI to the point where it doesn't suck. I know they're in the middle of testing an open beta right now but if the game is getting this much flak so close to release then it's almost guaranteed that it, at best, ship in only slightly better condition.

I guess i'll stick to playing skirmish maps vs. the AI in DoW. The spectacular Skirmish AI & DoWXP mods make playing the AI incredibly fun, epic and challenging.

I was very put off by the whole DOW thing where they made you buy a 20 dollar expansion just to play a new race. They did that what, like 4 times in DOW?

they are doing it again, just like they are with starcraft 2. I guess its the newest fad, a fad that I will pass on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

they are doing it again, just like they are with starcraft 2. I guess its the newest fad, a fad that I will pass on.

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You can play all three races from the first game of the starcraft 2 trilogy. Subsequent expansions will only add a campaign, and maybe a new unit or two, thats all

I guess I misunderstood what I was reading then, thanks for the info

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

I was very put off by the whole DOW thing where they made you buy a 20 dollar expansion just to play a new race. They did that what, like 4 times in DOW?

they are doing it again, just like they are with starcraft 2. I guess its the newest fad, a fad that I will pass on.

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Well, actually, it wasn't that bad, as long as you were more of a solo player.

DoW main campaign sucked and offered no replayability.
DoW:WI assault did a bit better, as you could play with 4 races instead of one.
Then, the two last expansions did a good job at offering replayability and fun. You could play with a grand total of nine factions, and as a W40K freaks (I'm talking about the background rather than the wargame), it really was cool. I admit it got boring after the second campaign, but just defeating another race and having a 2 minutes speech about what happened was fun.

To clarify things about SC2, you will be able to play any race in multiplayer and custom games, but the first pack will only offer a tutorial (Protoss) and the first campaign (Terran). The good thing is that, according to Blizzard, each campaign will be as long and complex as a whole game (+/- 30 missions, developed background and narrative, etc)

I'm actually enjoying it.

I won't buy it, but I don't regret downloading it. The ability to customise the commanders to that level, and the visual unlocks you get as you play (im a sucker for stuff like that, i'll play for it, but not pay)

New patch came out this morning my time, so its getting balanced.