greek diphtongs pronunciation

I think that the Greek pronunciation in EB is wrong!
Modern Greek: ai-e, ei-i:, oi-i:
For example:
cataphractoi: katafrakti
hyspaspistai: hispaspiste

I will try using the International Phoenetic Alphabet next time... :)

greek diphthongs:

αι - ai
like ε (epsilon), but longer like in elsewhere
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αυ - au
ahv, as in sovereign, except before a voiceless consonant, in which case ahf
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ει -ei
as in Keith, same as η (eta)
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ευ - eu
as in several, left
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οι - oi
same as η
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ου - ou
as in food
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υι - ui
same as η
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γγ - gg
as in anger
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γκ - gk
as in anger, sink, or go
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γχ - gh
as in ankh
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μπ - mp (b)
as in bumble
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ντ - nt (d)
as in dander

We're using Ancient Greek which is different to Byzantine Greek wich is different to Modern Greek.

Like 19 century Romanian is different to 20 century Romanian. Like in Moldova people speak with a different accent. The accent is different yet it is just another Romanian variety.

Pronunciation of Greek has changed in the past 2,300 years - a lot of change. The same goes for Latin. If you're curious as to our major sources on the matter, I suggest you check out Vox Graeca: The Pronunciation of Classical Greek by W. Sidney Allen.

Otherwise, a cursory search of the fora will show that this topic has been covered already and multiple times in more depth.

As Cronos implied: the conventions you list are from dialects well past the EB timeframe.

Attic is our mainstay (real koine did still take some time to ‘mature’ to the koine we know, is comparatively less well studied, and throughout the timeframe Attic kept its status as a ‘sophisticated/learned dialect’) with some excursions to specific dialects when we deem appropriate (e.g. Ondres as vocativus instead of Andres for some command calls, which is Makedonian; similarly some nautical terms are kept in Ionic.)

Consequentially our idea of a ‘correct pronunciation’ follows academic conventions. Of course since nobody among us (and/or rather among the actors who kindly volunteered their time to this project) is absolutely perfect when it comes to a language they do not speak nor have ever heard spoken natively; and since Attic has plenty of intricacies as a language it is possible that certain sentences/words have not been rendered correctly or that ‘barbarisms’ (Anglicized pronunciation) have inadvertently cropped up.


Apart from Vox Graeca, any beginners dictionary to Attic Greek should cover the basics; and of course there is the excellent online reference in keravnos' signature.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visarion

why one should first do a search for the topic they want to discuss

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look, you could have just searched the forum for the reason why greek is pronunced that way, before asking such a question/making such a request; a google search for "Ancient Greek" could have also answered your question. alternatively, I think Keravnos has the reason behind the EB pronunciation in his sig (does he still use the sig in question?).:book:

other than this, I have nothing to add-the posters before mine who answered you are correct.

now if I may, I need to recover from the stupidity that was the french army officer corps during the seven years war. :dizzy2:

I know now that in ancient times Greek words were pronunced differently but I still think that Modern Greek sounds better! :) No offence!
Anyway I like Celtic, Germanic and Iranian pronunciatian and voices in EB much better than Greek voices and pronunciation! Again no offence! Just trying to help... Thanks for understanding!
Great EB team by the way!

Well the idea is that I grew up in a village in Romania where there are Greek inhabitants and they speak an obsolete form of Greek. I know Modern Greek too! What I want to say is that Greek pronunciation in EB doesn't sound natural, it sounds like an Englishman trying to speak French if you know what I mean... :) :D

with all respect for the people who spent countless hours on this mod and made something else... something great! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visarion

I know now that in ancient times Greek words were pronunced differently but I still think that Modern Greek sounds better! :) No offence!
Anyway I like Celtic, Germanic and Iranian pronunciatian and voices in EB much better than Greek voices and pronunciation! Again no offence! Just trying to help... Thanks for understanding!
Great EB team by the way!

Well the idea is that I grew up in a village in Romania where there are Greek inhabitants and they speak an obsolete form of Greek. I know Modern Greek too! What I want to say is that Greek pronunciation in EB doesn't sound natural, it sounds like an Englishman trying to speak French if you know what I mean... :) :D

with all respect for the people who spent countless hours on this mod and made something else... something great! :)

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Accent and pronounciation are two different things though.

AFAIK my ancient Greek the pronounciation is good in EB.
The accent is indeed a bit unnatural. But then again, unless you find a 2300 year old Greek the accent will stay. A modern Greek will sound just as unnatural - though perhaps less English at times.

There is a modern Greek among the voices. :juggle:

you know what's really annoying? I don't know how to express myself! :wall: At pezhetairoi for example when the unit says "pezhetairoi" followed by "pz pz" :oops:. And this phenomenon apears at almost all Hellenistic units... :dizzy2:

That is a clipping issue --not an intended pronunciation or actual recorded result: it is a data corruption presumably resulting from converting to the in game audio format. I thought this had been resolved for EB 1.1/1.2 though?

I think authenticity is the best pursuit here.

As a Norwegian, I think Old Norse sounds weird, but its certainly very appropriate for any depiction based on the period and region where they were speaking it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visarion

I know now that in ancient times Greek words were pronunced differently but I still think that Modern Greek sounds better! :) No offence!
Anyway I like Celtic, Germanic and Iranian pronunciatian and voices in EB much better than Greek voices and pronunciation! Again no offence! Just trying to help... Thanks for understanding!
Great EB team by the way!

Well the idea is that I grew up in a village in Romania where there are Greek inhabitants and they speak an obsolete form of Greek. I know Modern Greek too! What I want to say is that Greek pronunciation in EB doesn't sound natural, it sounds like an Englishman trying to speak French if you know what I mean... :) :D

with all respect for the people who spent countless hours on this mod and made something else... something great! :)

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You dislike the greek but like all the other voices. Realise that the other voices are likely having mistakes in the accent and pronunciation as well. The only reason you dislike the greek is because you speak greek and its different to what you know. Thats as bad as me claiming americans are bastardising my language because they spell words differently and talk with those funny nasal accents. Its just a personal preference of yours and totally unrelated to the era the mod is depicting.

I am sure any ancient greeks I might meet seem to think that your 'modern' greek is an affront to their language that they know and love. How can you say modern greek sounds 'better'. Its just different and differences are good.

in any case voices in RTW sound much better than voices in EB

Wut?

Actually, some of the Vanilla voices are horrible. I have a German version of RTW and I really hate the Greek battle speeches, because they make the Greeks sound like whining :daisy: (which they weren't). Also, the Eastern voices sound totally effete and stupid. At least that part could be corrected in EB.
All in all, EB's voices are a 400% improvement over RTW.

It's not a matter of what sounds better. Maybe it would sound better if the Greeks would speak French.

"O làlà, je suis un Oplitai Aploi et ça c'est seulement un Élènicoi Catafractoi....attaqué!!"


But they didn't. They did speak anciet Greek and so they should ingame. No discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visarion

in any case voices in RTW sound much better than voices in EB

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You could just play another mod you know.
And if you think RTW voices were better, then stick to RTW. Easy as that.

this is a bit like someone suggesting to put pork in a kebab and after the kebab man explained why he does not use pork replies with: "but pork tastes good!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

this is a bit like someone suggesting to put pork in a kebab and after the kebab man explained why he does not use pork replies with: "but pork tastes good!"

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Sacraliege!!! Very apt analogy though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SwissBarbar

It's not a matter of what sounds better. Maybe it would sound better if the Greeks would speak French.

"O làlà, je suis un Oplitai Aploi et ça c'est seulement un Élènicoi Catafractoi....attaqué!!"


But they didn't. They did speak anciet Greek and so they should ingame. No discussion.

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Lmao. Or so to say...
(But it should be "attaquez!" if it's supposed to be the second-person plural imperative of attaquer ;-) )

Visarion et al, perhaps you can just take it as read that the EB team are not going to use modern Greek pronunciations.

Period.

but what about the roman names of units in EB? ae is pronuced ai and not e or cae si pronunced kai and not che...

That's the Latin academic pronunciation. Or at least, that's how I learned it in school.

Also known as Classical Latin, which would be the closest known form to the language of EB's timeframe... We sure don't want Medieval Latin in EB...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visarion

but what about the roman names of units in EB? ae is pronuced ai and not e or cae si pronunced kai and not che...

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Sigh.

Would it hurt to do a little research first?

Vox Latina

It looks like I have much to learn...

That is, in fact, a great attitude to have, and is also true for all of us at EB. Always a lot to learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

Lmao. Or so to say...
(But it should be "attaquez!" if it's supposed to be the second-person plural imperative of attaquer ;-) )

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Ok, my fault ;-)

You know what? I started playing EB again with the Epirotes and now that I know that Greek and Latin were so different back then I think that voices sound great! :)
And it's much better then RTW on all aspects!

lol no offense but if the EB team had a dollar for everytime somebody said the Greek pronunciation is wrong:laugh4: