Can we have the morale of every single unit independently determined?

Since every unit has its own experience and moral level, so why must we let a whole stack army's morale solely determined by the general which leads them?Every unit should have its tradition, its honors and dishonors, etc.
If some troop just sustained a humiliating defeat, their experience should not suffer much but their morale must go down drastically so they cannot be on their mettle to fight bravely again in some time. For example, all Roman troops who survived Cannae were sent to distant provinces for some trivial jobs, never got a chance to fight any serious battle again.
And if you let your troops rest too long, especially in some notoriously luxurious cities, they will become lazy and soft, as Hannibal found out when he led his once toughest-in-the-world army out of Capua after a winter's rest, "I still remember these armors, but I can't recognize those men in them.", I believe he said something like this.:laugh4:

we can determine morale through the traits of the general, however this cannot be done for each individual unit. Hardcoded.

Foot

But aren't there many temples which can increase the morale of troops trained there?
So I think even if they're of the same type, two units, e.g. two triarii could have different morale, isn't it so?

I understand the morale bonus from buildings is bugged in R:TW. Not sure if it's even been implemented in M2:TW. Anyway, morale is a tricky thing to model. A humiliating defeat could break the morale of a unit, or make them all the more determined to redeem themselves.

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Originally Posted by Julianus

But aren't there many temples which can increase the morale of troops trained there?
So I think even if they're of the same type, two units, e.g. two triarii could have different morale, isn't it so?

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As Ludens said, this is broken, and also even if it worked it would be extremely limited. As far as I am aware if it worked it would simply boost the morale of all friendly troops fighting in that province.

Morale is assigned to a unit as a stat, and can be depleted during a battle, eventually leading to a rout. However, it cannot be changed during a campaign. For example if a unit suffered particularly horrific losses, they would not then have reduced morale in the next battle. The engine just doesn't work like that.

Foot

Well yes, morale is tricky and rather unpredictable, but even treating it randomly will be better than neglecting it thoroughly, maybe a troop's morale will be utterly broken by a defeat, or they may burn for revenge, either is much more acceptable than they act as nothing has happened at all.
IMHO it's a pity if we can't represent this.

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Originally Posted by Julianus

Well yes, morale is tricky and rather unpredictable, but even treating it randomly will be better than neglecting it thoroughly, maybe a troop's morale will be utterly broken by a defeat, or they may burn for revenge, either is much more acceptable than they act as nothing has happened at all.
IMHO it's a pity if we can't represent this.

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We already have traits for generals who lose battles or win battles that effect morale. We cannot do the same for individual units. End of story. Hardcoded.

Foot

Yall just got Trampled by DA FOOT!

I remember when Shogun was being marketed as having individual morale, I always wondered why nobody ever mentioned the fact that this feature does not exist

It does have individual morale except everyone in the group has the same individual morale...

Perhaps there needs to be a "WE CANNOT DO THIS BECAUSE ITS HARDCODED!" or "PLEASE STOP ASKING THESE QUESTIONS!" sticky thread.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

Yall just got Trampled by DA FOOT!

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Thanks you AS for bringing this back.

And I agree with munky, probably should be a stickied list of various topics elaborated upon and explained to it's fullest. That way, instead of going over "It's hardcoded." "But..." "It's hardcoded." over and over again, we can just point to the list which explains why we can't do anything about it accurately.

Or, you know, put them in the FAQ and hope people will look at it first.

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Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

Or, you know, put them in the FAQ and hope people will look at it first.

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Unfortunately, the level of intelligence for the average person is relatively low. This may have a direct result on the probability of people actually bothering to read the FAQ.

That and the fact that many of us are lazy.

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Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

Or, you know, put them in the FAQ and hope people will look at it first.

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But they are not Frequently Asked. Every question that ends up being answered with "It's hardcoded." is different then the rest because so much is hardcoded. It would be easier just to make a sticky titled: "Things That Are Hardcoded (AKA cannot be changed/tooled with)" and make a clear list of some sort.

Amount of time town can last while under seige
Morale for troops (specifically these certain conditions)
etc...

Are you going to put each of those in the FAQ with all of them taking space and having the same identical answer?

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

But they are not Frequently Asked. Every question that ends up being answered with "It's hardcoded." is different then the rest because so much is hardcoded. It would be easier just to make a sticky titled: "Things That Are Hardcoded (AKA cannot be changed/tooled with)" and make a clear list of some sort.

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Honestly, there's so many countless, ugly hardcodes that, for simplicity's sake (and for the forum's morale, if nothing else), the thread should be, "Things That Aren't Hardcoded."

Those lists already exist. You're just looking in the wrong (sub-)forum.

Here some more hardcoded stuff: the size of the single character in a CUF file cannot be larger than 255px * 255px. The total number of characters in a CUF file cannot be larger than 65535. The size of a CUF file cannot be smaller than 128KB + 39B. The size of a CUF file cannot be larger than 4GB + 256KB + 36B.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Those lists already exist. You're just looking in the wrong (sub-)forum.

Here some more hardcoded stuff: the size of the single character in a CUF file cannot be larger than 255px * 255px. The total number of characters in a CUF file cannot be larger than 65535. The size of a CUF file cannot be smaller than 128KB + 39B. The size of a CUF file cannot be larger than 4GB + 256KB + 36B.

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You oughta put a link to that thread in the FAQ, bro.

A thread, nay an entire forum devoted to what is (not) possible.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

A thread, nay an entire forum devoted to what is (not) possible.

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So your suggestion for when someone has a technical question is to learn how to mod M2TW first before asking it?

A rough sentence, TA.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

So your suggestion for when someone has a technical question is to learn how to mod M2TW first before asking it?

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No. You are reading too much into this.

But basically: it seemed to me as if people wanted ‘us’ (EB team) to compile a list of stuff that's ‘hardcoded’ to which my response would be to look that up yourself. I prefer modding to compiling a list of trivia; but you are more than welcome to step in and do the work yourself. More capable people than me have already provided us (read: you, 'cause I am not going to do it) with plenty of stuff to compile if anybody wants to.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

No. You are reading too much into this.

But basically: it seemed to me as if people wanted ‘us’ (EB team) to compile a list of stuff that's ‘hardcoded’ to which my response would be to look that up yourself. I prefer modding to compiling a list of trivia; but you are more than welcome to step in and do the work yourself. More capable people than me have already provided us (read: you, 'cause I am not going to do it) with plenty of stuff to compile if anybody wants to.

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If I do that and post it here, will it get stickied?

Will I get a cookie? :juggle2: Perhaps: that depends on how good/useful your thread is in the opinion of the forum moderators. The more likely scenario is that it'll be a link in the Important Information for Forum Users thread; just like how the EB 1 installation guide is a link: generally the lists of stickies is kept to a minimum.

Well, I will do it if it means I get immortalized as a link in a stickied thread. Then even when I abandon this forum, people will still see my name when they follow the link to my post to learn what can't be changed in EB2.

Perhaps you should password protect the forums and make the user read a giant list of what not to ask beforehand that has the forum password embedded inside the text somewhere.

:)

Perhaps you should just read other parts of the forum. :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Those lists already exist. You're just looking in the wrong (sub-)forum.

Here some more hardcoded stuff: the size of the single character in a CUF file cannot be larger than 255px * 255px. The total number of characters in a CUF file cannot be larger than 65535. The size of a CUF file cannot be smaller than 128KB + 39B. The size of a CUF file cannot be larger than 4GB + 256KB + 36B.

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Someone's been busy making fonts it would seem, can't wait to see'em.:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

And I agree with munky, probably should be a stickied list of various topics elaborated upon and explained to it's fullest. That way, instead of going over "It's hardcoded." "But..." "It's hardcoded." over and over again, we can just point to the list which explains why we can't do anything about it accurately.

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A list of things that can't be done with the M2:TW engine is going to be a lot longer than a list of things that can. Not that I want to keep you from making one, just saying ~;) . The current lists of hardcodes focus mostly on how many entries the data files can hold. These are not relevant to newbies, apart from the faction, culture, religion and unit limits. For example, they don't mention how many weapons a unit can have, since that should be obvious to anyone who has worked with the data files. So including these lists won't prevent people from asking for, say, five different weapons on a legionary (gladius, light pilum, heavy pilum, anti-cav pilum and pugio).

As a good rule of the thumb: it is not possible to add new functions or new interface elements (buttons, in other words) to the game. The main exception is the script: this does allow for new functions. However, the script is slow, clunky and almost blind, so it is no magical bullet, and even here the available scripting commands limit what can be done.