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After a bunch of multiplayer matches, I've realized that I like using phalanxes almost as much as legionaires. I've been thinking of playing a faction that uses phalanxes (so far, I've only played the Romans, Getai, and Pahlava:sweatdrop:) but there's so many of them. Which one do you like the best?:smash:
Epeiros.:yes:
fatherland makedonia
Makedonia, of course. You get a cool blend of Hellenic and Western units, as well as getting access to Thracian elite rhompheia weilding killers.
Best of all, you be to kill off the Roman swine!
And you can get the satisfaction that can only be attained by debunking myths of Spartan invincibility. Farewell 300!
Julius is right. ecxept what he said about spartans, but oh well Maks rock, seriously Thracian peltasts and others plus some phalanxes (god bless Hysterois) is a pretty KICK ASS army. I alomost forget the Cavalry.
Personally, Epeiros is my favorite. Plenty of epic battles and fast expansion at the beginning, Phryrus as your king, elephants of course, and a nice Thracian AOR (Although Makedonia has that too, I think?) as well as an excellent starting location that provides for an interesting campaign. They also have more leeway on where you can go next, especially with regards to going west. (If I recall correctly, Makedonia needs to leave Rome alive so they can get March of Time?)
It's an excellent campaign, especially for one who likes to blitz. Elephants are fun, you can fight a large variety of enemies (Makedonian phalanxes, Konion Hellion's hoplites, Arche Seleukeia's Greco-Persian AI spam, the various "barbarian" units of the Thracian rebels and the Aedui of northern Italy, and of course Rome and its armies.) as you fulfill your reasonable victory conditions. Plenty of room for diplomacy, too, you do not HAVE to kill everyone in your way.
It seems Epeiros and Macedonia are the favorites so far. Their unit rosters seem really similar except the Epeiros can recruit Elephants, right?
Pontus. For the sheer exotic feeling, if nothing else.
Makedonia of course.
I wouldn't exactly call Pontos a phalanx based faction, though. More like a Persian-styled faction that has a couple phalanxes in its roster. Unlike,say Epeiros or Makedonia, one would not think of Pontos as being a faction that has an army that has to rely on phalanxes.
And Pontos really is a challenge, situated as it is on top of Arche Seleukeia. Make sure you are up to that challenge....I certainly found it far, far harder than Romani or Pahlava, don't know a thing about Getai. If you just want a traditional game with a faction that has phalanxes, Epeiros or Makedonia would probably be a better choice. If you want a totally different, very hard game, go with Pontos.
Epeiros and Makedonia are similar enough. Their early game is pretty different, which is due mostly to the famous elephants that allow for one-turn sieges as Epeiros. Makedonia's size doesn't really count for too much; I've looked at the AI Epeiros starting armies, and they look tough. Two elephant units, and plenty of phalanxes, if I recall correctly. Makedonia AI starting armies seem weaker. Especially because they sometimes end up fighting the Konion Hellion. (Not that I'd know how hard AI Epeiros is, I haven't actually played Makedonia). It's your choice when it comes to those two factions.
Epeiros, Epirote Heavy Cavalry is GOD: they have the punch of Hetairoi with the speed of Illyrioi Hippeis. More often than not all that super heavy cavalry is too slow and gets tired too quickly, which is lame, but as Epeiros you have probably the most maneuverable shock cavalry in the world. Even if they are still likely to underperform in 1 vs. 1 combat vs. catanks, they can quickly run away and strike at will. And they take forever to get tired too, increasing their longterm battle efficiency.
Otherwise, plenty of Illyrian and Thracian units to use, just like Makedonia. Since you have to conquer Makedonia at the start, your mid-game phalanx roster will probably not be very distinct from them. You can only recruit Pezhetairoi in Makedonian provinces at the start, but at least you get Elephantes Indikoi right off Ambrakia with a better MIC. And from the start, you also have much superior light cavalry forces ranging from Hippeis Tarantinoi to Illyrioi Hippeis, while still having access to the powerful Successor medium cavalry and heavy infantry roster.
Overall, Epeiros is a bit indistinct from Makedonia on the military composition - They have a bit of a local touch to their troops, but the distinctions are less than the similarities. On expansion, you can choose a much wider expansion based on the Mediterranean, and you also don't get much from "March of Time", so you're better off putting the Romaioi scum to death. That's what I plan to follow next in my campaign - with Italia in your hands, you'll be so wealthy that even the Seleukids will pose no problem.
]Quote:
Originally Posted by retep219
You're right about the Epeiros starting with stronger armies, especially the elephants and calvary units. What about late game? Which is more fun?
Unless Baktria is in, I have to say Makedonia. Great units (best phalanxes on average, good cavalry and excellent specialist troops), badass colour theme, plus their position on the map enables them to fight any other faction should the need arise.
Definitely Eperios. It is in my sig too :2thumbsup:. Their location and flavour is much to my liking. They are an underdog faction which has no history of empires/great victories (Maks, KH) nor an empire in 272 BC, unlike the Ptolies and AS. I do not know why I cannot stand Makedonia, but for some reason, I simply cannot. Perhaps it is because of my urge to create very alternate history. Makedonians already had their day. I do not know, but for some reason, I strongly disliked and still avoid Makedonians.
Baktria is another good choice, but I loathe their location. Too empty, too little history (that I know of) in the Baktrian vicinity, too unfamiliar in general, too many archers and nomads, and too little variety in general. Same meaningless city, never-ending steppe/mountains, lack of defining geographical locations/features. And really, my main grievance with Baktria is that it is on the edge of the map, where the only real solution is endless AS grind with intermittent nomad walloping. Not like the exciting and varied battles of the Mediterranean.
Northern Mediterranian is my favourite, preferably in the centre, such as the Romani and Eperios. Pontus is meh, because of its Asiatic flavour (I do not like Eastern factions) and mostly the AS grind.
The part with "too little variety" in your statement on Baktria is really odd.
Epeiros sucks in the empire phase, because its government-types are not the best. They are too barbarian. They don't have the perfect mix of Hellen culture, ferocious strength and royal appeal like Makedonia. :beam:
Sorry, I should have elaborated. What I meant was that there is too little variety in the enemies Baktria faces, the directions of its conquest (only west), the settlements (one meaningless AS town after another with same Pantodapoi Spearmen/Phalanx and archer spam), lack of defining geographical features (Mediterranean Sea with all its affiliate bodies of salt-water or even the Atlantic for example) - for Batria it is endless deserts, steppes, with a bit of mountains sprinkled in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
And anyway, most of the other variety problems I have already mentioned. Baktria is a splendid nation in a lousy place. Unlike the hyper-central locations of Eperios, Makedonians, Koinon Hellenon, and even the Romani.
Precisely why I like them. They are the ideal mix of "barbarian" and Hellenic in my personal opinion. Makedonia has strayed far from its wild roots, and after Alexandros and subsequent Diadochi, it is just another one of the many, with very little of its past days of a tribal culture. Eperios still retains the spirit of the fierce barbarian warriors, it is not yet corrupted with the "comforts" of "civilisation".Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
Just as the Aetolian and Achaean Leagues were when Romans arrived at Greece after the Second Punic War. Still retaining their fighting spirit, unlike the somewhat spoiled Makedonians and thrice more decadent Greeks, who all but abandoned their citizen militias in favour of mercenaries, the Qarthadastim way - which leads to a predictable ending of a loss. Even Hannibal knew this, which is why he chose to rely on regional indigenous recruits, mainly the Iberians, not independent mercenaries.
kh cause soon enough you will discover the marvellous throkithai :smash:
O Fatherland of Glory,
Vergina sun shines bright!
Sons of Alexandros,
All Hail Makedonia!!!
Truth in Father Makedonia,
Home of Megas Alexandros!
Glorious shine of the Vergina Sun!
All Hail Makedonia!!!
Actually, Epeirote government is quite good. Better than the Satrapeia-Hemi-Autonomos and its whooping public order penalties at level three, while at level II the bonuses fairly outweigh the public order malus. If anything all Epeirote governments provide better benefits than their Successor counterparts, regardless of the first time appearances.Quote:
Epeiros sucks in the empire phase, because its government-types are not the best. They are too barbarian. They don't have the perfect mix of Hellen culture, ferocious strength and royal appeal like Makedonia.
"Royal appeal", I guess no one beats Pyrrhus here ;~p. Otherwise, the Epeirotes are a fairly "plain" Hellenic faction, which makes your remark about "barbarism" a bit far off, unless it's just plain old Athenian bias :clown:.
The Epeirotes are the only "civilized" faction which can recruit Drapanai. If that doesn't make you kinda barbaric, I don't know what does.
Meh, I prefer my good ol' Roman ones. Although the Hellenic experience bonus the governments offer is quite nice, much better than what the Romans have... At the same time, without that experience bonus, the Ptolies/AS governments are crap IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name
Pontos for me, because of the wide variety on the unit roster next to the phalanx units. (Galatian naked dudes and scythed chariots do nice insta routs together.)
But if I have to stick at a hardcore phalanx based faction, then it's Makedonia. Hysteroi Pezhetairoi (sp?) is just the best phalanx unit in the game, since they are much cheaper than the elites, yet they have almost the same stats. Also their high end units belong to the bests of the game.
as some others have said: i think pontos would be a nice choice too, it might not exactly be a phalanks based nation, but i sure used alot of them when fighting the seleucids, simple because it was the only efficient way to hold their pahalanks in check while i killed the rest of the army with slingers/fm's.
it' a pretty hard campaign, but you get acces to the galatian unit's if you're fast, and a bit later once you've taken the bosporus you can get some neat heavy archers too back you up :b
I would say Koinon Hellenon. True most of their units (almost all) are hoplites fighting in phalanx formation but they are more flexible then phalanxes with sarissas and dont need to depend on the ground they fight on. Not as wunerable when it comes to flank attacks i would say cause you can easy switch them around.
Also a great faction if you like infantry as i do. Thorakitai Hoplitai and Epilektoi Hoplitai are yummy to play with :2thumbsup:
If they want to get the reformed Pezhetairoi, yes. But Macedon's unit roster is excellent even without those.Quote:
Originally Posted by retep219
That's a somewhat simplistic view, although it was shared by many classical writers. Several Greek city states (including Athens and Corinth) still relied partly on citizen militias: they were defeated all the same. The most reliable infantry formations in Carthaginian armies, including those of Hannibal, where the Libyan mercenaries. I am also unsure why Hannibal's Iberians do not qualify as mercenaries. They certainly had no more reason to fight for Carthage than did the Libyans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/f...nner_04bak.jpg
I love the idea of a Central-Asian melting-pot of a Hellenistic empire, blending Hellenistic, Persian, Indian and Chinese culture, being the masters of the Silk Road, controlling the trade between China and the Mediterranean, and of course, they've got such a great versatility when it comes to units available - light infantry, skirmishers, archers, horse archers, medium infantry, phalanxes, cavalry, heavy infantry, phalanxes, archers, cavalry, armoured horse archers, cataphracts, elephants! Makedonian/Hellenic, Persian, Baktrian, nomad and Indian troops! What do they not have?!
(... An elite phalanx. *sulk*)
The units are very beautiful too (althouh their Thureophoroi and Thorakitai are a bit bland).
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...taphraktoi.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._daha_baex.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ezhetairoi.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...anvare_pay.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...eek_nobles.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._peltastai.gif
The biggest problem, as many have mentioned, is their starting location. Surrounded on three sides by Arche Seleukeia, who's bound to betray you no matter the state of their collapsing empire (if you do not betray you masters yourself, that is), and after that, the Grind begins.
Well I would say Arche Seleukeia and Makedonia in First and Epeiros at Second place.
Reasons:
Arche Seleukeia: (I wonder why nobody has choosen them so far) A large empire at the brink of demise with a wide variation of troops and the potential to become the empire of alexandros reborn (or even better). The reforms are a pain in the back, but atleats you don't need to depend on the MOT. A huge scale of enemies: Nomads in the east:skull:, traiterous yellow fever hordes in the south-west:furious3:, true Makednos in the west:sweatdrop:, galatians in the middle of Asia Minor pluss the upstart persianized kingdoms in the northern mountains. Beat these however and you can have your own "Roman empire of the east" and west if you choose to go that way (Type I goverments in Pella, Baktria, and Alexandria and Mesopotamia:2thumbsup:). First class units of all kind from India all the way to Hellas. Any kind of army you can think of. What else do you need:beam:
Makedonia: as said by many so far, good troops, good place, great history, lack Thorakitai, depend on MOT and the Elite is in Hellas only. Wonderfull none the less:2thumbsup:
Epeiros: a little barbarian-like but that is there strength - recruitment also quite limited, but still good:yes: Elite cavalry is fantastic, but limited aswell. What makes them really atractive are: - Phyrros and his son:smash:, - don't need MOT and can kill of the Romani so others won't get it either (insert evil :laugh4::laugh4:)
The Arche: there armies may not always be pike-based because of the sheer amount of regional units, but as said: they can train (and pay for) any army you desire. Not only are they facing very different enemies, but they also get to fight them on very different terrain (sandy deserts, stone deserts, steppe lowlands and high mountains, the very distinctive terrain in Asia Minor,...). How many factions experience this in the early game? And as most important feature: they can build truly expensive units, artillery and ships, which means you'll never run out of options to throw away your vast funds.
Although when it comes to Arche Seleukeia, you have to be prepared for, once again, a rather unique faction. Seleukeia is so big that one has to be prepared to mantain a gigantic, overstreched empire from turn 1 and fight a number of foes that is high enough that it is usually kept for the late game in any other faction. A player of Arche Seleukeia has to be ready for a three-front war from the get-go.(Against Ptolomaioi in the Levant, against Pahlava and maybe Baktria in the East, and against various factions in Anatolia.) If you win, of course, you are pretty much set for the game. But victories, especially against the Pahlava and their deadly Horse Archers, will be hard to come by if you decide to use phalanxes. Seleukeia is, in some regards, a phalanx-based faction, especially in the West where it fights similar foes. It has one of the better elite phalanxes, the Silver-Shielded Argyraspides, with a massive AOR (well...relative to other elites), as well as much choice for the "line" phalanxes. But it cannnot rely on phalanxes to help fulfill its eastern victory conditions, and it will present a unique challenge for the player. Choose Seleukeia if you like elaborate, multi-front wars and sophisticated micro-management.Quote:
Originally Posted by HunGeneral
as favorite Phalanx based faction I would choose Makedonia for all the reasons mentioned plus the playercolor is black :D. second would be bactria with the most wide spread recruitment roster. still I rather play with KH as I'm not awfully good at makedonian style phalanx warfare, I always preffered good ole hoplite battles.
oh and the AS is the smallest problem the bactrians have! I had to abandon my campaign because the saka rauka Invaded my homeland with Horse archers.