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I don't know if anybody has done this (I didn't find anything in the forum), but would like to do an Illyrian campaign (just for fun:2thumbsup:).
I'm asking for some suggestions and tips, some historical background, their importance in the time EB takes place and some unit rosters for Illyria.
I was thinking on switching one of the existing factions (maybe saba) to become Illyria. Some tips to how to do this, and things that I should be careful with.
Many thanks in advance
First of all, let me tell you this sounds like a good idea. Secondly, I presume you mean AAR and not (just) campaign? Meaning, you're planning on writing a story about them right?
Well, in any case, I'll present you with some info of the Illyrians and their importance during our timeframe. Here is some background as to how they came to be as a nation:
"According to some scholars, the IIlyrians belong to a group of Indo-European tribes who came from the north to settle in the Balkans towards the end of the second millennium BC. According to the German archaeologist, Gustav Kossina, whose theories are the most well known, the Illyrians were an ethinic group founded in Lusatia, an area in western Poland. Eventually, carrying with them the Lusatian civilisation from the fields of urns, they made for the south. But this theory was only assumed because of the simple resemblance between the Lusatian civilisation and the Pannonian civilisation of Hungary.
Now in the true Illyrian areas, there are no archaeological remains proving the presence of Lusatian civilization. Some scholars who have studied the Lusatian civilisation have even reached the conclusion that they were Slav origin, while others consider that their origin was Germanic.
A new approach to the Illyrian problem was made possible by recent excavations in the prehistoric of Illyrian centres in present-day Albania. The objects discovered in the necropolis of tumuli at Vajza (in the Vlore region) in south Albania dating from the end of the second millennium and from the beginning of the first millennium BC give us proof of a continuity between the civilisation of the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Since the bearers of the Vajza civilisation were Illyrians themselves, the hypothesis that the latter equally created the Bronze civilisation has gained more and more consistency. It has been confirmed by relics discovered in the tumuli in the plain Pazhok (Elbasan, central Albania) were the findings date partly from 1900-1700BC and partly from 1400BC.The important fact is we are now talking about indigenous Illyrian population.
The typical local ceramics which, in may ways, maintain the traditions of the Aeneolithic ceramics support this thesis. New evidence in favour of the essentially Illyrians character of the Bronze Age civilisation is provided by the archaeological remains found in Maliq and Tren. The relics concerned consist of vase dating from the Copper Age which increase in number during Bronze Age. The shapes of these painted vases and the geometric motifs which one finds later on metallic objects are typically Illyrian character.
We are led to believe from all this that the bearers of the Aeneolithic civilisation continued to populate the Maliq and Tren sites during the Bronze Age. This was the population which was later to form the Illyrian Group. It seems, therefore, that Illyrians are indigenous in this area. The theory of the indigenous nature of Illyrians in Balkan has equally been confirmed by the discoveries made in the formerly Illyrians areas of Zocov and Ptuj in Yugoslavia.
The Illyrians were one of the most numerous of the tribes of ancient Europe, occupying the western part of the Balkan peninsula. The territories which they inhabited were bounded on the north by the Sava and the Danube, on the south by the Gulf of Ambracia and the northern areas of Greece, on the east by the Morava and the Vardar which seperated them from Thrace, on the west by the Adriatic and the Ionian seas. Within these boundaries, the northern regions were populated, according to the ancient writings, bye various tribes, the most important of which were the Liburnians, the Iapydi, the Dalmatians, the Daesitiati, and the Ardeates. The main tribes who settled on territories of present-day Albania itself were the Labeates, the Dardarians, the Paeonians, the Pirustae, the Parthinians, the Penestae, the Taulanti, the Amantes, the Bullini, the Encheliae, the Dassaretae and the Chaonians. The Essarpians and the Iapygians from south-east Italy were also Illyrian tribes.
The earliest written information about the Illyrians can be found in Homer. In the fourteenth book of Iliad, the Paeonians are quoted as horsemen who having come from the their fertile regions under the leadership of Asteroups, took part in the Trojan War. Also according to Homer, Ulysses landed on the fertile coasts of the Thesprotians on his return from Troy, and was welcomed by Phaedon, their generous and heroic king."
- The above is taken from www.illyrians.org
From the same site, I found some information about the contact they had with the Greek colinists in the area, as well as the amount of influence they recieved from Greek culture:
"Greek colonisation of the Illyrian coast, with Corinth and Corcyra being the first to take the initiative, started in the seventh century BC. In 627 BC, roughly on the site occupied today by the town of Durres, inhabitants of Corinth and Corcyra founded the colony of Epidamnos and Dyrrachium. A few years later at the beginning of the sixth century BC, other colonists from the same region founded another colony, Apollonia, on a hill, slightly farther south and slightly inland. It was linked to the sea by the river Aoos (the Vjosa of today) which was navigable along its lower stretch. It was from these two centres that Greek civilisation penetrated to the interior of the Illyrian region.
A few centuries later, Dyrrachium and Apollonia had become important towns. Encircled by strong walls, and surrounded by agricultural lands, they became poleis -that is to say, city-states. The city wall of Apollonia, constructed with large parallelepiped blocks of stones and bricks, which has been partially uncovered in the last few years, stretches for more than 4 kilometres and encloses a surface area of almost 100 hectares where a population of 40,000-50,000 people lived at the time of the city's expansion. Architecture and sculpture were quick to flourish in these cities.
In the middle of the fifth century BC, Dyrrachium and Apollonia struck their first coins, silver stator, and therefore freed themselves from economic dependence on the metropolis. At first these two cities were governed by a small council of aristocracy, composed according to Aristotle, of notable eupatrids. In 436 BC there was a civil war at Dyrrachium. The Taulantians and the city of Corcyra supported the aristocracy, while Corinth took the side of the rebels. Relations between Dyrrachium and Apollonia and the Illyrians played an important role in the history of these two cities, even these relations weren't always friendly. Pausanians, in his Greek Itinerary, quotes an inscription which he had read in Elide: this inscription was discovered in the source of research done at Olimpia in the last few years. It mentions a war which took place in the first half of the fifth century started by Apollonia against the Abantians or the Amantians, their southern neighbours.
In the fourth century BC, after the formation of the Illyrian state beyond Dyrrachium and Apollonia, the initiative passed to the Illyrians. In the middle of the century their king Monounios occupied Dyrrachium. He had his first coin struck, which bore the legend "Basileus Monounios". His successor, Glaucias, established his power in these two cities, and then defended them against Cassandra, king of Macedonia, who occupied them for a while. The Illyrian coins, the "Illyrian drachmas" spread throughout Illyria, and reached Dacia (present-day Romania) and Thrace (present-day Bulgaria).
These new relations were also favourable to the Illyrian people living in the two towns. In the Dyrrachium necropolis, dating form the Hellenistic period, many funeral stelae (columns or flat stones) have been discovered, a third of them bear Illyrian names. We find names we actually know, like Agron, Teuta, Gentius, Bato, Dazai, Plator, Epicade, but also strange and unknown names like Anyla, Labia, Lydra, Skyrthan, Teutius, Zaimina and others.
Research has revealed arms, metal ornaments and earthenware receptacles with Illyrian writing. Sculptures depict figures in Illyrian costumes. Sculptures and relief also dedicated to Illyrian gods. Naturally the centuries have not spared ancient monuments. So all that been left at Dyrrachium are fragments of public buildings, and equally rare sculptures witnessing the influence of classical art. However, a coloured mosaic from the end of the fourth century has been saved on which a woman's head can be distinguished; it is a remarkable piece of work. Moreover, recent research has revealed the physical features of the city of Apollonia more clearly. The wall supporting the Acropolis has remain almost intact. But research has only revealed a few traces of the monuments which embellished Apollonia in Greek period, the time of its expansion. However, the few that do remain do give us some impression - in particular, the supporting wall at the foot of the hill dominated by the temple of Artemis, and the porticoes with their seventeen stone niches, their thick octagonal columns and their sloping half-columns, crowned with remarkable Ionic capitals. Cicero's words about Apollonia "magna urbis et gravis" sufficiently illustrate the importance of this city."
Something prief about their history:
"Illyria appears in Greco-Roman historiography from the 4th century BC. The Roman Republic subdued the Illyrians during the 2nd century BC. An Illyrian revolt was crushed under Augustus, resulting in the division of Illyria in the provinces of Pannonia in the north and Dalmatia in the south.
Under the Byzantine Empire, there was again a prefecture of Illyricum, which in the 7th century was overrun by the Slavic incursions and ultimately absorbed into the emerging Slavic states, the First Bulgarian Empire, the Serb Archonty and the Croat Duchy. And later on, from the 10th century, into parts of the early Bosnian Kingdom."
- Taken from Wikipedia
Something about the Illyrian Kingdoms, source same as above:
"The Illyrians formed several kingdoms in the central Balkans, and the first known Illyrian king was Bardyllis. Illyrian kingdoms were often at war with ancient Macedonia, and the Illyrian pirates were also a significant danger to neighbouring peoples. At the delta of Neretva, there was a strong Hellenistic influence on the Illyrian tribe of Daors. Their capital was Daorson located in Ošanići near Stolac in Herzegovina, which became the main center of classical Illyrian culture. Daorson, during the 4th century BC, was surrounded by megalithic, 5 meter high stonewalls (large as those of Mycenae in Greece), composed out of large trapeze stones blocks. Daors also made unique bronze coins and sculptures. The Illyrians even conquered Greek colonies on the Dalmatian islands. Queen Teuta of Issa (today the Vis (island)) was famous for having waged wars against the Romans."
Again from the same source, a description on the Illyrian Wars:
"In the Illyrian Wars of 229 BC, 219 BC and 168 BC Rome overran the Illyrian settlements and suppressed the piracy that had made the Adriatic unsafe for Italian commerce. There were three campaigns, the first against Teuta the second against Demetrius of Pharos and the third against Gentius. The initial campaign in 229 BC marks the first time that the Roman Navy crossed the Adriatic Sea to launch an invasion."
A little about the religion of the Illyrians as well:
"The Illyrian town of Rhizon (Risan, Montenegro) had its own protector called Medauras, depicted as carrying a lance and riding on horseback. Human sacrifice also played a role in the lives of the Illyrians.
Arrian records the chieftain Cleitus the Illyrian as sacrificing three boys, three girls and three rams just before his battle with Alexander the Great. The most common type of burial among the Iron Age Illyrians was tumulus or mound burial. The kin of the first tumuli was buried around that, and the higher the status of those in these burials the higher the mound. Archaeology has found many artifacts placed within these tumuli such as weapons, ornaments, garments and clay vessels. Illyrians believed these items were necessary for a dead person's journey into the afterlife.
The apostle Paul said of himself that he had preached the gospel "from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum" , but the region is not mentioned again in the Bible."
Now about warfare. Seems the Illyrians turned into a pretty formidable power during the 4th century BC under king Bardyllis (385-358 BC). He was succeeded by Grabos who in turn was succeeded by Glaukias (317-303 BC). Glaukias was defeated by Cassandros, Successor of Alexander the Great in 314 BC. Glaucias was the guy who took Pyrrhus of Epirus under his protection when he was young.
Here's something about their style of warfare:
"The Illyrians used javelins and oval shields but no armor or greaves except for the elite. They used Negau helmets, Pot helmets with a rim, wicker helmets with metal plates also called disc and stud helmets and adopted the Ancient Greek "Illyrian" type helmet. Overall, they functioned as a military variant of the peltasts. They used short spears, single-handed axes that could be hurled, and swords. They used only open faced helmets and they resembled Celtic equipment of the Hallstatt culture to a great degree.
From an organizational standpoint, the Illyrians were not a united tribal force and thus fought with a distinct lack of real military coordination. Their fighting techniques seemed to rely heavily on individual accomplishments rather than on coordinated units like the Greek phalanx or the Roman legion. In 359 BC, King Perdiccas III of Macedon was killed by attacking Illyrians in his failed attempt to reconquer Upper Macedonia. In 358 BC, however, Philip II of Macedon, the father of Alexander the Great, utterly crushed the Illyrians and assumed control of their territory as far as Lake Ohrid.
The Illyrians fought against many ancient peoples, but they ultimately fell to the Romans after the Illyrian Wars and failed to breakaway from the Roman Empire during the Great Illyrian Revolt. Aside from being conquered by the Romans, the Illyrians were also Romanized."
Here's a link with a list of Illyrian tribes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Illyrian_tribes
I believe the biggest tribe (or at least one of the biggest) were the Taulanti (Taulantioi in Greek). They were also probably the most Hellenized, since they had close contact with the Greeks. Glaucias also belonged to the Taulanti tribe.
If you want to start a game with them, I suggest you move a faction to the region of Illyria Hellenike with the capital city of Epidamnos. From there you can build up your strength. Possible targets of conquests would be: The rest if Illyria, bit to the north, Epirus, southern Italy. The rest is up to you.
The Illyrian troops in EB are: Illyrioi Paraktioi (Illyrian Coastal Levies), Illyrioi Thureophoroi (Illyrian Spearmen) and Illyrioi Hippeis (Illyrian Light Cavalry). Here's a link to their pictures and descriptions on EB's sire:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...5.html#illyria
Apart from those, you can use: Akontistai, Sphendonetai, Toxotai, Hoplitai Haploi and Hoplitai as well. Those seam reasonable enough to include as "factional" troops.
That's all, hope this was helpful.
Maion
Don't mention it buddy, always happy to help...
Maion
He probably sharted his pants upon seeing the massive text wall and is still too much in awe to reply. :smash:
I'm currently toying around with a Illyrian AAR. Have some fragments written, but nothing substantial yet. Thanks for posting all this information, I'm sure it will prove useful.
Well, I was being sarcastic to be honest :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Good. Finally I'll see an Illyrian AAR. I hope it doesn't contain fragments of Albanian pseudo-nationalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkeleyBoi
Maion
How are Albanians Illyrians? I have always wondered that. They act like they are. Aren't Albanians slavic?
First of all, my apologies to Maion for not replying earlier (I'm on my knees man:shame:). I have been busy (in final exams). I meant to reply yesterday, but my mind was elsewhere that I totally forgot.
Now for the information you gave me,
:jawdrop:
SWEET MOTHER OF JESUS...
For some reason I'm yet to discover, I had a strange feeling that you would be the first to reply, and "oh my", what a reply. The information that you gave me was just what I was looking for. Has if you read my mind :laugh4: . I passed all day thinking on an illyrian adventure, my mind was flowing with ideas (if I don't pass the exams, Maion, I'm blaming you :laugh4:). So much detail, its all one needs to start an Illyrian AAR.
Now for what I'm going to do with it, I'm still thinking. Your proposal of doing an Illyrian AAR, was something that caught my attention. I have never done one before("OH really?:brood: No SH**"), so I would have to read some guides about how to do one. But to tell you the truth, when I play, I always do some kind of role playing, so the thought of making an AAR, made me very exited. But first I have to take care of some things outside EB, so, maybe, I would start writing in Autumn.
Maion, once again, thank you very much.
I will be replying soon about this subject...
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuh:idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Almost
Oh please, do that. I would like to read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerkeleyBoi
Nope, they aren't Slavic AFAIK. There are theories that have them being related to ancient Illyrians, but there no solid evidence that proves that point. But they're certainly not Slavic AFAIK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaust the Moor
No problem, I guessed you were busy and just wrote that sarcastic post to see if anyone was willing to "enrich" the thread and give some additional information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiuga
As for the AAR itself, there's a good guide on fictional writing and you could always draw inspiration on on other AARs. The very fact that you chose the Illyrians, who are a very mysterious people as little is known of them, gives you the possibility to improvise to some degree. And don't forget the most important incredient; Roleplay.
Bardyllis, Teuta and Glaucias are bright examples of the potential the Illyrians had as a nation. They may not have been as advanced technologically and military as, say, the Greeks and Romans, but they were flexible enough to adapt to changes and absorb certain elements from powerful neighbours. The latter is brilliantly shown with the Illyrian tribes (like the Taulanti) close to Epirus, who adopted Greek names, applied Greek architecture to their cities and even adopted Greek customs.
You could use that to your favour, RPing a "new" Kingdom after subduing Greece. A Kingdom of heavy Greek influence, but with clear fierce Illyrian nature and distinct military system. Flexible tribal infantry can be "transformed" into heavier counterparts (maybe considering the fact of including the Thorakitai or some heavier hoplite units), due to the steady shift from a mountainous and heavily forested regional power to Kingdom based on an ancient land and an exploision of contact with knowledge and extensive trading with new peoples.
This whole talking is making me excited as we speak :smash: I'd do the Illyrian project myself, but I'm enjoying my vacations now plus I'm also playing a Makedonian campaign as we speak and taking notes for a future AAR.
EDIT: Final exams sounds like music to my ears. Last school year or just finished another University/Technical School/College year? In any way, congrats for finishing. And I hope I didn't distract you too much from your studies :sweatdrop:
Maion
Its my first year in University, I still have more 3/4 years to go. Don't worry its going very well, but thanks for the support :beam:
I would be very happy if after this, some Illyian ARR's were born. It would be great. And if Maion writes one, I won't miss one bit of it :2thumbsup:
Yours truly,
Raiuga
Albanian nationalism? Nope, none of that. But there will be pirates. Lots of pirates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
Cool, I'm in the same situation as you. Just finished my first year and still 3 to go (if all goes well as now). And I have, in fact, written an AAR. It's included in a link under my signature. Unless you mean an Illyrian one, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiuga
Maion
Yup...I'm already reading that one. Good stuff :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
nice multitasking:clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
Thanks, it was an experiment ot be honest. Worked out quite well, but in the end it needs tons of organization as my Kingdom turned into an Empire. Not to mention I had just gotten into University, which already drained a lot of my time. Oh, and then there was the CTD that killed it for good :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiuga
Well, my vacations are much quieter than you may think. I work and I (sometimes) play EB, apart from going to the beach and out for a nightwalk.Quote:
Originally Posted by the man with no name
Maion
Speaking of vacation, i just got back from vacation in Cannon Beach, Oregon and then Alaska. It was cold 2, especially the water at Cannon Beach. Couldn't go out more than ankle depth without having to go back cuz the water was so cold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
And also what i thought was funny about ur multitasking is that you said "I'm playing it as we speak"
When you were actually posting on this thread.
OK, my bad. I meant I have an ongoing campaign. I haven't touched it for a week or so to be honest, as I have to take notes which bores me to death...
Oh, and you should come over to Greece man. It's 34 degrees Celcius, the sea's boiling hot.
Maion
Some of mmy family wants to go to greece next year. The others, including me (no offense), want to go back to bueatiful Emerald Isle, one of North Carolina's barrier islands. I'm interested in going to greece 2 yrs. from now to see, as my mom says "all those battles you guys watch TV about"
i.e. the battle of Marathon and many more. Who knows i might end up being a town away from you. My brother and i want to go to greece or so i think. One of my family is on this forum. Maybe you can guess who he is.
You could always come over to Paros (my parents' place). We have a hotel, so you won't have to worry about finding a place to stay.
And is your relative you're speaking of everyone? :tongue:
Maion
Yes, the EB community is all one big family :wink2:. We may not be going becauser there are alot of smokers in greece. jk. Btw are u making that as a honest proposal? Or a joke. I'm guessing it's the latter. If it is i will bribe you: I will join the Romaioktonoi. :clown:
Honest, and there's a new law now against smoking in public places.
Maion
super de duper. Now where have we hears that before?:clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
Not everyone in balkan is slavic my friend.