How much is enough to buy territory?

I'm playing RtI4. At the beginning the adviser suggests buying land from Spain and France. Cool, I agree, better not to make war with your few friends. I tried to buy Florida before the Cherokee inevitably take it and my offer of 18,000 was rejected.

Hmm, Okay...:inquisitive:

But now I wiped out the Iroquios and the Cherokee. All that's left on the eastern half of the mainland is France and England. I go to buy lower Louisiana for 38,000 and it's rejected outright.

Has anyone EVER managed to buy territory from other nations?

i have a feeling that you could buy it with technology have not tryed it but as they offer you technology for a territory maybe they will agree also.

but it might depend on how "important" they think the territory is for example buy france from france is less likly to succed then buying a poor province not developed in america.

but those figures seems strange that they would not agree on

hope i make any sense

The price of provinces depends on quite a few factors. From what I've seen and read elsewhere the main ones seem to be the wealth of the province in question (mouseover in the provinces diplomacy) and if it is a mission province for the controlling faction (check victory conditions in the "start new GC" menu).
I assume that with all diplomacy your standing with them, your wealth, their wealth, your strength/prestige, their strength/prestige are factors as well. Strategic value doesn't seem to be a factor though, I've had offers from Prussia for a Crimean/Poland trade (me being the Ottomans).
But since the number of diplomatic inquieries per turn is endless, its just a matter of trial and error. Well, if your money is endless as well... throwing in some high level tech does help though.

ive found that 150000-250000 + a tech or 2 gets most places in the GC-not sure about RTI though

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

ive found that 150000-250000 + a tech or 2 gets most places in the GC-not sure about RTI though

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That is ridiculous! Who ever has that much?

The AI offers to swap swamp land for good provinces and hardly ever offers a tech.

It is also odd that over time their offers seem to decline in value as you improve the province.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

That is ridiculous! Who ever has that much?

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Me at every of my dozen or so games (some h, some vh) so far from about 1760 onwards.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

It is also odd that over time their offers seem to decline in value as you improve the province.

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Well, if you keep the upper class taxes up, the province wealth/value will decline.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

That is ridiculous! Who ever has that much?

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Ah, the joys of India.
Seriously though, ive never (on medium) been able to get a province for less than 100k, and that was a measly little carribean island somewhere that only barely scraped a profit (i was bored).

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Originally Posted by Darth Venom

Me at every of my dozen or so games (some h, some vh) so far from about 1760 onwards.

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I find some countries are better than others for money but overall it is too easy to become filthy rich. As United Provinces, and role playing rather than blitzing, the Mughals declared war on me, so I conquered them. Then the Marathas did the same, so they got the same treatment. Then I owned all of India, four provinces in the Caribbean (two starting ones and two taken from pirates, useful in getting a dockyard) and my home province in Europe. That brought in a profit around 50k a turn.

And remember that I only had one port in my home theatre for trade routes; had I taken Flanders and other European provinces with ports I could have been racking up even bigger numbers.

In my current campaign as the UP, I purchased New York from Britain for 70k gold plus the province of Gujarat in India. That's the cheapest monetary price I've ever paid. I got Bengal for 75k plus a couple of techs, New Andalusia cost me 142k, French Guyana cost me 117k, and Carnatica cost me about 80k plus techs. I don't recall precisely how much I paid for Goa, Flanders, or whatever the name of that province is that lies between Carnatica and Bengal (I think that one was around 160k because that's what I had at the time).

Interestingly, in the cases of New Andalusia and French Guyana, the seller came back with a counter offer to my initial offer, both times mysteriously just less than the total amount of money I had at the time. It's almost like the AI knows exactly how much money you have in the treasury.

The AI constantly tries to trade 1-2 techs plus a few hundred gold to me for territory, but it won't let me purchase one for less than an exhorbitant price. Since I'm making about 45k per turn at this point in profit, I can buy a province about every 2-2.5 years, and there's no "Territorial expansion" penalty to diplomatic standings when you do. I am just about resigned to having to conquer India to win this campaign, though. No matter how much money I give the Maratha or the Mughals, they won't go out and fight each other, so I'm not going to be able to buy one of the capitals from the victor. I think I'm going to have to go take them myself.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

In my current campaign as the UP, I purchased New York from Britain for 70k gold plus the province of Gujarat in India. That's the cheapest monetary price I've ever paid.

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In the first quarter/third of the game you can get the useless ones (Rupert's Land, NW Territories, Iceland,... ) for 50.000 - 60.000 sometimes less.

Trading regions for regions works better than paying them outright. It is actually fairly rational that you do this, since an upfront payment and loss of territory isn't as good as getting new territory.

But to do that you have to own "surplus" territory, meaning a province that isn't part of your victory conditions (or you're willing to get back later in the game) and isn't critical to your economy or war effort at the time. It wasn't really an issue when I was playing Great Britain; I owned all of North America north and east of Texas except the Inuit territory and every island in the Caribbean.

As the Dutch, it is an issue. I'm not conquering territory; I've been purchasing it, so almost everything I own is required for my victory conditions. Gujarat I conquered when it went rebel, it turns out there's no diplomacy hit for taking a rebellious province. Bengal I purchased just to get a foothold on the subcontinent and it's fully stocked for recruiting troops, plus it's adjacent to Hindustan which I have to own to win.

So far, I've taken Gujarat in the manner mentioned, took Leeward Islands and Trinidad & Tobago from the pirates, Iroquois Territory after they declared war on me, Quebec after the independent nation of Quebec declared war on me, and I just took Tunis from the Barbary States after marching right through Algiers and leaving it alone for now. I need 25 territories, 13 of which are specified. I currently own 20 I think. As Britain I needed 35, and I had 45 by 1760, so I had extra I could trade if I needed to. Right now I can't afford to trade 1:1 unless it's a victory condition and I can replace what I'm giving up.

Gujarat wasn't a victory condition while New York was, plus I was hoping that giving the English a foothold in India plus a cash infusion would cause them to recruit troops there and step into the stagnant conflict between the Maratha and the Mughals, thus giving me an opportunity to buy either Bijapur or Hindustan from someone who didn't have it as their capital. That hasn't worked.

On "United States" of RTI I managed to buy the Bahamas from GB for a mere 25,000. I then went to war with them!

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

That is ridiculous! Who ever has that much?

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The British, United Provinces, Maratha, and Spain sleep on beds made of money warmed by money burning fireplaces stoked by dancing midget circus performers dressed in money.

Not true! Remember, in the 1700s money is not paper, it's gold and silver. That's cold and hard! We sleep on feather beds, wrapped in mink comforters, with wood burning stoves heating the room. Now, the stoves are continuously fed by servants with a long line leading from the forest where the firewood is continuously cut and handed down the line until it's fed into the stove, and all those servants are paid to do this job constantly regardless of weather!

LOL, love the image :laugh4:

But since UP are one of the rich factions and their colonies are very easy grabs for pretty much everyone (OK, Wurtemberg and Dagestan are out, but you know what I mean)..... Getting rich really isn't difficult if you live a relatively peaceful life and pick the low hanging fruit.

I bought Lithuania from Poland for ~80,000 as Prussia
And that was right after I kicked them out of West Prussia.

Cheapest price I have seen for land I wanted was 79,000 and the seller wanted a bunch of tech too. In most cases tech and land swap is required along with money. If you want to make 40,000+ per turn just go capture all of India. So far capturing India is the fastest way I have found to make massive wealth in trade and taxes. So far with my current Dutch faction campaign I rarely fall below 250,000 cash in my bank. I havent been able to buy New York yet. They just won't sell. The most I have offered so far though is 100,000 and some tech. Maybe I'll try 150,000 just to see if they'll sell. At that price though I think I'd rather invade considering I've already taken France and Spain and all their colonies. :smash:

Oftentimes, I find that a tad bit of blood and iron is more than enough to buy a wealthy province.

Pff...

The new diplomacy stuff also has a "meekness" factor in there as well. Defeating someone in a lot of battles will make them more conceding to one-sided offers. But I think the smaller nations should have a bit of this as a fixed amount. I had conquered France, Iberia, and Germany as Great Britain, and Denmark refused all my offers for Iceland.

In my recently completed UP campaign Venice declared war on me after I conquered Naples, So i sieged it. I beat their sally back, but a unit escaped with enough men to keep a garrison. Then my ally Genoa comes in and jacks the province from me! I then bought it for, no lie, 1 million. they wouldn't go lower. Every other province I bought ( New York, Goa, New Andulisia or whatever Colombia is called) for 300k or less. Of course 1 million was only about 1/10 of my treasury at this point so it didn't really matter.