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In your experience how effective is the "canister shot"" artillery option? I've had some truely epic moments with it,such as when 3 of my demi-cannons unloaded into the flank of the enemy's troops causing huge losses and a mass rout,but sometimes they seem to want to fire over the enemy's heads instead of hitting them, Nothing is most frustrating than seeing a volley of canister going flying over the advancing enemy,when hitting them could have made all the difference..
Well cannons aren't exactely the most accurate of weapons, so in real life they could easily miss the enemy in such a way.
Canister shot has more than once proven the decisive advantage in my battles. One time in my France campaign, the Marathans were storming a city held by my outnumbered garrison. I was holding them off pretty well and it wasn't enough as a couple of their regiments were gunning for the city square.
Waiting for them are my 12-pounders. I turn canister on. One volley later the enemy is routing. My infantry deals with the remaining forces and the city holds. :2thumbsup: That was probably the entire high-water mark of the Marathan Counter-offensive Effort.
I find that cannon shot of any sort is massively effective when it actually hits anything. The problem is that only roughly %10 of shots are effective.
Round shot seems to have the lowest accuracy, combined with their tendency to bounce over peoples heads (although it's not quite as bad as in previous TW titles, where shots tended to fly off into space).
I find that canister shot is one of the more effective sorts, as it tends to miss the least. The problem is my cannoneers always seem to be shooting at the edges of the enemy formation. I guess it's not polite to shoot at officers. :blankg:
My experiences with canister shot has been when it does hit at close range it does pretty good damage. When it hits at the longer ranges the damage isnt much. Most often though the shot goes over the troop's heads wether near or far. I have seen enemy forces turn and run as soon I click on the canister command so it does have some intimidation factor with against certain units. Overall however I'm not that impressed with canister shot in this game. It needs some tweaking.
I'm finding I'm using flaming carcass shot with 12lb cannons more than anything else besides standard solid shot. It does more damage against the enemy and is more accurate than canister shot as far as hitting something goes. You must be careful using it when your units are nearby however or you risk damaging your own troops since its more of an area effect type of fire.
Indeed, if someone were to turn a giant shotgun to your face, I think anyone'd run! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skott
The AI's omniscience really bugs me sometimes. It's kinda stupid to see the enemy general stop right at the edge of the little white line that marks your cannons range. It's even dumber when the entire enemy army runs if you so much as move your cursor towards the grapeshot button :sadg:
I find that with round shot, it's usually better to aim at the ground in front of them rather than the unit you want to go "sblurtch", esp. if said unit is moving. That way, "hits" will rebound into the target, overshoots will hopefully plow right into them, and shots falling short... still miss, OK. Still, 33% more efficient :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheogorath
With that said, they are still the most useless payload, by far. The only exception would be town and siege battles, where one can use them to feel the profound joy of blowing a wall from under the enemy's feet or making their hidey-hole collapse on top of 'em.
The problem I have with canister (well, with arty in general but canister makes it all the more apparent) is that arty pieces will not budge at all, ever. If you order them to fire at something on their left, the individual pieces pivot, but not the unit as a whole if you follow my meaning. So, when you try and target units going round your flanks (as you're wont to do), the front of cannon A ends up right on the ass of cannon B. And if you're shooting canister, there goes 2/3 of your battery, wee !
Most annoying, esp. considering that wasn't a problem in earlier games IIRC. The only ways to prevent it are either deploying more smartererly (something I'm unable to, for obvious reasons :) ), or doing the whole limber, pivot, unlimber dance, by which time the flankers are somewhere else anyway.
Its actually easier to it hit enemies who are on a slope, because it is a straight line of fire. On a flat field, the artileery needs to angle it and measure powder to make sure the cannonball lands on them. When the enemy unit is on a slope, the artillery just needs to load quite a bit of powder, and fire almost directly at the target without needing to aim too much.
Personally I've been finding canister shot highly useful, wiping out nearly an entire unit of Swedish cavalry once, with some five men left. Canister shot also won me the War of Silesia - silly Austrians and their oversized line infantry actually managed to pull together a large army once, and it nearly cost me my stack, if it wasn't for horse arty wheeling around to their flanks and shooting the smithereens out of them. Of course, it can also be disappointing at times (like that time when my masterful French artillerists managed to completely miss the enemy general from close up...), but generally I find it highly useful.
I had 4 batteries of 12 pounders lined up. The French decided to do a frontal charge. My 12 pounders were using cannister shot and were aiming to the skies. Only one volley was accurate the rest were a waste of gunpowder. In the end my artillery was decimated as were the French by my infantry.:wall:
As a fact I find artillery very disappointing. Firing at huge buildings takes a lot of time and a lot of misses unless you line your artillery right in front of the building at a distance of eighty meters. If you fire from some 350 meters they tend to miss. If you fire from some 200 meters they all fire over the target instead of hitting it a the base of the building.
Artillery is fairly poor IMHO unless babysat too much. I just use howitzers now whenever I attack and regular cannon when I defend. Howitzers decimate the enemy at range and force them to engage while funelling attackers into canister land breaks them pretty easily.
Anyone try to form something like:
where lines are infantry and X's are guns. The V formations are nice but this way, you hit enemy infantry from the side as well as deny cavalry a head on attack vector.Code:____ ____
\ __ /
X X
I did something like that but my cannisters shots were pounding the stars and not those French.
That's how I deployed, but it doesn't work much in the higher difficulties - the AI just attacks the flanks, and your cannon ends up tearing your own units to shreds if you stop paying attention to them for more than 3 seconds. And pivoting the whole V around takes time and *shudder* limbering...Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
I now usually deploy in a straight line, with the cannon right in front of the Line. Start with round shot to scare them into attacking. When the enemy closes in, switch to cannister ASAP, and once the line starts firing, I let the first musket volley end, then race them in front of the cannon before they are engaged (switching them off, obviously). If the enemy tries to cav. charge the cannon, the Line tears them to shreds in 5 seconds flat. The downside is this stategy means the cannon are only used during the first stages of the battle, but usually that's enough, esp. if I managed one or two decent canister volleys.
Other than that, the "deploy on hilltop with infantry down the slopes" trick still works wonders on the defensive ;)
I personally like pucket guns more than canister shot as the yare ridiculous against walls and reload much faster.
I've been tring this sort of thing of late:
WhereCode:__ __ X __ __ X __ __
H H H
_ = line
X = Cannon
H = Howitzer
Placing your general centraly and behind the line makes the enemy head straight down the middle.
If you expand the gap between the cannon batteries (add more line inf) you can exploit different crossfires.
Playing as the Ottoman's, I usually park a unit of melee Janissaries behind the cannons to protect them from melee -this sometimes works...
Alternativley, and at the risk of exposing your cannon, you can place them on the extreme end of your line inf, with cavalry or stake protected light inf as defense.
One cannon unit firing canister shots saved a battle for me recently.
I was fighting Dutch as Russia and in that battle Dutch had an advantage with both numbers and the quality of troops. But as their forces were concentrating on my line infantry, my cannon was firing at them from very close range. As the result, a very close victory, and that single cannon unit singlehandedly killed about 450 of their men! :2thumbsup:
I find the best way to aim cannister is in front of advancing infantry.. also, if you do this, the artillery will continue to aim on that line rather than follow the target into your own troops.. It also eases the problem of cannister flying over their heads..
Can you explain this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skott
Howitzers use carcass shot, and cannot use cannister.
Cannons use cannister, but can't use carcass.
I'm confused on what you've done to your game to fix this either/or situation. :help:
I'm not a big fan of cannons, either. I still build them, but howitzers are just way more effective.
Another problem I have with mobile artillery is how effective the AI's suicide cavalry charges are. Sure, I can repel them, but even a sneeze would make all the horses run away off the map. Now I'm stuck with fixed artillery since all the horses are gone.
Okay, let me clarify this a bit. I prefer to build 12lb howitzers and use the caracass shot over the normal cannons and their cannister shot. I'm finding the cannister shot and quicklime shot (higher research) doing better damage more often than cannister shot. I think cannister shot needs a little tweaking upwards in damage and accuracy at the closer ranges. Sorry if my post confused anyone. :smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
my cannons seem to dopretty well actually sometimes making over 100 kills each unit. it does take a lot of micro managing but i thik if it didnt the game would be too easy. canister has a tendency to miss but adjuting the aim and also having the arty in the right position helps i tend to place them at the edge of my lines with a couple of units to fend off cav charges. if i have enough arty i will aslo place a couple of units in the middle. even though they make a lot of kills they seem to gain exp very slowly mac i have got for arty is 3 chevrons
Since VH/VH not seen any units route on arti' fire, also they don't do crippling damage, and mainly they miss...But seeing arc's of carcass shot & the flame trails of the rockets coming from behind your lines looks impressive as hell.
The problem is that canister deploy most of the time from a 0 angle on the x axis even if the cannon is on a slope ( but sometime for some reason it fire strait up at +45 degree).
It is even more apparent when you use shrapnel shot, even if the cannonball arc down the shrapnel deploy using a 0 angle on x axis. Result : most shot will spread on the head on targeted unit harmlessly. The only time you can archive consistent hits is when the targeted unit is positioned higher than the cannon.
edit: well, i've did some testing and look like they somehow corrected that. Canister and shrapnel seem to deploy at angle. It still shoot over the head of unit when on a slope but it's better that before as now you can get a few shot to partially hit
I like to organize my armies into divisions, usually of three line infantry units and a battery. During a recent battle against the Dutch, I deployed like this:
__ __ __ __
__ __
x x
(x= battery) I also had some other units in reserve. The giant hole in the middle of my line, along with an open lane directly at my artillery, was like a red cape to a bull. Naturally, they tried to assault the middle, at which point I moved the two reserve regiments for each division into position to support:
__ __ __ __
\ /
x x
This pretty much resulted in a Dutch version of the charge of the light brigade; the combination of infilade fire from the flanking regiments and cannister from my batteries was enough to send the attack reeling back in disorder. (I had another unit of line infantry held in reserve behind the artillery just in case the enemy assault got too close to my precious field pieces, by the way). After that, the Dutch attempted to attack my flanks (In one of those, "Not bad, AI... Not good, but not bad" moments). The division on my right was made up of crack troops and repulsed the attack easily, but the left had a bit of trouble, taking quite a few casualties, and stood only when reinforced with a unit of grenediers and an Uhlan charge.
From all perspectives, one of the more exciting and interesting battles I've fought.
EDIT: Okay, I'm not sure how to format my diagrams so they look right. Sorry. In the first, each division had two regiments in front with one in reserve right behind, and were seperated by the width of about two regiments; the batteries were farther back and in between the divisions. In the second diagram, the two regiments in reserve moved inward to support the gap in the middle.
On VH Mortars are by far the most useful artillery, i often have 3 units or 4 in my armies, with maybe a normal cannon thrown in for variety.
On the topic of defending artillery.
If you're defending, and thus can setup defenses, start with a regiment or two of line infantry 'on top of' your artillery, and deploy an anti-cavalry or anti-infantry barrier (whichever is most appropriate against your enemy, usually ati-cavalry), so that the barrier is just a little in front of the artillery.
Start the game, and immediately back up the line infantry to behind the artillery, so they can fire at any approaching troops.
Your artillery will have a nice little bank of "charge me, I dare you" fortifications in front of it, in addition to any defenses deployed by the artillery themselves. Any cavalry that charge will be minced, and any infantry should be ripped up by rifle fire and canister shot. :)
One trick that I've found useful is to put the grenadier directly behind the guns (with canister) with grenades option and fire at will on. Arty is not in FaW and I aim the ground some yards in front of the enemy line to reduce the too high shoot. When the charging enemy enter in the granadier range zone they throw bombs over the artillery without shooting'em in the back as muskets done. Then I charge immediately with those big bad ugly boys and usually they rout the foes
ive only ever used canister shot once, but it was absolutely deadly. defending with demi cannons(non-movable), i set them up next to eachother with little baskets around them(dont remember what they're called). i set up my line infantry and russian grenadiers on the sides, with trenches in front of them. my cannons killed a few enemy from afar with round shot, but then the enemy massed in the center, right within all my cannons fields of fire. i switched to my (pretty new) canister shot, and in a few volleys most of the enemy were dead. at the end of the battle, my cannons alone killed over 800. my entire force was only about 600 men strong. i defeated a 1400 man army with only 600 men, 32 of which never joined the battle.
so what do i think of canister shot? if used wrong, its just wasting time. however if used right, oh hot damn you're gonna bankrupt the enemy when they pay for coffins!