potuguese army research, 1755-1762

Hi!

I figured this was the place to post, seeing that this handles all affairs on general history:

I am currently researching the portuguese army for the seven years war project, and I and Richard (the webmaster of project SYW), and I need help on a few things:

a) are there any contemporary (as in from 1755-1762) sources depicting the portuguese army? I am aware of, and possess plates of the army from 1762, but it only covers three or four regiments. If anyone recognizes the source, I would be very appreciative. here is the result of the plates (I cannot show the plates themselves here): http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.p...ortuguese_Army the plates look crudish, but they are temporary WIPS, until better information is found.

b) anybody knows anything about Cavalry from the said army and said time?

c) if no contemporary sources exist to your knowlege, do you know of a second hand source that covers the subject?

any sources and plates you have knowlege of or you possess, do not post them directly here (due to forum rules and copyright laws); but post here that you found something (just give the name of the source here), or a link to the picture/plate in the website (if you found the work at a website). a textual description of the plates is ok, as it is second hand and safe. but you must cite the name of the source. If you cannot describe it, just PM what you have to di.nof.elis@hotmail.com

thanks in advance.:yes:

also, as a side research: anyone here has information on the polish-lithuanian commonwealth army from the same period? I prefer the full registery of the regiments, rather than isolated scraps.

What are plates? I can give you hand, since I'm arqueologist, though that is not my area of specialty.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

What are plates? I can give you hand, since I'm arqueologist, though that is not my area of specialty.

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The uniforms of the Portuguese infantry followed the evolution of fashion throughout the 18th Century. In the Century's beginning, in the reign of D. João V, it followed the uniforms of the Catholic Powers - France, Spain, Austria, using uniforms in light grey colour called "Alvadia" - of ample size, usually without lapels with large tricorners, with the grandadiers using fur caps.

In 1762, uniforms still followed the Catholic powers uniforms, specially that of the Austrian crown's armies, the uniforms colour being now white, and the jackets began having colour lapels, to distinguish regiments more easily. With the franco-spanish DoW, there was the need to increase the amount of soldiers per infantry regiment, since these since 1754 with half of the normal amount of soldiers. The transition of one regiment with 360 soldiers to one of 1200 in 1762 disorganized the production of uniforms, since there were too few uniforms in the military warehouses, and few in the factories of the Kingdom. The regiments had to content themselves with the textiles that were already available, and they even got to search for these in the fairs of the interior of the country, thus the Portuguese army made the "Fantastic War" with uniforms of all colours - With soldiers in white but also blue, green, yellow, red, etc. Throughout the conflict, it seems that it was managed to standardize the uniforms of the regiments with white, blue and brown uniforms. The majority of the regiments of the 1st batallion recieved to usual uniform - white -, while others were dressed in blue. The ones of the 2nd batallions were dressed in brown. Although there wasn't that amount of standardization for the entire army.


Translated for the first two paragraphs of this site: http://www.arqnet.pt/exercito/evluninf.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

The uniforms of the Portuguese infantry followed the evolution of fashion throughout the 18th Century. In the Century's beginning, in the reign of D. João V, it followed the uniforms of the Catholic Powers - France, Spain, Austria, using uniforms in light grey colour called "Alvadia" - of ample size, usually without lapels with large tricorners, with the grandadiers using fur caps.

In 1762, uniforms still followed the Catholic powers uniforms, specially that of the Austrian crown's armies, the uniforms colour being now white, and the jackets began having colour lapels, to distinguish regiments more easily. With the franco-spanish DoW, there was the need to increase the amount of soldiers per infantry regiment, since these since 1754 with half of the normal amount of soldiers. The transition of one regiment with 360 soldiers to one of 1200 in 1762 disorganized the production of uniforms, since there were too few uniforms in the military warehouses, and few in the factories of the Kingdom. The regiments had to content themselves with the textiles that were already available, and they even got to search for these in the fairs of the interior of the country, thus the Portuguese army made the "Fantastic War" with uniforms of all colours - With soldiers in white but also blue, green, yellow, red, etc. Throughout the conflict, it seems that it was managed to standardize the uniforms of the regiments with white, blue and brown uniforms. The majority of the regiments of the 1st batallion recieved to usual uniform - white -, while others were dressed in blue. The ones of the 2nd batallions were dressed in brown. Although there wasn't that amount of standardization for the entire army.


Translated for the first two paragraphs of this site: http://www.arqnet.pt/exercito/evluninf.html

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yes, I have already obrtained that website's information (in fact, the plates I did make do follow the Austrian cut). Richard and i found it seperately on the same day.

as for the plates, I have no name for it, and I already explained that I cannot show the ones I have(I was told not to, just in case); luckily, the arqnet website has the picture that is definately from the plate series (art style is identical):

http://www.arqnet.pt/imagens/ip3-inf1762.gif

this is a black and white rendidtion of the origional, which I know was in color.

Do you understand Portuguese? If you can't show what it is, or explain what it is, I don't see how you can get anybody to help you with something they don't know what it is. What is a plate? Is it aliens? Geological processes? Food? Books?

And why can't you show it? Is it a top classified NASA/CIA operation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Do you understand Portuguese? If you can't show what it is, or explain what it is, I don't see how you can get anybody to help you with something they don't know what it is. What is a plate? Is it aliens? Geological processes? Food? Books?

And why can't you show it? Is it a top classified NASA/CIA operation?

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anyways:

1-a plate is a series of pictures (seriously). its a common term where I stand, for example, Richard knotel made unifiorm "plates" depicting the german armies.:book:

2-as for why I cannot show what I have, again, I am not allowed too: the person who lent us what precious few plate (pictures to simplify), told Richard and I not to show these publically or online; respecting his wishes, I can't/won't show it. it may be difficult to get, but there is something known as respect to contributors (and their wishes). why he said don't show, I have no idea-I just obey his wishes with respect. If I had a choice in the matter, i would gladly post here all I have.

also, I forgot to add, the few plates from that I have for the period come from this book:"300 anos de uniformes militares do exército de Portugal. 1660-1960".

its out of print, which may have had a role in the contributor's request. the book is around 30-40 years old.

the only reason I am asking for help is that perhaps someone here might have more information or more books to recommend, that might lead to more of those pictures, I figured you or someone else could show me where to find more pictures of that type. I did not expect anybody to necessarily tell me what the album from which those pictures are from, only if they have seen them, and if so what the boks name is.

and no, I don't understand portuguese; what information came in was translated with the help of an interpretor. they are surprisingly easy to get a hold of.

there are also references aside from that book I showed here, mentioned in arqnet. I figured someone might know where to find those books, and see where I or Richard may obtain it..

Pretty sure my former university has anything you're looking for on Portuguese armies. FLUP is one of the biggest History universities of Portugal so...
What is this project for? Just to establish a site with accurate information on the SYW?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Pretty sure my former university has anything you're looking for on Portuguese armies. FLUP is one of the biggest History universities of Portugal so...
What is this project for? Just to establish a site with accurate information on the SYW?

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yes. we are compiling accurate information in the wiki format for the seven years war.

the best place to start would be with the regiments, and in particular their uniforms-we get those out of the way first.

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Originally Posted by Ibrahim

yes. we are compiling accurate information in the wiki format for the seven years war.

the best place to start would be with the regiments, and in particular their uniforms-we get those out of the way first.

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The problem is that I'm studying in another university, across the country. The only time I go to my hometown, near Porto (Where FLUP is), its per 2 weeks and just on weekends. Thus, the only time I might help you guys is in Easter break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolt

The problem is that I'm studying in another university, across the country. The only time I go to my hometown, near Porto (Where FLUP is), its per 2 weeks and just on weekends. Thus, the only time I might help you guys is in Easter break.

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well, whenever and whatever you contribute is more than appreciated.

thanks for your help!



@everyone else: again, if you have anything to contribute, I am all ears.:beam:

well, I finally got a hold of the bibliography of the book in question. tragically, it does not say which one has the origional plates so I will post them all:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1- 400 anos de organização e uniformes militares em Macau
2-Instrucoes Militares los soldados portugueses, Despertador de Marte, 1762 (high priority)
3-Regimentos Militares de 1710 a 1796. Lisbon, 1797 (high priority)
4-Novos Subsidios para a Historia da Artilharia portuguesa, by Jose justino Teixeira Botelho. Lisbon, 1944.
5-Exposicao Historico-Militar e Homonagem a Mouzinho de Alburqueque no Centanario do seu nascimento, Contribuicao para o Estudo dos Uniformes Militares Portugueses desde 1664 ate 1806, by Carlos De Silva Lopes. C. M. do porto, 1958
6-Hstoria politica e militar de portugal desde os fins do XVIII seculo ate 1814, por Jose Maria Latine Coelho, 1874
7-Uniformi Dell'ecersito Brasiliano dal 1730 al 1922, Revisita Militare, Roma, 1989
8-Coleccao das leis, Decreto e Alvaras que compreende o feliz reinado d'El-Rei Fidelissimo D.Jose I. Lisbon, 1776 (high priority)

does anyone know where to find one of these at least?

anyone new here who can be of service to find thesources in post #11?

I have awaited.

Update on my situation: I'm entering exam period. Thus, July is probably the earliest time I can help you out.