Has the ETW horse bolted

I know alot of guys are excited about the new patches and DLC, and are getting back into the game.

I thought about playing again and then realized I couldnt be bothered starting another long tedious campaign that I would get bored of and not finished.

Im bored with empires

Im bored with fighting 1000's of battles that have little or no context

Im bored with the predictable moves of my AI opponent

Im bored with the sameness and clonelike armies of all the nations - playing one nation feels the same as playing any other.

What about you - is your interest in playing ETW reinvigorated or are the patches etc too little too late and trying to play ETW is like flogging a dead horse?

Happens with R:TW, Happens with M2:TW. Happens with every game.

Play a different one for a while.

thing is I havent BEEN playing it for a long while

I recently went back to finish grinding through the last 10 turns of my Prussian Campaign

now Im like start a new Campaign - why

My whole experience with ETW angered me so much that it actually made me hate the game but the praise for this new patch was so great around here I just had to give it a try. I must say I'm not disappointed.

The patches have helped a lot, but I still find a lot of the battles to be boring. The AI just barricades its units inside the buildings. There is no strategy to the battles because you don't get any choice on how to control the battle. Just right click with your troops or artillery and wait until the victory screen pops up. Sure, the AI doesn't put all their units in buildings but half or more of their army.

Yep bolted 2 months ago.

Mods, guys. Mods are where it's at. I suggest Imperial Splendour. I'm having a blast. They make every faction unique and different, requiring at least marginal changes to play style between culturally similar factions (The UK, France) and major changes in tactics between different ones (Austria and the Ottoman Empire).

It's what ETW really should have been.

Well after 1.3 and finishing the RTI and reading the boards I stopped. When I saw what was happening I didn't even get to try 1.4 when 1.5 was out. Its got me playing I picked up an Austrian Campaign. The seiges are off still with some AI moves on the battlefield but the campaign was going well.

I was not seeing the DoW I was entering diplomacy the Ottomans were becoming friendly and the war with the Venice and Genoa stayed within our theatre no one else joined and the neighbours to the north are fighting each other. There was even decent land invasions by the Venetians to retake Rome.

I went up to 1717 and was enjoying myself. There are quirks but it was keping me entertained and that's why I bought the game. I just wish it didn't take so long. :no:

I thinking modding is the way to improve the game to different people's taste because there only so much CA will do. I haven't tried any mods yet but I think if they are stable with 1.5 I may go that route like MTW 2.

Well, sorta bolted. It's hard to still love ETW, after all the disappointment.
The latest patches actually did a lot to help it on it's way, but it still is a long road to go, and I'm getting kind of jaded. Basically, the longer it takes, the less impressed I'm getting even if it were quite good.

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Originally Posted by Elmar Bijlsma

Well, sorta bolted. It's hard to still love ETW, after all the disappointment.
The latest patches actually did a lot to help it on it's way, but it still is a long road to go, and I'm getting kind of jaded. Basically, the longer it takes, the less impressed I'm getting even if it were quite good.

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Same here.

Actually, after patch 1.4 Empire is playable and some kind of fun. But after waiting for over half a year to get to that point, i just cannot really get up and say "okay, let's forget about the past". I tried and i started a new campaign, but that only showed that there is still much work to do, especially on the AI part. Okay, Rome and Medieval 2 weren't perfect too, but at least they were fun. In Empire, the battles play all the same. You don't get many different units, even the enemy has almost the same units like you most of the time. And then it's just shoot and flank and repeat until you surround the enemy and he routs. I lost more battles in Medieval 2, or at least the battles were more challenging when the enemy outnumbers you. Now i haven't had big problems against enemy armies double the size of my army, and thats on hard difficulty... :(
Then diplomacy still isn't that good as it should be. It weren't in medieval 2 vanilla (with Lusteds CAI it is!), but it didn't matter that much. In Empire diplomacy is more important, still it works the way it did in medieval 2. Because of the town system it greatly hurts my economy if i'm at war with all my neighbors who then come pillaging all over my lands. And with the biiig importance of trade, it makes it even more difficult, since everyone who hates me comes raiding my traderoutes and i simply cannot afford a navy that big to secure all my routes. In M2TW, being at war with half the world just wasn't that much of a problem. :(

It's these points, the "history" of empire after release and some more things that somehow keep me from loving this game, even if it has great potential and isn't all that bad after 1.4. :thumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by Lord Yunson

Im bored with fighting 1000's of battles that have little or no context

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This is a consequence of the campaign map style that was first introduced in RTW - it's unavoidable in the current model.

:bow:

bolted. I tried 2 new campaigns.
1. i lost as sweden due to unprovoked and unreasonable agression from Britain invading my homelands. interesting, however, completely sensless move as I was friendly with Britain and we had common enemies.
2. as Austria I keep defeating stack after stack of Polish, Ottoman and Prussian armies. I captured capital of Prussia and was besieging Warsaw. Ottomans lost 2 regions and I cannot get peace with either even giving away all my war gains...

I think I will give it a try later, not sure when I am able to forget the frustration, especially regarding the second campaign.

I'm not quite as obsessed with ETW as I used to be with RTW, but I think that's because there are some other good games around these days. At the moment for the first time in years I spend less time on Total War than a certain game involving shooting mutants with a leaf blower. :smash:

But it's still brilliant! A bit repetitive maybe when you play for hours every day for months on end. Big surprise. Every tweak and tinker changes things sometimes in ways you like and sometimes irritates the bejasus out of one (errm chainshot ubersloops sinking 3rd rates with ease?).

It's hard to please all of the people all of the time, and it's damn hard for every campaign to satisfy all your desires and expectations. Other nations won't just sit still and wait for you to take over the world with impunity. For me it's a race for technology and a strong economy so you can afford to mount the unstoppable offensives your small nation dreams of. Your neighbours should try and stop you if they think they have an advantage, which they do have at the outset. Over time the better management skills of a human will lead to victory, unless they overwhelm you before you are too strong, or attack your weak flank whilst you are occupied elsewhere. Yeah its a pain in the boom when an annoying upstart minor nation DOWs unexpectedly but no-one said taking over the world was supposed to be easy. :juggle2:

All told the game has many superb features not found in any other. What annoyed me most was when legions of small armies kept invading to burn farms etc. which could have united and taken the whole province instead. 'Taking whole' as Sun Tzu said. That lead to numerous tedious one-sided skirmishes which did get boring. Like the annoying spawning rebels in RTW. After 1.5 I have not seen that yet so I live in hope that is a thing of the past.

I recommend giving it another chance. Do a bit of whispering if necessary, or give it a lump of sugar. But if you try to ride it for 12 hours every day the poor thing will get a bit tired.

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Originally Posted by Lord Yunson

thing is I havent BEEN playing it for a long while

I recently went back to finish grinding through the last 10 turns of my Prussian Campaign

now Im like start a new Campaign - why

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Try one of the major mods. Imperial Splendor will give you a completely different feel about the game. You'll also get more unit variety and differentiation across nations.

Ladies & Gentlemen,

If you are so bold as to start on H or VH in this version of the game be aware that the CAI is going to be very mean. There is little reasoning with the factions, you can get peace but it is not simple.

If the level of aggression is too much for you try the game on an easier setting until you can cope with what they are throwing at you.

I know in the past everyone played on VH/VH but this is a different beast. Even on the easier settings you should not expect for everything to be easy. You will likely not get protectorates for pocket change. You will not get France to hand over all its North American possessions if you offer to give them Paris back. You will have to kill off the Pirates before you are safe in any trade theater. You will need a good fleet to protect your merchantmen, and so on.

The BAI is improved, not perfect but improved. The AI is back to attacking from two sides at once with reinforcements. It set it up that way. Everything seems improved to some degree.

They have given you what you asked for and it seems stable but has still a few glitches in places with menus and whatnot.

It seems to be a challenge at what ever level you chose and it is a different sort of game at each difficulty level.

There are a few things that happen too regularly. For instance, the Iroquois will go to war with the 13 Colonies on the first turn. The UP will declare war on Spain each time, and a few others.

The old guides won’t do you much good in this version and I have not seen any faction that is a cake walk.

Too right, I got destroyed on VH/VH as GB in this latest patch where as previously it was quite easy.

I know that normal mode is for wusses, but people should consider it sometime. It makes the campaign AI much more reasonable and doesn't seem to have a lot of effect on the strategic AI. I've had factions accept reasonable peace terms, very few unprovoked declarations of war from friendly nations, and they've even apparently got rid of the 'scripted' DoW's from nations like Georgia.

I wondered about the normal mode for a campaign; it may not appear challenging but you will have a reasonable game with AI diplomacy. Keeping the difficulty on the battle level higher may give you a better gaming experience overall.

Agreed. They might be finally reducing the number of bugs and issues but their reputation has hit a new low with the E:TW. It is not interesting (all factions the same). It is not challenging (silly AI tactics and strategy). Naval battles are a waste of time (former PotBS player). Very little to get excited about for me.

And as luck would have it, unfortunately for me, the latest patch now causes more CTDs than I had before!

To put this in TW context: I never played S:TW. I loved M:TW and expansions. R:TW was ok. M:TW2 with expansions was better than R:TW but not as good as the original.

In other game context: I continually load up Company of Heroes and play that over and over again. It is fun, challenging, and has a good variety of tactical solutions.

I really want to like this game, but I just can't. :no: I think the game developers have a done a good job with the peripherals of the game but totally lost it when it comes to the fundamentals of a semi-historical tactical (and fun) game.

YMMV,
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invalidopcode and others-

I think that for some people, the case might just be that ETW is the kind of genre that some people are into. The time period involved many of the european factions being extremely similar, so if they want to keep a general historical basis (which many people begin to rant and rave if they step out of line), they make the factions fairly similar. Some factions may have larger cavalry, some may have stronger melee stats. CA isn't going to add dozens of new units like some of the mods, but they try to make the factions somewhat unique.

Yes I understand the historical arguments but this is first and foremost a game and as a game it needs to be entertaining not a documentary. I dont think the keeping things historical holds here, there are plenty of things completely unhistorical in the game, the sameness of the factions feels more like a short cut to me "leave it to the modders" attitude from CA.

The problem then becomes how well are mods and modding supported, and so far, IMO its not that great. The need to sell DLC has negatively impacted on modding IMO and where are the modding tools, and further why is it every time there is an update, I see a string of posts of people who cant run the game anymore because they had mods installed. This doesnt inspire me with confidence to 'try a mod', and its all because of steam, and the game perhaps not supporting mods as well as it could. But Im not a modder so I comment from the outside.

Lets hear from a modder - How well is ETW stacking up as far as moddability compared to previous titles and other games?

I look forward to playing the game again with some mods, but mods are still bound somewhat by limitations of the vanilla engine.

It really feels like Ive been playing one campaign since I got the game, against a retarded opponent with endless stacks of identical units and infinite identical provinces to take. The campaign map is in serious need of variety, perhaps it needs random strategic resources or provincial units, and factions have an identity crisis, even if they made the armies have default behaviours on the battle field for each nation, or national characteristics - yes its gamey - but its a lot more fun than fighting the same guy endlessly over and again.

I remember posting a thread about the Hungarian death trap during MTW because of the battlemap position you would get when defending Hungary (at the bottom of the hill) taking the province became a real army destroyer. Flavour! wheres the flavour? And where have the EPIC battles gone? This game no longer delivers EPIC battles which had significance to how your Campaign developed. ETW needs to get these battles back becasue a game where your bored before youve finished a single campaign is not going to have people buying the next title. It will be like - "empires yeh played that for a couple of weeks and got bored fighting the same battle over again, this next one looks like the same thing, been there done that."

i haven't played since 1.2.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Too right, I got destroyed on VH/VH as GB in this latest patch where as previously it was quite easy.

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This has aroused my interest... :-)
Best units and best position in game... and destroyed?! well...

I think the new patched make for a much more challenging game, especially on the VH/VH settings. Where some players find it frustrating with "unreasonable" CAI, I like the challenge. As GB I do lose campaigns and I hate it when I get a fleet destroyed as it really effs up my trade, but then this is on VH/VH so what's the point in crying about it - I should only commit to fight when I know I can win, right? This is where the battles do gain strategic importance as if I lose my home fleet then I know I'll be bankrupt unless I take some drastic measures, that I can't spam merchantmen to trade theatres without an escort and that if I even step foot on the continent with Jonny Churchill I know I'm dead. It's a balancing act and an act I like.

Okay here's my report from the first night of my new VH/VH Great Britain Long Campaign.

I've proceeded with extreme care this time being careful to avoid a war with France at this early stage in the game while I clear the Spanish and pirates from the Caribbean and secure my position in North America. Avoiding war with the French in the beginning is now essential for me.

Thought I was done for yet again when the Huron immediately declared war and attacked me but I managed to repel them. I'm on the defensive as far as Rupert's Land goes and intend to make a move against the natives only when my land is absolutely secure. I've been most fortunate in terms of schools this time round, a new town (from which I built a school) and a new gentleman spawned in Rupert's Land making me even more determined to hold the place. As usual I converted the Church school at Oxford into a real school.
I have taken all the islands of the Caribbean from the Spanish and am currentlly working on the pirates settlements which are far from the easy battle they used to be. I suffered such heavy losses in my last assault that it will cost me over 6000 gold to replenish my army.
The British Isles have been almost entirely at peace aside from one incursion from a Prussian fleet which was swiftly sunk beneath the sea. With no French fleets bombarding me I've got the time to really secure Britain although a Spanish fleet is hanging around the North of Scotland for some reason. I'll see to that shortly.

So it's 1707 and all in all things are going very well. My plan is to wipe out the pirates and then focus on North America. I'm too afraid to even think about invading any of the powers on mainland Europe.

But I must say, I'm having lots of fun.

You are braver men than I!

I went with GB on Hard. Not VH, not yet...

I did manage to not have the Huron attack on the first turn by making a state gift to them. Sure it was only 5 points that have long run out, but they have not yet attacked, and I am a bit perturbed about it now. It is 1714.

I did dare to go onto the mainland and the French did declare war but I took out their fleet, captured Flanders, Alsace, and Württemberg, (Prussia took the Rhineland), and besieged Paris. While in North America I took Upper and Lower Canada and to save Paris they gave me French Guyana for peace. I took Gibraltar and Hispaniola also from the Spanish and had an army in Portugal moved into Spain and captured it too. They wouldn’t swap lands in America to save it. I guess they thought they had other safe regions to fall back to.

This bothers me a bit. I think I liked it better in 1.1 when they would deal colonies for their capital. The other thing that still bothers me is that you lose money taking regions, even rich ones like Spain. That and I liked Austria’s troops better as arranged in 1.1. Some of the changes I just don’t get.

Anyway, on with the show. And yes I am enjoying it.