Civil war

All this talk about civil wars in the "2 roman factions" thread in EB2 got me thinking about how it could be implemented in in EB 1.2.
So question: who and why would start a civil war? answer: 1) son of the king with an army who got the disinherited trait, 2) popular generals with big armies and unhappy toward the king.

There are only two answeres to the question because any other internal conflict would be simply a rebellion or rougue armies (proudly represented by riots and eleutheroi aphistamenoi).

So I was wondering if something like a "feels unhappy" trait line could be implemented, and if so the general would go through a series of worst traits, eg "has revolty(:laugh4:) thoughts".... and so forth.

Now make a note i'm not secifiyng anything about factions, this would and could happen to every faction, after eg a serious defeat (and i'm talking about a very serious one, kinda like the one in Swiss Barbar's AAR with the northern and southern ptolies).

About princes, i'm not really shure..... i don't have enogh knowledge on the fact(sorry).
So in the end it all boils down to one statement: if anyone has the knowledge and\or the skills to implement something like that in Eb for an unoficcial mod and would like to help me please say so and i feel we could add a very important missing peice to the great puzzle EB is.:2thumbsup:

There arent enough factions to display a civil war. But anyways if I would mod something like that, than I would take BI, make a shadow faction like the western roman rebells(In IB) and kick out the casse.:book:

Id replace saba because i like the casse

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Originally Posted by seienchin

There arent enough factions to display a civil war. But anyways if I would mod something like that, than I would take BI, make a shadow faction like the western roman rebells(In IB) and kick out the casse.:book:

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I've done exactly the same with my game as Makedonia. Turned them into the Eugeneis (nobles) and enabled the Loyalty traits. Now when a city of mine revolts to them, it automatically goes to them. If they are dead, this spawns them into being, otherwise it just adds to their regions.

Maion

Ok but I doubt it would be realistic to represent eg the Cesar\Pompey wars with a simple shadow faction.....
No i was talking more along the lines of giving them to eleutheroi but that's not good enough, we would need a major unrest "un-bonus" in some cities and make the general an actual threat, the eleutheroi can't do all that and neither can a shadow faction. However maybe if we combined the two.....
Any ideas?

program a new game engine :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

Ok but I doubt it would be realistic to represent eg the Cesar\Pompey wars with a simple shadow faction.....
No i was talking more along the lines of giving them to eleutheroi but that's not good enough, we would need a major unrest "un-bonus" in some cities and make the general an actual threat, the eleutheroi can't do all that and neither can a shadow faction. However maybe if we combined the two.....
Any ideas?

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The loyalty feature makes characters with low Loyalty points revolt to the shadow faction. While I haven't enabled Loyalty fully, if I have a FM close to a region (or within a city) that rebels as soon as I hit End Turn, he turns over to the shadow faction, including his army. Makes more than enough for roleplay if you ask me.

Maion

even if a few generals now and then turned to rebels would be enough for me really

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

The loyalty feature makes characters with low Loyalty points revolt to the shadow faction. While I haven't enabled Loyalty fully, if I have a FM close to a region (or within a city) that rebels as soon as I hit End Turn, he turns over to the shadow faction, including his army. Makes more than enough for roleplay if you ask me.

Maion

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How did you do that???:dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin

How did you do that???:dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:

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You have to have BI for that. RTW does not have the loyalty feature, but BI does.

Fine, I do have BI and I do play on BI.exe, what next?
I presume that one has to enable the loyalty feature manually and tweak it somehow as EB does not include it, being designed for RTW.exe. It would be nice to post a quick guide on how to this, if someone has tried it before. I am sure there will be a lot of interest in this.
Maion? :yes: Please! :beam:

OK, I'll look through some notes I keep and make a guide at some point, though don't expect it to be done soon. I'm planning on enjoying my oncoming Easter vacations to the fullest, which basically means sleeping and eating. Only. OK, maybe getting drunk and having some "sexy time" (as Borat puts it) too :clown:

Maion

Thank you very much for your commitment.:applause: Meanwhile enjoy happy Easter and all the beauties the spring and sun is bringing about!:Zzzz::holiday::painting::couch:

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Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin

Fine, I do have BI and I do play on BI.exe, what next?
I presume that one has to enable the loyalty feature manually and tweak it somehow as EB does not include it, being designed for RTW.exe. It would be nice to post a quick guide on how to this, if someone has tried it before. I am sure there will be a lot of interest in this.
Maion? :yes: Please! :beam:

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Just look here. That is the thread about BI EB, if you had not found it already.

Maion, you should public a mini-mod. Your way definitely sounds easier than what I did, examining every FM manually and disbanding and respawing their troops.

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

The loyalty feature makes characters with low Loyalty points revolt to the shadow faction. While I haven't enabled Loyalty fully, if I have a FM close to a region (or within a city) that rebels as soon as I hit End Turn, he turns over to the shadow faction, including his army. Makes more than enough for roleplay if you ask me.

Maion

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But i don't just want to role play... I want the actual experience of a civil war, and a few rougue(sp) generals are not enough..... i assume, i never actually had that happen in my BI campaigns.

If you could make them rebel to a shadow faction and march on your captial through some kind of script but i dont know if its possible.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Maion, you should public a mini-mod. Your way definitely sounds easier than what I did, examining every FM manually and disbanding and respawing their troops.

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I was planning for some time now to make a Makedonian mini-mod, with BI features and all. By the way, this character-turning-rebels things seems not to work anymore, strangely enough... Might have to look what's happened.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

But i don't just want to role play... I want the actual experience of a civil war, and a few rougue(sp) generals are not enough..... i assume, i never actually had that happen in my BI campaigns.

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That's simply not doable. As you may understand, you ask for too much. This is an old engine, remember.

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Originally Posted by Charles the hammer

If you could make them rebel to a shadow faction and march on your captial through some kind of script but i dont know if its possible.

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Too complicated and unnecessary. Plus, the AI would probably just stand there and look at your capital.

Maion

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Originally Posted by Cyrus

But i don't just want to role play... I want the actual experience of a civil war, and a few rougue(sp) generals are not enough..... i assume, i never actually had that happen in my BI campaigns.

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well if you did get this system for rebellions working then you could always give the new rebel faction, via force diplomacy, the regions you want to be involved in the civil war. It is still just role playing, but taken one step further.

Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by seienchin

There arent enough factions to display a civil war. But anyways if I would mod something like that, than I would take BI, make a shadow faction like the western roman rebells(In IB) and kick out the casse.:book:

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In EB, there are many good factions, but some do not have much historical relevance in my mind.
I am not saying that they are not large and important factions, but I say that historically they have not however had a major European expansion. That is why factions as Casse, Lusitana, and perhaps others could become Eleutheroi.
They are primarily defensive factions.
Released with the factions you can create other interesting factions and better balancing the battle map. :2thumbsup:
For example, a Numidia which slows the expansion of Carthage, or a faction Illyrian to balance the expansion of the Greek people towards the north, or Syracuse, or a Galatian faction .
But what attracts me most are 2 Germanic factions.
In SPQR mod anyway you can find ideas for the civil war. In this mod you use a lot spawn_army (showing Pirro, Cimbri+Teutoni against Gaius Marius, Ariovisto against Caesar, Spartacus, etc.).
I like it a lot thanks to my thirst for large battles.
However, Good idea Cyrus !!!:drunk: