Respawning Armies

I apologise if this has already been covered or if I`m just misunderstanding a feature of the game but I came across something today that frustrated the hell out of me.

Ok, so I`m playing as Great Britain and I`ve been having a few problems with pirates in the Carribean. I decided to build a huge fleet in England and transport an army to their bases in this part of the world. Anyways, I land my army just outside Antigua and wait a turn before attacking the town. 1 turn later and my army attacks, I`m given the usual options to demand surrender or lay siege etc. after seeing that there are 7 large units of pirate mobs and I only have a fairly basic army I go for what I hope will be the safer option and lay siege rather than attack. Another turn later and my army comes under attack from the pirate garrison in the town, this attack is beaten back with about 90% casualties suffered by the enemy. When I transfer back to the campaign map I find that the siege is ended, I order my army to attack the town again and find that it is now once again defended by 7 full strength units of pirate mobs.

Are sieges supposed to go on like this?

They aren't supposed to. I think it is a bug.

If you actually moved your army away from siege, then attacked again, and the mobs came back it would still be reasonable. But the game sometimes glitches and acts like you broke the siege when the defenders sally.

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Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

If you actually moved your army away from siege, then attacked again, and the mobs came back it would still be reasonable. But the game sometimes glitches and acts like you broke the siege when the defenders sally.

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That would be a bug.

If you don't take the city, it is reasoned that defenders would continue resisting, forming mobs.

If they sally, they are attacking you...Still...it could work either way, you should be able to just take the city after winning a sally.

Do wish AI would only sally when there was a reasonable chance of victory . . . Sallying when you are outnumbered 5-1 is a bit sally. That is when the AI should accept a surrender.

I suspect the surrender code was ported over from an abandoned Spartan expansion pack to R:TW.

"The enemy sends his terms. We are outnumbered 99 to 1, I sugg-"

"Blast them! We will return home with our shields or upon them!"

"Sir, we don't have shie-"

"WHEN I WANT YOUR OPINION, I'LL STICK MY FOOT IN YOUR REAR AND DICTATE IT TO YOU, SPARTAN!"

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Originally Posted by Wishazu

I apologise if this has already been covered or if I`m just misunderstanding a feature of the game but I came across something today that frustrated the hell out of me.

Ok, so I`m playing as Great Britain and I`ve been having a few problems with pirates in the Carribean. I decided to build a huge fleet in England and transport an army to their bases in this part of the world. Anyways, I land my army just outside Antigua and wait a turn before attacking the town. 1 turn later and my army attacks, I`m given the usual options to demand surrender or lay siege etc. after seeing that there are 7 large units of pirate mobs and I only have a fairly basic army I go for what I hope will be the safer option and lay siege rather than attack. Another turn later and my army comes under attack from the pirate garrison in the town, this attack is beaten back with about 90% casualties suffered by the enemy. When I transfer back to the campaign map I find that the siege is ended, I order my army to attack the town again and find that it is now once again defended by 7 full strength units of pirate mobs.

Are sieges supposed to go on like this?

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This ALWAYS happens to me in my games when I siege (doh moment there) and I choose to wait rather than assault. If I keep waiting I keep having to fend off multiple waves of defenders (likely 3) then the city is taken. As a result I always attack on the first turn, unless I want to exp up some units. In which case I just fight the battles to gain exp.

Tips on pirates as GB:
Wait till you can have 3rd or 2nd rates. Although this is definitely NOT a requirement since I have captured at least 15-20 pirate galleons as the Dutch using 4-5 5th rates. It does make it a lot easier if you have at least one decent navy which you can use till the end of the game. You can again exp up those ships on pirate fleets.

I'd recommend:

Staggered (Double) Battle Line
2 * 2nd Rate: 1 Admiral
4 * 3rd Rate

Single Line Screen (takes damage and draws fire away from battle line)
4 * 5th Rate

Line Abreast (disrupts enemy battle line)
4 * 6th Rate (better with carronades)

The 6th Rates are picket ships. You park your fleet near the two pirate ports, and send 1 picket ship to each corner of your main fleet's zone of control, thus extending it's zone of intercept. if one of the picket ships is attacked your fleet will join the battle. If it is not attacked it increase your line of sight anyway and you can attack any targets you see.

For the towns themselves, one of them has a decent garrison and I'd recommend going with a full army, including 12 lbers with canister shot.

Ive seen it happen both ways. But usually if you manage to kill absolutely everyone and no one retreats back, you will take the town in between turns.

Thanks for the responses everyone!

Thanks Sinan for those suggestions, however I don`t really understand how to make my fleet work the way you suggest in game. I`m quite the noob at naval warfare :(

I find that even if you are victorious in fighting off the sally your siege is broken. This allows all the free units in the city to auto respawn.

In all other TW games if the defenders tried that they would automatically lose the city on defeat. I am betting this is still how it is supposed to work. You win win the town so the siege is not necessary but since you are never allowed to take the city the defenders respawn just like you had been beaten.

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Originally Posted by dulsin

In all other TW games if the defenders tried that they would automatically lose the city on defeat.

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This is actually not true. When sallying, if the besiegers failed to take the center during the battle, the walls and gates were unbreached, and the gates were all closed with all the defenders within the walls the battle would end in a draw and the siege would continue. Only if the defender still had units outside the wall or the besieger had an open route to the city center would the autoresolve function take over and decide on casualties.

Many games when I was besieged I'd sally, cause whatever casualties I could with missile troops, then withdraw back into the city and end the battle. Over the course of a couple of turns you could seriously whittle down the besieger that way.

Now, IMO, when they sally and lose, the "armed townsfolk" units should not fully respawn but should remain as they were after the battle. If only 2/60 survive then that's what you should have to fight next turn.

has this problem been fixed cos ive had a few battles where the Ai has sallied and ive beaten the AI and at the end of the turn i have taken posetion of the city.

none of these cities had walls
they were all with minor nations

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Originally Posted by Wishazu

Another turn later and my army comes under attack from the pirate garrison in the town, this attack is beaten back with about 90% casualties suffered by the enemy. When I transfer back to the campaign map I find that the siege is ended, I order my army to attack the town again and find that it is now once again defended by 7 full strength units of pirate mobs.

Are sieges supposed to go on like this?

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Two things I've noticed:

1. the turn before your siege would (inevitably) succeed, they always sally and inflict casualties on you -- this is an improvement over earlier :TW versions, when you would just occupy the sieged settlement without any losses whatsoever
2. attacking any settlement creates a "scratch force" of armed citizenry to defend it -- this is an improvement that prevents you from just waltzing in with a lone militia unit and gobbling up (undefended) region after (undefended) region

So, it's a feature, I guess. :deal2:

The apparent bug is (probably) due to the fact that when you order the assault, it re-creates the citizen units (the grey bars on the mast of settlement's strat map flag), not reflecting any losses from the previous turn's combat. ~:doh: