To many rumors about Rome.exe and Vanilla

In every thread I look it spreads like a disease: Vanilla and Rome.exe bashing :dizzy2:
There are so many rumours and untested facts. For example: Nobody really knows if the BI or Alex Ki on the stratmap is doing more naval invasions or not. No studies have been made. :book:

Another point is Vanilla bashing. Yes of course, if you want a historical mod with a lot of units EB is better than Vanilla. No doubt. But Vanilla has a completly different target. Please dont forget that. And there are things like naval invasions and aggressive KI, that works better in Vanilla as in EB.

I also prefer EB over Vanilla(Like anybody in this forum, but please stop feeling so elite...), but seeing everything black/white and making EB a god and Vanilla a devil is not constructive.
And now, if anybody has a study about the naval invasion please post it :egypt:

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Originally Posted by seienchin

In every thread I look it spreads like a disease: Vanilla and Rome.exe bashing :dizzy2:
There are so many rumours and untested facts. For example: Nobody really knows if the BI or Alex Ki on the stratmap is doing more naval invasions or not. No studies have been made. :book:

Another point is Vanilla bashing. Yes of course, if you want a historical mod with a lot of units EB is better than Vanilla. No doubt. But Vanilla has a completly different target. Please dont forget that. And there are things like naval invasions and aggressive KI, that works better in Vanilla as in EB.

I also prefer EB over Vanilla(Like anybody in this forum, but please stop feeling so elite...), but seeing everything black/white and making EB a god and Vanilla a devil is not constructive.
And now, if anybody has a study about the naval invasion please post it :egypt:

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Agree! I like Vanilla RTW as much as EB. It's for me a totally different fun to play, and I don't play them as the same game! How i like to see dozens of guys flying after contact of a heavy cav. charge! oe the Lorica Segmentata of the late legionnaries, men, they're cool and he only reason I played as Roman! or the middle kingdom army of the Egypt kingdom... of corse, it's ahistorical, but they're damn cool!

seienchin's right! stop bashing!

I agree with you guys - I might play EB (and soon RTR-FoE) more then I used to play vanilla, but all of them are great. The difference is just that they concentrate on different aspects, this doesn't make Vanilla less valueable, just more entertaining for thoose who like cool looking units, mass of action, and other things like that (from personal experience I can say that some of it is a nice change from mods although I still prefer the later in my limited time).

Um. BI AI does naval invasions, just idiotically. Alex AI retrains, does better diplo and naval invasions.

I greatly prefer EB to RTW vanilla, but I still acknowledge that they're both great games with different things to offer. -M

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Originally Posted by seienchin

In every thread I look it spreads like a disease: Vanilla and Rome.exe bashing :dizzy2:
There are so many rumours and untested facts. For example: Nobody really knows if the BI or Alex Ki on the stratmap is doing more naval invasions or not. No studies have been made. :book:

Another point is Vanilla bashing. Yes of course, if you want a historical mod with a lot of units EB is better than Vanilla. No doubt. But Vanilla has a completly different target. Please dont forget that. And there are things like naval invasions and aggressive KI, that works better in Vanilla as in EB.

I also prefer EB over Vanilla(Like anybody in this forum, but please stop feeling so elite...), but seeing everything black/white and making EB a god and Vanilla a devil is not constructive.
And now, if anybody has a study about the naval invasion please post it :egypt:

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executable wise, research was done. I did them myself to double check, and have come to the same conclusion ASM has: stick with Alex.exe when playing EB.

otherwise, I love all three .exe's; each has its own advantages-you want an aggresive but eay time, play RTW. want a bloddy nose, but still easy-ish? try BI. want hardcore and a possible ugly death? try Alex.

I dunno, I dislike RTW for being somewhat ahistorical and possibly too focused on fun, gameplay and action; appealing to the teenage crowd.

But
1. It still reaches that crowd and shows them something of our history that they might not otherwise have learned.
2. The battles, it is the first game I know of doing them like that.
3. It forms the basic for our beloved EB, if there was no Vanilla, there would be no EB.

I was never a fan of RTW vanilla, my interests were more focused on medieval times and late
antiquity. That changed with eb. I'd say that my interest for antiquity is now even bigger than my interest for medieval times while my interest for LA and early Medival times is still biggest.
But discovering Eb didnt reconciliate me with RTW vanilla. I still consider it dull, and a bunch of other epithets I'm not allowed to write here. Whenever I still taste to much vanilla in the flavor of a mod I dismiss it.:skull:

Well, I allready try EB on 3 plattform (vanilla, BI, and Alex), and the one that give statisfying campaign game is BI (Shieldwall + Night Battles + Swimming), Alex has supperior AI, but less naval warfare. RTW??? They didn't have anything special, just stupid AI wondering arround

Actually, RTW AI can surprise you sometimes. I've had naval invasions, attacks against multiple cities of mine etc. They are rare but when they happen .. :2thumbsup:

Exactly. Just play Vannila and you see plenty of naval invasions. Why should the AI in EB stop doing them?:juggle2:

In reality the unexplored exe is BI.
If EB2 wasn't being done I'd personally have pushed for a "1.5" edition for BI using many of their features.
Also, imho most of AI idiocy is related to them having too much money instead of being a specific exe problem.
I personally experimented with balancing the game so that there is a relatively short money supplu for most of the game and that made things much more reasonable, even seeing AI asking for ceasefire in a semi-sensible way.

Imho regardless of the exe there hasn't been enough research on gameplay under some conditions, some of which can bring surprising results.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another BI vs Alex thread. Some are pretty irrational on this subject...

I was pretty disappointed with vanilla, manly I felt they did a hack job to make a quick buck.. But I can remember many good hours of playing it. Still, I was so disappointed that I wont be buying any TW products unless I need them for a mod...

-Apple

There would not be EB, RTR, IBTW, RS, etc if it was not for Rome Total War (aka vanilla) period. We gotta be thankfull foir it's release and it's "open" code

Each exe has its own behaviour and with enough optimization can deliver a good experience.
Alex might have a slightly better battle AI, BI better options for faction managent and RTW is the more widespread platform.

The only good thing about vanilla is the AI campaign movements other wise the units :daisy:, its sad cas i love playin online but its always the same boring factions because units are so limited, sycthia. mac, GC. pontus, Carthage, armenia and thrace may as well be the same faction the units barely vary, they all use stupid poorly balanced phalanxes and have the shite morale they al feel the same when using them.

I try goin spain because they are the only decent faction with good troop selection other than rome, and their morale is not even worth laughing about, men run be4 they even engage. I wish some 1 would revamp the vanilla version so we could further enjoy what has become boring :(

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Originally Posted by Leão magno

There would not be EB, RTR, IBTW, RS, etc if it was not for Rome Total War (aka vanilla) period. We gotta be thankfull foir it's release and it's "open" code

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I doubt that CA made this game for only for the sheer gratitude:laugh4:

Its funny how people say to be desapointed with RTW vannila.. I for myself was never desapointed, becouse only more recent times i became aware of the moding comunity, and of his work with games. when i became aware of this phenom i realize the ramifications were huge, and the basic game can take nmanny faces, and manny conceipts.

I play alot of RTW when came out alot, without knowing the existence of mods, and i always loved the game.

I only tried the alex exe, and at first i thought it was very good, very rare ctds, but after awhile the ctds become constant, so i changed back to RTW exe, and im sticking with it for the time being, its working very fine, the ctds arent so save corrupted as in Alex exe. this is from my experience.

I suspect the

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sucking something proverbial

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will earn you a warning (I know I have had one for far less). If not, I will ask you to pay heed to your langauge, the explicite+sms/"Youtube"/chat style of writing makes people take your less seriously and possibly even dismiss your opinions.

Further, some people might get offended.

Just a friendly hint...

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

I doubt that CA made this game for only for the sheer gratitude:laugh4:

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It is not about sheer gratitude, it has costs to be created it has markets adaptations, tendences, it was not created for history lovers only, it is a video game after all... but if it was not for it, we would not be here discussing EB now or would we?

Vanilia bashing is what keep us together. If we didnt have vanilia the community would within days erupt into civilwar! We stand together against the evil we call vanilia! All hail the EB-team!! Burn the heretics!!!

Let's cut the spam down, shall we?

Well, if there was no RTW.exe, we won't play EB this day... just don't condemn them too much, everything envolves and learned from previous faults, and today, we got the excellent Bi.exe, Alex.exe, and Many - many great mod (especially the great EB) because of RTW.exe paved their way.... :2thumbsup:. Cheers for RTW.exe :beer: :party:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, I still enjoy Vanilla BI, as they are still A LOT BETTER THAN **** (insert a mod that claims that they are the equivalent of EB in the BI timeframe, but they are epic fail)........

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Originally Posted by Leão magno

It is not about sheer gratitude, it has costs to be created it has markets adaptations, tendences, it was not created for history lovers only, it is a video game after all... but if it was not for it, we would not be here discussing EB now or would we?

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Well, if there was no RTW.exe, we won't play EB this day... just don't condemn them too much, everything envolves and learned from previous faults, and today, we got the excellent Bi.exe, Alex.exe, and Many - many great mod (especially the great EB) because of RTW.exe paved their way....

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That kind of sentiment is such a cop out and it's why CA will continue to make poor games, they know many will buy them anyways, even if their games are buggy and have a arcade feel to them. I honor them for STW. Maybe even MTW. But after that, once they had a decent rep, all they have done is produced the minimum to make a quick buck. Its been the same story with them since. They produce games that have major bugs and a horrible AI. Everyone is always saying, "It will be so much better with the next patch/game". That's a pipe dream, nothing more.

If they would line their pockets a little less, put more into programming and design, they could make another revolutionary game AND still make much money. Especially with all the possible "free" help/volunteers out there, they should be producing much better than a pretty graphical package.

My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Lovejoy

We stand together against the evil we call vanilia! All hail the EB-team!! Burn the heretics!!!

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hehehe, :D

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Well, I still enjoy Vanilla BI, as they are still A LOT BETTER THAN **** (insert a mod that claims that they are the equivalent of EB in the BI timeframe, but they are epic fail)

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Yeah, I do also wish I could play an EB version of BI.

I will still refuse to play vanilla BI though..

First there was Shogun, and it was awesome.
Then there was Medieval, and it was atmospheric.
Then there was Rome, and it was disappointing.

Naturally, I was younger when I first player Shogun, and my earlier experiences in computer strategy games was pretty much limited to AoE2:AoK, C&C:TS and HoM&M3:RoE. So, Shogun was a huge step in the "right" direction. Intuitive gameplay, challenging opponents (I actually *gasp* lost some of my campaigns!), sense of historicity and great atmosphere (the music especially).

Medieval was a sequel, but it was in many ways very similar to Shogun. It had a great atmosphere, a dark medieval ambience that really fit the game. However, the game was much easier than Shogun. You had to go to Very Hard settings to get some challenge to the gameplay and the game was out of balance in many ways. A single Cataphract unit could take hundreds and hundreds of enemy warriors while losing a handful soldiers. My friends used to use armies made up of a general and 19 units of a certain kind, depending on the faction, on Very Hard and steamroll through every opponent (eg. Militia Sergeant or sth). However, the atmosphere was still good and it was just orgasmic to declare war by literally throwing, say, seven armies in your opponent's province with that "thump!" sound.

Then came Rome. The gameplay had changed considerably with 3D campaign map and the fact you maneuver your armies. While this was all fine and dandy, it was rather annoying that moving armies was slower. The biggest thing was the lack of atmosphere, though. The menus, music and graphics seemed... cleaner. More polished. And this was before you got into your first battle. While the sceneries looked fantastic and cities looked much better than in earlier releases, the units too seemed... plasticy. Unrealistically shiny armour, every single warrior in uniform... uniforms. And so on. And the battles themselves, then? The units did at least look impressive marching in order in their now 3D glory in the beautiful sceneries. However, once the first blood was drawn... It was as if a stopwatch started. Every single battle ended before they really began. Oftentimes if your cavalry was ahead of your main force the infantry wouldn't make it; the enemy would be in flight before most of your army had met the enemy. In case your infantry did clash with your opponent's you only had to slightly concern one enemy unit to cause a mass rout. Enemy generals would run into your pikemen, et cetera, et cetera.

The game was even easier than Medieval. There was no atmosphere to talk about. The units looked plasticy and unrealistic. There was no real sense of historicity, with the stereotyped factions and fantasy units (pyjamamen and Roman battlefield ninjas FTL) - and factions! The map was definitely not depicting the world in 270BC. It was quite perplexing. On one hand, the game was definitely improved, with strategic maneuvaribility and truly 3D battles and indeed quite magnificent graphics. However, somewhere in the process of game's development, challenge, realism, historicity, atmosphere and - for me, at least - fun had been left behind. To me, R:TW was like a Hollywood movie, (y'know, beautiful people, easy entertainment and lots of explosions), with little to no substance.

In my opinion, thus, R:TW sucks.

I played maybe 4-6 campaigns for a bit, but I just couldn't care about my empires. I let my R:TW collect dust on some self from there on... Until I found EB. Challenge, realism, historicity, atmosphere and fun were again to be had. Without EB, R:TW wouldn't had been worth the money I put in it. If only diplomacy and AI were moddable...

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Originally Posted by The General

If only diplomacy and AI were moddable...

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This is why EB2, if done properly, could be the game to play for years to come...

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Originally Posted by applebreath

That kind of sentiment is such a cop out and it's why CA will continue to make poor games, they know many will buy them anyways, even if their games are buggy and have a arcade feel to them. I honor them for STW. Maybe even MTW. But after that, once they had a decent rep, all they have done is produced the minimum to make a quick buck. Its been the same story with them since. They produce games that have major bugs and a horrible AI. Everyone is always saying, "It will be so much better with the next patch/game". That's a pipe dream, nothing more.

If they would line their pockets a little less, put more into programming and design, they could make another revolutionary game AND still make much money. Especially with all the possible "free" help/volunteers out there, they should be producing much better than a pretty graphical package.

My 2 cents.



hehehe, :D



Yeah, I do also wish I could play an EB version of BI.

I will still refuse to play vanilla BI though..

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And yet you bought it didn't you? I rest my case here.

I am not saying it is a perfect game, there is no such thing called perfect, they really eem to be losing the path of enjoyement in their games (personal opinion - Epire is beatiful but somehow I had not 1/1000 the pleasure I had with MTW II wich was not as fun as RTW), however this is not the point this tread is asserting. Any game that allows to flourish so many good mods, that is capable to make so many people to work toghether deserves my respect (again, it is my personal opinion)

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Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

I only tried the alex exe, and at first i thought it was very good, very rare ctds, but after awhile the ctds become constant, so i changed back to RTW exe, and im sticking with it for the time being, its working very fine, the ctds arent so save corrupted as in Alex exe. this is from my experience.

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I've never heard of this issue before, anyone else notice this?

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Originally Posted by Leão magno

And yet you bought it didn't you? I rest my case here.

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I bought RTW-gold, which does come with BI. My point was that RTW/games were the last TW games I'll buy unless I need it for a mod.

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Originally Posted by Leão magno

Any game that allows to flourish so many good mods, that is capable to make so many people to work toghether deserves my respect (again, it is my personal opinion)

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Just the fact that so many "huge" mods were created goes to show how worthless RTW is. If it was a "good" game, less mods would have been created and most would be more in the "mini" mod category. Any game will have mods, just look at EB, but those mods are more about fine tuning, rather than a complete overhaul of the original game.

I don't have any respect for "CA" anymore. My respect goes to the mod creators.

I will likely never play Vanilla RTW again after discovering EB, and I agree that there are some major historical inaccuracies in Vanilla. But let's not forget that if there were no Vanilla RTW, there would be no EB. The modders have done an incredible job with EB and other mods, but without the RTW engine there would be nothing for them to mod.

To love EB and then hate vanilla is like loving a band like Greenday and not appreciating the Beatles.

As much as I dislike RTW's ahistorical gameplay, I respect the fact that without it, I wouldn't be here enjoying the greatness of EB. :2thumbsup: