Mercenary ships?

I was lurking over in the center forums when i read a question about mercenary ships, and the answer was that the Team didn't know if it was gonna be used.

It's old info though, and i don't know if it's been decided since then, much less discussed, but i tried thinking about wether it should be or not.

I just wondered if it was realistic, in ancient times, to have an army walk up to the coast and hire ships. Now, i'm far from being an expert on ancient times, so plz tell me if i'm wrong, but this is what i figured.

Ships would not hang around in the middle of nowhere (unless smugglers, but even then). However there's a lot of coastal towns not represented on the map, the army might just walk in there and requisition/buy some ships. But there wouldn,t be a lot, and they wouldnt quite be fit for war, i'd think. In the game, that would probably fit some kind of very weak, but possibly very cheap ships. You wouldnt want your army to stay aboard that more than a turn, because it would get slaughtered if it was caught.

There's also another thing i thought it could represent. In the year in history chronicles, it mentions Makedonia allying with pirates. I'd reckon we could have "pirate ships" hireable in the aegen sea. Those pirates apparently played a part in the wars at the time, but their presence cannot be satisfactorily represented, as you cannot have a pirate settlement (they dont settle) and one strong navy usually ends up doing what navies did in EB, that is migrate to the northern sea. The representation wouldnt last long.
Besides, their alliance with makedon was probably along the lines of how you hire mercenaries, i imagine (keyword imagine, i have no idea, feel free to correct me)


So those we're my thoughts on the subject, humble lurker that i am. :clown:

Pirates would, as today, need bases, harbours in which to resupply and sell their loot. There, you would probably be able to hire them as other mercenaries. One can even theorise that poleis such as Massilia would have a fleet of suspiciously fast and well-armed ships besides its fleet, "courier-ships" or the like, but in actuality pirates and smugglers serving the ruler.

In the Late Republic with all its turmoil we hear of many pirates and the Romans often tried to clear the sea of them (as they disrupted the vital grain supply). Quintus Sertorius was allied to a Cilician pirate lord, Caesar himself was captured by pirates, Pompey "cleared the seas" of them and I seem to Recall Augustus doing it again... During the principate being a pirate was probably somewhat more difficult as the Med was suddenly "Mare Nostrum". But as the Empire fell, piracy spread, just as it must have been prevalent before during the wars between the Diadochii.

I say, keep the mercenary fleets, and include some Ligurines or whatever it is those pirate ships that you get in your reformed navy is named...

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Originally Posted by Macilrille

In the Late Republic with all its turmoil we hear of many pirates and the Romans often tried to clear the sea of them (as they disrupted the vital grain supply). Quintus Sertorius was allied to a Cilician pirate lord, Caesar himself was captured by pirates, Pompey "cleared the seas" of them and I seem to Recall Augustus doing it again... During the principate being a pirate was probably somewhat more difficult as the Med was suddenly "Mare Nostrum". But as the Empire fell, piracy spread, just as it must have been prevalent before during the wars between the Diadochii.

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Piracy was actually less prevalent before and during the wars of the Diadochii. It became a problem during the late Republic because, unlike the Diadochii empires and their predecessors, the Roman Republic did maintain a large standing navy. At this point there were no significant naval forces in the Mediterranean, making it a heaven for freebooters. The political turmoil of the late Republic didn't exactly help: the Senate was unwilling to allow a large concentration of force into the hands of one general or admiral, so anti-piracy actions were local and piecemeal. There were similar problems on the edges of the Empire: local rebellions and banditry were rife, but the Senate was more concerned with her own powergames. Both problems were solved with the introduction of the principate.

Back to the original topic: mercenary ships aren't unrealistic, as long as you cannot hire a serious navy this way. However, I wonder how the A.I. would deal with it. Would it understand that a naval invasion on a hired navy is a bad idea of the enemy has real warships?

It doesnt have to be pirates.
Do you all remember the Roman worst ships in EB? They are just trading ships used to transport troops.
I think it would be realistic, if armies in EB had the choice to buy/take the local trading ships as mercenarys.:book:
They cost like 1000 upkeep so players would really only use them, when they need it. And the roman AI would stop to lose all their money to the upkeep of this ships.

I think it would be a nice feature. Hiring some Sicilian pirates just like Spartacus did. Then only wait and see if they show up!

well yeah, i was considering using the lowliest possible ship for non-pirates, that would incite the use of them for only short travels or really big emergencies, cuz if they'd get caught on the sea they'd get slaughtered.

Besides, i imagine theres a way to limit the number of available mercenaries for each region, same would be said about ships.

As for pirates, maybe extend to whole Med, but with some rarity.

Grabbed trading ships : maybe 1 or 2 in most coastal region..... 3 or 4 in greek - roman wolrd
Professional Pirate ships : 1 before marian reform
2 or 3 after roman goes to late republic (remember we can put a time tag in mercenaries in M2TW)

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Grabbed trading ships : maybe 1 or 2 in most coastal region..... 3 or 4 in greek - roman wolrd
Professional Pirate ships : 1 before marian reform
2 or 3 after roman goes to late republic (remember we can put a time tag in mercenaries in M2TW)

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I have to say this looks like a very reasonable suggestion. Of course the devs are bound by lots of constraints (balance, engine etc), but on the face of it a few weak merc ships has a decent eb period flavour to it.

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

I have to say this looks like a very reasonable suggestion. Of course the devs are bound by lots of constraints (balance, engine etc), but on the face of it a few weak merc ships has a decent eb period flavour to it.

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My thoughts exactly.

Quick question to the Team : any plans to include the mercenary ships, maybe not exactly how we figured but something similar at least?
Because we can say all we want that it would be somewhat historically accurate, you guys are the only ones to know aboutthe issues cyclops mentions, not to forget unit limit.