CA, Bring Back the M2TW Reinforcement System, Please?

The M2TW Kingdoms Reinforcement system was great, and ETW's a serious step backwards, and one that prevents "epic" battles. Please bring back old Kingdom's system (were you could palce reinforcement armies under AI control and give them basic orders). At the very least, give what we had in vanilla M2TW, where we could at least place an reinforcemnt army under AI control to have it show up alongside the player's army. Having to trickle in reinforcement 1 unit a time under the player's 20 unit cap is both frustrating tactically and a "mood" killer in as much as it prevents having actual "Army" sized battles and isntead limits us to "Corps" sized engagements at best.

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I don't like it. You should still be able to throw it in as AI or have it trickle in. :yes:

I think it also makes the issue of "One superior troop stack facing two or more stacks of mediocre/poor troops" very unbalanced. The superior troops will be able to smash the initial stack easily and mopping up the reinforcements is really really easy when they enter one by one.

Signed.

The reinforcement system in ETW is both bugged and rediculous. Units don't appear where they should and you can no longer tell the AI to take control of your reinforcements. Sure it was at times a bit suicidal with them at times in M2, but it was still nice to be able to bring your numbers to bear against an invader.

I wholeheartedly agreee with this recomendation!

For me the most frustrating element is the disconnect between campaign map location and battle entry point. A definite step backwards from MTW2.

What's the point of holding a strategic location if the enemy are somehow able to get around you? It's nonsensical and really annoying -enough of the AI exploits! :furious3:

If they need to have a unit cap, let it be a general one....like they have in Mount&Blade....if one has 100 troops facing off against 500, then the ratio of the army in the battlefield starts off as 1:5.

The problem I had with the M2 and I think Rome was most of the time my reinforcements were delayed at least in Empire they have so far always turned up which I think is a plus.

So in short I prefer the system we have in Empire and what we had in Medieval 1 and Shogun.

90% in agreement. Personally though, I think a totally new system would be best, one that I have suggested before. :P I call it the 'tabs' system. Above the unit cards you would have up to 5 tabs. When you click on these tabs, it brings you to a different panel of unit cards. That way you could really command unlimited men. For performance sakes, there would have to be limits on it of course, but it could be awesome. You could also divide an army according to tabs. One panel for cavalry, one for artillery (think massive Russian artillery bombardments :beam:), and three for infantry. Why does CA never listen to the poor old Vuk? I should be a bloody game concept designer. :P Sometimes I think of the most awesome game concepts (ones that are not technology dependent), then 3-5 years later I see them in a game. :P Darnnit, the games I could make if I had a full design team...

AI? Just the option not to use your reinforcements at all would be a start...

At the very least bring back AI control of reinforcements CA. That was one of the best parts of MTW2.

Seconded! The current army battlefield placement & reinforcement system is bad!

Add my signature to this petition too! it seems, in the reinforcement department, CA has rolled all the way back to MTW1. I do not understand why, if in the previous two games they already had a more advanced system in place...

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Originally Posted by Vuk

90% in agreement. Personally though, I think a totally new system would be best, one that I have suggested before. :P I call it the 'tabs' system. Above the unit cards you would have up to 5 tabs. When you click on these tabs, it brings you to a different panel of unit cards. That way you could really command unlimited men. For performance sakes, there would have to be limits on it of course, but it could be awesome. You could also divide an army according to tabs. One panel for cavalry, one for artillery (think massive Russian artillery bombardments :beam:), and three for infantry. Why does CA never listen to the poor old Vuk? I should be a bloody game concept designer. :P Sometimes I think of the most awesome game concepts (ones that are not technology dependent), then 3-5 years later I see them in a game. :P Darnnit, the games I could make if I had a full design team...

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Someone proposed a similar system during RTW and suggested how it could be done as a mod. IIRC a CA poster here agreed and implied something was in the works, but we know how that turned out.

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Originally Posted by SpencerH

Someone proposed a similar system during RTW and suggested how it could be done as a mod. IIRC a CA poster here agreed and implied something was in the works, but we know how that turned out.

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It may have been me. :P I suggested it for RTW and M2TW. I have been quite pleased to see some of my suggestions taken up (whether they got the idea from me, from someone else, or thought of it themselves I do not care, all that matters is that they made it in. :beam: I will just believe that they saw my posts and said, "You know what? That Vuk fellow just doesn't stop rocking the game industry with his great concepts. He just gave us something to work on in our next game." :laugh4: ... :wall:), such as being able to make individual improvements in technology that will directly affect the respective aspects of existing units and make new units possible. This is one of these things that I think CA will just ignore me on though. :P It would be very hard for a player to control (though it would be easier if they implemented a system under which you could choose to assign AI leaders to each panel to micromanage for you and attempt to best carry out your orders, but you could override any individual choices they make of course), it would take lots and lots of testing and tweaking to get it so that it would not unbalance the game, and it probably would not increase their profits much. (which obviously is the main concern of all/most game designers; it is how they put food on the table :P) Tell you what though, if it makes it into the next Total War game, I am gonna bake a batch of cookies, tie it up with a pretty pink ribbon, and send it to their office! IMHO it would take TW to the next level of massiveness and awesomeness. It would make gameplay a blast, and allow you to use a much more diverse set of units.

There is an inherent problem with the M2TW reinforcement system (or option, rather. I always, always set it to be like the MTW1/ETW system). That is to say that the reinforcement are controlled by the AI. Given the tactics employed by the computer, using such an option would be condemning the majority of your reinforcing army to needless death as they marched back and forth in front of enemy lines, being shot to pieces.

Well, your reinfocements are no worse off than your AI opponents . . . so at the worst, it is something of an equalizer. And I will gladly accept a few extra casualties on occasion for the chance to get 2-4 armies in battle at once.

Besides, as you pointed out, you have the option in M2TW. That's the big thing I (and I believe alot of other people) are asking for, the choice. If you don't want the troops under AI control, you don't have to put them there, and instead can simply have them reinforce as they do currently. But for those of us that prefer to be able to bring large armies on the field, we too would like to have the option, at the very least, to put the army under AI control as in M2TW, and preferably to be able to give it basic orders is in Kingdoms. I, and others, find the bigger battles more immersive and, in their own way, more interesting.

I agree that ETW is a large step back from M2TW Kingdoms. Isn't the 20 unit cap a relic from the MTW days? Glad CA jumped back, what, like 5-6 years.

I agree aswell i loved some of the huge battles i had with the retrofit mod. I got pretty good at controlling the second army with the basic controls.

Maybe there will be a "reinforcement management" downloadable content pack for "only" 5$. ~D

Seriously, sounds like a big step back, I'd rather expected them to improve the system instead of rolling it back.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Maybe there will be a "reinforcement management" downloadable content pack for "only" 5$. ~D

Seriously, sounds like a big step back, I'd rather expected them to improve the system instead of rolling it back.

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One can only hope . . . though really, it should be in a free patch (seeing as they already have should have most of the code for it and all from Kingdoms).

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Originally Posted by DisruptorX

There is an inherent problem with the M2TW reinforcement system (or option, rather. I always, always set it to be like the MTW1/ETW system). That is to say that the reinforcement are controlled by the AI. Given the tactics employed by the computer, using such an option would be condemning the majority of your reinforcing army to needless death as they marched back and forth in front of enemy lines, being shot to pieces.

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Well, I liked the Kingdoms version. I would usually put the AI-controlled reinforcements into Defensive stance, then march them around to where the actively controlled units deployed. I would use the actively controlled units to get the battle to a critical point, then put the AI-controlled units into Bombard or Attack mode and direct them forward (usually, on the flanks). Great fun -- I miss it, since 18th-Century battles were generally larger affairs that Medieval ones.

And I hate being limited to 6 capital ships in naval battles. Anyone ever heard of Trafalgar? :helloo: