Israel and Hamas possibly facing a trial

The United Nations backs the Goldstone Gaza War report

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Reporting from Jerusalem and The United Nations - In a vote likely to complicate U.S. efforts to revive Middle East peace talks, the United Nations Human Rights Council on Friday endorsed a report calling on Israel and Hamas to conduct credible investigations of alleged war crimes by their forces or face further international inquiries and possible prosecutions.

The action in Geneva by the 47-nation council was a sharp setback for Israel, which had labored to discredit the month-old U.N. report. The council's vote could force Israel to defend itself for months or perhaps years -- in diplomatic forums, if not criminal tribunals -- as U.N. bodies grapple with highly charged fallout from last winter's conflict in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

Although the council embraced a report that condemned both sides, the resolution itself criticized only Israel and was adopted by a wide margin.

For the Obama administration, the decision represents a new obstacle to its goal of negotiations to establish a Palestinian state. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had warned that an international stamp of approval for the war crimes allegations would prevent Israel from "taking risks" to reach a statehood accord. And the U.S.-backed Palestinian leadership in the West Bank, after first accepting that argument under U.S. pressure, reversed its stand and pushed for Friday's vote.

With only the United States and five European allies objecting, the council, dominated by developing nations, fully endorsed the findings and recommendations of an expert panel led by South African jurist Richard Goldstone that investigated the Gaza conflict.

Twenty-five nations, including Russia and China, voted for the resolution promoted by Arab members, and 16 nations abstained or did not vote. Egyptian Ambassador Hisham Badr, a key supporter, told the council that it "cannot turn a blind eye to the deteriorating human rights situation in the occupied Palestinian territories."

State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said the United States voted against the measure out of concern "that it will exacerbate polarization and divisiveness" and undermine special U.S. envoy George J. Mitchell's work to restart peace talks broken off in December.

"What's distressing us," Kelly said Friday, "is that we're losing focus on this ultimate goal, which is a lasting peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians."

A spokesman for Mahmoud Abbas, president of the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority, called for the U.N. report's full implementation "to translate words into deeds" and "protect our people in the future from any form of aggression."

Israel's Foreign Ministry said the council's decision "provides encouragement for terrorist organizations worldwide" by condemning one state's efforts to defend itself against a militant group.

The Goldstone panel said Israel used disproportionate force, deliberately targeted civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure. It accused the Islamic militant group Hamas of deliberately targeting Israeli civilians with years of cross-border rocket fire leading up to Israel's 22-day offensive, which left 13 Israelis and nearly 1,400 Palestinians dead.

The report urged the U.N. Security Council to require both sides to show within six months that they are conducting impartial investigations; failing that, it said, the Security Council should refer the allegations to prosecutors at the International Criminal Court based in The Hague.

The resolution adopted Friday will not necessarily lead to war crimes trials. Rather than call for Security Council action, it urged debate in the U.N. General Assembly, which lacks authority to refer cases to The Hague, and asked U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to report on whether Israel was heeding the report. A U.N. spokeswoman, Michele Montas, said Ban was studying the resolution and would "do whatever is asked of us."

Israeli officials worry that U.N. debates and inquiries will further isolate the Jewish state and encourage private lawsuits against Israeli officials and soldiers in countries that accept jurisdiction for war crimes beyond their borders. Last month, British activists tried, but failed, to get a British court to order Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak's arrest during his visit to London.

The Israelis have rejected the U.N. report's recommendation for a special inquiry on their conduct in Gaza. They argue that Israel has an independent judiciary that can review any outcome of the military's ongoing investigations of 23 cases involving civilian deaths. Some Israeli officials have called for an independent review by Aharon Barak, the former head of the nation's Supreme Court, but that idea has failed to gain traction.

While welcoming Friday's vote and calling for trials of Israelis, Hamas said it would investigate the U.N. allegations against it. The United States and European Union, along with Israel, brand Hamas a terrorist organization and give no credence to that promise.

Israeli officials said they were powerless to stop the resolution. But even their lobbying for solid Western opposition fell short when Britain and France chose not to take part in the vote.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband told the BBC that Britain and France sat out because it would upset efforts to restart peace talks and persuade Israel to end its crippling blockade of Gaza. But delegates from both countries in Geneva said they took the war crimes allegations seriously.

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source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...bref=obnetwork

Another interesting video here. It's Al-Jazeera though, right-wingers please don't go all insane. Thank you.

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Well, Judge Richard Goldstone has finally brought forth his report, about a week ago the UN Security Council has accepted the the report brought forward on the Gaza War. This meaning that both Israel and Hamas will have to conduct their own investigations within six months or they will be referred to the ICC in The Hague.

25 countries, including the big fish Russia, China and India voted in favour of the report, while six voted against, including the United States of America, and the Netherlands.

My opinion: It's good that Israel has lost its position of being untouchable (interestingly Ehud Barak also might have faced an arrest in the United Kingdom a short time ago. If they fail to manage to conduct their own investigation which will have to be approved of by the UN, otherwise they will be tried in the Hague. Just like the people in Bosnia.

It's interesting to see, eh. I'm not anti-Israel, and it's a good thing that Hamas is also facing consequences, it's a shame though that almost all the attacks are directed towards Israel (although it's really not that surprising). In any case, if Israel is tried for war crimes, we might see interesting things.

Two things should happen: The (ultra)orthodox Jews should get the idea of their minds they were for some reason predestined to live in that land, and the Arab nations will have to accept that the Jews are there and most likely will not leave. Once we get the extremists from both sides to the court room, there will be room for the moderates to discuss.

Hey, it's not impossible, even Israel and Iran have negotiated. :2thumbsup:

I think that Judge Richard Goldstone is one of the most respectable people on the planet and should at least get a Nobel Peace Prize (instead of Hussein Obama, for example).

Peace out,

- Hax

Israel doesn't accept the legitimacy of the ICC, having not ratified the agreement. Therefore, no on from there can be brought before it.

What a just world we live in.

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Israel doesn't accept the legitimacy of the ICC, having not ratified the agreement. Therefore, no on from there can be brought before it.

What a just world we live in.

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Actually, there's something to that. The Palestinian Authority is trying to get approval by the United Nations to be accepted as a member state for the ICC. If they agree, the ICC will have jurisdiction to judge any person that commits crimes within the borders of the member state in which the crimes have been perpetuated. :2thumbsup:

Might be something, eh..you never know.

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If they agree, the ICC will have jurisdiction to judge any person that commits crimes within the borders of the member state in which the crimes have been perpetuated.

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No need, these constitute grave violations of the4th so there is universal jurisdiction which means any signatory can bring them to court.

the UN is in no position to dictate about morals to Israel. we took a risk in pulling out of gaza with the UN telling us that they would come to our defense. for years rockets fell on civilian populations and the UN was silent. we fight back, they go nuts. besides most western nations didnt vote for it. now what does that tell you about it?
what a load of :daisy: idiots, the UN all are. a joke, thats what they are. run by thugs and liars. (sorry i had to vent.)
Bibis speech to the UN was magnificent. that is all i will say about the matter, coming to the realization that debate here is futile. :wall:

Well, y'know, Hooah...

There's more to the world than just Israel. There's more to the world than just Palestine. Both sides have committed atrocities. We should learn from our mistakes.

Judge Goldstone is Jewish and has a lot of respect from the South African people. He is a man with loads of experience. If there's anyone fit to handle the situation, it's probably him.

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Hamas to conduct credible investigations

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Have fun with that, UN.

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the UN is in no position to dictate about morals to Israel.

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Yes it is.

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we took a risk in pulling out of gaza

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No you didn't, neither did Israel for that matter.

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with the UN telling us that they would come to our defense.

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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for years rockets fell on civilian populations and the UN was silent.

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Bollox

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we fight back, they go nuts.

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They went nuts because it appears the State was flagrantly commiting war crimes against civilians.

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coming to the realization that debate here is futile

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Thats sad, over time your knee jerk reactions to any subject mentioning Israel had matured and moderated.
You appear to have regressed

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the UN is in no position to dictate about morals to Israel.

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Because you are the choosen ones? Like in "Highlander"?

Newsflash, the UN is ALL about dictating morals to individual states. One might even argue that is the reason why the UN exists!

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we took a risk in pulling out of gaza with the UN telling us that they would come to our defense.

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Some rabbid rabi told you this? I would love if you gave some links to support it, because from all I have read, that is... Just wrong.

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for years rockets fell on civilian populations and the UN was silent.

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How many civilians did those rockets kill? In the meantime, how many civilians did israel kill? And let's face it, the UN wasn't really silent, nor the world press. I even heard about it in backwater Austria.

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we fight back, they go nuts.

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Well, if less civilians and ordinary citizens would get hurt in your "fight back" I dont think many would have a problem. Israel is a modern state, you have the technology to limit non-military casualties. You just choose not to. Are you suprised people react?

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besides most western nations didnt vote for it. now what does that tell you about it?

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It tells me that most western nations thinks we might aswell build a wall around both countries, throw in some weapons occasionaly, and show it on prime-time TV.

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what a load of :daisy: idiots, the UN all are. a joke, thats what they are. run by thugs and liars. (sorry i had to vent.)

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Yeah, cause anyone not agreeing on Israels stance in their conflict is thugs and liars. Not to mention nazis. Remind me again, how many civilians has Israel killed? Is it more or less than the other side? You cant have the belief that one israeli life = 10 others and have it agreed on world wide.

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Bibis speech to the UN was magnificent. that is all i will say about the matter, coming to the realization that debate here is futile.

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When I say that debate is futile, I would rather point at individual cases than general ones :wall:

I wish there could be a way to erase that whole region. World would be much nicer then.

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

I wish there could be a way to erase that whole region. World would be much nicer then.

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You know, I could say the F-word and get banned...

But a statement like yours is quite ok... AMERICA, :daisy: YEAH!!!!

However, I am still in favour of building walls and throwing in weapons, broadcasted on live-TV at prime-time :idea2:

He "wished there were" (subjunctive, hence clearly hypothetical) and did not single out any particular nation/culture for cultur bashing. So yes, his statement DOES pass muster as an expression of frustration (however unrealistic). SF

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

AMERICA, :daisy: YEAH!!!!

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Knee-jerk very much, huh? What makes you think the post you responded to is in any way related to the US?

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Knee-jerk very much, huh? What makes you think the post you responded to is in any way related to the US?

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Uh, actually that was <- to a popular movie where nationalistic moral algorithms were seen as a saviour of the free world in a very sarcastic way.

Nationalities aside :shame:

EDIT: One might also ask who Israels biggest supporter is.

EDIT no. 2: Isn't it kind of strange that a forum allows someone to claim a whole region should be erased, while at the same time banning people for using the A-B-C-word? Sometimes one would rather have the thought-police than the word-police ;)

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

the UN is in no position to dictate about morals to Israel. we took a risk in pulling out of gaza with the UN telling us that they would come to our defense. for years rockets fell on civilian populations and the UN was silent. we fight back, they go nuts. besides most western nations didnt vote for it. now what does that tell you about it?
what a load of :daisy: idiots, the UN all are. a joke, thats what they are. run by thugs and liars. (sorry i had to vent.)
Bibis speech to the UN was magnificent. that is all i will say about the matter, coming to the realization that debate here is futile. :wall:

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Rubbish, bombing the hell out of Gaza was totally unjustified and pretty much an unmitigated military failure as well

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Rubbish, bombing the hell out of Gaza was totally unjustified and pretty much an unmitigated military failure as well

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Wait, are you talking about when the Palestinians bombed the hell out of gaza or when the israeli bombed the hell out of gaza...

Cause for a layman like me, I am really struggling here...

From my humble point of view, yeah, both sides should be up for Haag...

I am with Hooahguy. All this nonsense, it basicly comes down to Israel not having the right to defend themselves because they aren't helpless. The Dutch killed entire villages in Indonesia. The French killed entire villages in Algeria. The rape of Africa. And we weren't even under attack, we have no moral authority here.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

EDIT no. 2: Isn't it kind of strange that a forum allows someone to claim a whole region should be erased, while at the same time banning people for using the A-B-C-word? Sometimes one would rather have the thought-police than the word-police ;)

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What can I do.. All that unwillingness to solve their problems as matured people is giving me a headache. :shrug:

You know there is a saying(I try to translate this to English):

"Little boys solve their problems with fists but men solve their problems with words."

So.. Now you know what I think about those who are in power there..

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

"Little boys solve their problems with fists but men solve their problems with words."

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That's what mommy says. Dad says grab an end of wood and kick their butts. Dad is right.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I am with Hooahguy. All this nonsense, it basicly comes down to Israel not having the right to defend themselves because they aren't helpless. The Dutch killed entire villages in Indonesia. The French killed entire villages in Algeria. The rape of Africa. And we weren't even under attack, we have no moral authority here.

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The UN isn't the Netherlands or France. And 1940's isn't the 2010's.

I heavily applaud this resolution. Let's see if the Israeli start treating the Palestinian offensives with a little more precaution from now on, and not do "Here's the objective, accomplish at all costs, :daisy: the rest".

EDIT: And indeed, the greatest blow is possibly that the decision to compel Israel and Hamas to investigations was done by a Jewish judge who believes in the right of Israel to exist.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

The UN isn't the Netherlands or France.

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It's the nobel peace prize of coalitions who takes the UN seriously nowadays, muppet show. What authority do they think they have can't just make things go away the UN should be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

It's the nobel peace prize of coalitions who takes the UN seriously nowadays, muppet show. What authority do they think they have can't just make things go away the UN should be ignored.

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Enjoy your world war 3.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Enjoy your world war 3.

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Kinda funny you say so, WW1 was a coalition falling apart over something minor after all. And nowadays it's meaningless, once again they want too much too fast.

Frag, are you forgetting that Israel was created by the UN?

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Frag, are you forgetting that Israel was created by the UN?

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Are you forgetting that deserving people have won the nobel peace price?

Interesting take.

Except, that if you want to safeguard the lifes of people, you generally don't bomb hospitals.

If they wanted to safeguard the lives of civilians so dearly, they should have sent out an expert team of snipers, for example.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Except, that if you want to safeguard the lifes of people, you generally don't bomb hospitals.rs

If they wanted to safeguard the lives of civilians so dearly, they should have sent out an expert team of snipers, for example.

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Maybe it helps to not be shooting rockets from a hospital, but that thought seems to really confuse people. And I have no idea why. They are sacrificing their own just for good pictures. These aren't human beings they are the scum of the earth, it's a media war and Israel is the frontline.

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These aren't human beings

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Dehumanization is the first step to genocide. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Hax

Dehumanization is the first step to genocide. :2thumbsup:

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If you ever meet someone from that place, be sure to ask what nice guys these Hamas are.

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If you ever meet someone from that place, be sure to ask what nice guys these Hamas are.

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They are still humans.