Spain post-patch

Wow! I started a Spanish game (on H/N) and found it alot harder than before. In the first few years, I was faced with wars in Flanders with the UP, in Italy with the Italian States, in Iberia/North Africa with Morocco and in NA with the Cherokee and Louisiana (costing me the French alliance, so I also have less protection from the GB and Dutch fleets).

Combined with the nerfing of the Spanish fleet, they are really tough now.

This is actually good. Never before in a TW game have I felt so besieged. I have to now decide where to face losses so I can retain what is important.

im the same cept with GB, started a new game on h/h and its actually quite challenging atm im focusing on beating up some native americans and protecting the 13 colonies (im not doin a very good job atm too! lol

keepin the peace in europe and rushing trade fleets to the trade theatres when i have money to make them. Its very VERY challenging and ive lost several battles against massed natives and lost a province too :)

glad im not the only one enjoying a patch that actually made the game challenging !

Cheers Knoddy

In spite of my first impression post patch I found Spain very playable but it took a bit of thought to get into that position.

I didn’t have to give away or sell any regions but I did have to make alliances and spend most of my starting cash to get agreements. They all seem to be holding so long as you don’t ask anyone to go to war.

You also want to rearrange and replace ministers very quickly and keep checking to see if any better ones show up.

Also don’t be surprised if Mexico and Columbia emerge before you have New Spain.

I was a bit frustrated (vast understatement) when I saw I could not ship tobacco from America because of the changes made in the game. You may want to pay close attention to what is upgraded and don’t bother with any plantations until you upgrade your ports. You may even want to experiment with replacing one of your military ports with a commercial one, just save before you do so if it is not the best you can always go back.

On turn one I allied with the Italian States, made Savoy a trade partner and protectorate. Allied with and got a trade agreement with Portugal and tried to secure agreements with Genoa. They didn’t budge and soon went to war. But I was allied with everyone on their borders so the war amounted to naval actions where I captured a 5th rate.

The Cherokee came and took Florida but it is no great loss at the moment. The pirates attacked first turn and I captured their fluyt. I sent all the ships I could muster to trade areas to reserve spots and had to build the three in the Mediterranean to combat Genoa. That is as far as I have gotten.

Research is slow and you need desperately the port upgrade to expand, but be advised the AI will find a way to impede any gains you make. Just be prepared for what may come.

the more i play in my GB campaign the more i find im impressed by the changes, yes the ai is quite aggressive diplomatically, maybe even too much but the changes FORCE the player to not blitz, u cant amass armies and zerg, u cant go the whole way down the military tech tree and ignore every other one, u have to concentrate on building up ur economy getting trade agreements so then u can actually build up armies, i am getting in about 10k a turn and im bout 25 turns into my GB campaign, ive basically ignored europe till i can secure the americas only thing im worrying about in europe is my economic buildings and infrastructure.

all in all im quite impressed and very much enjoying a challenging game as GB.

Cheers Knoddy

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Originally Posted by knoddy

the more i play in my GB campaign the more i find im impressed by the changes, yes the ai is quite aggressive diplomatically, maybe even too much but the changes FORCE the player to not blitz, u cant amass armies and zerg, u cant go the whole way down the military tech tree and ignore every other one, u have to concentrate on building up ur economy getting trade agreements so then u can actually build up armies, i am getting in about 10k a turn and im bout 25 turns into my GB campaign, ive basically ignored europe till i can secure the americas only thing im worrying about in europe is my economic buildings and infrastructure.

all in all im quite impressed and very much enjoying a challenging game as GB.

Cheers Knoddy

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That is true for some factions but not all.

Prussia, Poland, the MC are blitz factions. If you just try to sit and build with those you loose advantages. Their incomes will support enough troops to sustain conquests and gain a very strong position without building much more than farms.

To a lesser extent UP have the troops to take out one region, and if France masses troops it can do the same, just not on the first turn like the other 4.

Prussia can accomplish its short game or prestige game goals in 10 years. The MC can take two regions on the first turn and keep up a steady expansion. Poland is a bit more of a slow and steady expansion type.

Most of the buildings now are too expensive to bother with past the second level. The faster your faction can expand the better off it will be in the end.

It is really too early to tell how the whole game plays until more campaigns are finished. There are a lot of surprises I have seen in the early game but I have not played a faction into the mid game or end as of yet.

Actually I found turtling a viable strategy with poland; you have 2 armies and 4 fronts. No way you can blitz, as you would get devastated. What I did was:
a) AI declares war
b) i attack and capture a settlement
c) I destroy all buildings and sell the settlement back for peace and some cash
d) another AI declares war; I reinforce the army and send it to capture another settlement.

I kept playing this game with ST petersburg (selling to russians), Transylvania (austrians), Dresden (prussians) and once I sold the crimean region to the ottomans... After 15 turns of such things (and most enjoyable battles!), I was developed and could afford decent armies and expand.

An interesting strategy. Unfortunately, it wouldn't work with my current GB campaign. The AI doesn't seem to have much - if any - cash on hand past the first turn. I couldn't sell Flanders to the UP on turn 2, even for a miserly 1000 gp... And now that I've reached 1725, everyone except GB (myself), Austria and possibly Russia seem to be broke...

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Originally Posted by anweRU

An interesting strategy. Unfortunately, it wouldn't work with my current GB campaign. The AI doesn't seem to have much - if any - cash on hand past the first turn. I couldn't sell Flanders to the UP on turn 2, even for a miserly 1000 gp... And now that I've reached 1725, everyone except GB (myself), Austria and possibly Russia seem to be broke...

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Look for factions whose wealth is noted as 'spectacular'. As to GB: it's actually a great faction to "turtle" given the player takes care of the "pirate problem" early. Dunno if fighting off the indians and French from the 13 colonies and gifting the re-conquered provinces back to them count as turtling though, but that's how I spent my first 30 or so years with GB.

Yeah, not sure about calling that turtling... certainly not from my pre-patch experience anyway (3 way madness against cherokee, iroquoi and Huron and once). I recently started a post patch GB campaign though and find the Huron much easier to hold off from Rupert's land, the cherokee's ambition and strength much reduced and the Iroquoi as belligerent with the 13 col's as ever (god i wish allies wouldn't DW on my protectorates) -but unable to do much.

If I were playing as spain, i would look to cut my losses and redistribute some territory, maybe swap florida for french Guyana and flanders for ceylon -or florida and flanders for ceylon.

If successfull, that would leave you to concentrate on the Med (italy & africa), the caribean and latin america -with the ready opportunity of expansion into india -or simply sitting on trade whilst busy elsewhere.

On a long campaign, you could always go back for flanders & florida, peace with the upstart UP need only be temporary...

well my GB camp just got interesting, France DoW the 13 colonies so i came in to help, but unfortunately i was still at war with the Cherokee and the Iroqui so i basically abandoned my front line provinces to the risk of being taken to get my 2 full stacks to defend the 13 Colonies from the French and it worked. i destroyed their troops and am in the process of taking their towns in america with my 2 rather depleted full stacks. however i did loose territory to the cherokee but i feel that once ive secured the northern border by destroying the French ill be fine.

i also looked into takin Paris to knock them out of the game completely but unfortunately Paris being Paris has half a stack of line infantry and half a stack of peasants and with my income i cant raise a big enough army to take it lol.

very interesting and challenging game, several provinces in america have changes hands several times and the income changes are making it hard to have enough troops where i need them (which is good cos it makes it challenging)

Cheers Knoddy

Spain is a fun one. Territories everywhere, and your king is a drooling idiot.

I had to start over in my most recent game after unsuccesfully trying to defend all starting territories. Doing so is likely impossible. I was broke and could not afford any new regiments. I started a new game and traded away Naples and Florida immediately for alliances. (Naples gets taken by Italy anyway, so I can just take it back). I then consolidated all my NA armies and worked on objectives with that small force, while crushing Portugal and Morroco.

I basically never had any money, but it was fun. I like how you can't do everything, I was forced into focusing on strength in Europe, and abandoning expansion in NA other than easy targets. I couldn't really build much of a navy, either. I regularly have to retreat from massive pirate navies from their last stronghold.

I should have the objectives by 1750, the hardest one will probably be Austria, since I think I'll have to get military access or start wars with 1 province factions to get there.

I exchanged Flanders for Curacao. This got me out of harms way with the UP. I also gave Lombardy tot the Italian states in exchange for an alliance. This secured Naples; I did not have to garrison it. I abandoned Florida because it is hardly worth the effort. The troops from Flanders and Lombardy I used to take out Morocco and Portugal. My plan was to get the mission done asap but this was disturbed by a declaration of war by the French! They were helping Louisiana which decided to attack New Spain. Since my army was in North Africa this was quite peculiar but my rake warned that France didn't have the forces to attack. My army in the Caribbean (1/2 stack) had to march from Yucatan to Texas because the enemy fleets were disrupting my troop transport. I managed to make peace with the French and captured all of the Barbary States. Of course the French restarted the war and I had to hurry my army back to Spain and raise some extra units. These combined forces invaded France and captured Paris. A new peace agreement was signed and France handed me her Caribbean island. My half stack was attacked by the Pueblos on the bridge between Texas and New Spain and hardly won that battle. Those native lancers can do a lot of harm. Since there was now peace in Europe and I had one front to defend (Paris), I had some time to upgrade my European possessions. France is a very wealthy region as are Spain, Naples and Portugal. As I grew richer I was able to reinforce my colonial army in New Spain and capture Texas. Mission accomplished after 25 turns and some time to turtle. While upgrading my regions in Southern America I was able to increase my army there to two and a half stacks. These I used to wipe out the Louisiana rebels, which rebelled against France, the Cherokee, the USA (who kindly captured all GB's regions for me), the Iroquois and finally Quebec. By 1745 I had so much regions that after upgrading them I could afford two very strong fleets, a squadron and eight stacks. After 1750 I controlled North America, except GB's three starting regions and the region of the Plains Indians. By now the UP was destroyed and I took its remaining possessions. Just as my army had captured Ceylon the Ottomans decided to declare war, so that army was redirected to the Persian Gulf. It quickly took Baghdad. I had that army march west to take Damascus and join with an army that took Egypt and Jerusalem. These two armies next marched on Istanbul. I trained two new armies and captured Athens. I had now four armies to destroy the last remnants of the Ottoman Empire, but Poland decided to join the fun, claiming my throne. These four armies were now located in the Balkan and since Poland had destroyed Austria, I was able to launch an attack on Hungary and Austria. Here I stopped the campaign because it was starting to become boring. It is 1780 and I have way to much money, armies and no real competition left. CA has managed to stretch the interesting part of the campaign.

Now I hope that they improve the AI and give a little more money in the beginning of the campaign.

I had that trouble with Louisiana in my first game, too. Its another reason to give away Florida. Louisiana won't declare war on you, and you won't have to fight the Cherokee.

You really can't afford a war with France.