Why Do We Assume That China Want's Global Capitalism To Return To It's Former Glory?

I'm just curious. From a western angle, based on our common sense and the fact that China has done so well these past 20 years it goes without saying that they would want to keep the system alive. This jives with our understanding of the "inevitable progress" of neo-liberalism, but what about Chinese ideology? Are we sure that their progress in changing a pure command economy into a hybrid system is pragmatic and progressive Or is it possible that they did so for ideological reasons? Arguably, according to many Maoists and Marxists, Communism failed not because the concept was flawed, but rather because the principles were poorly implemented and Capitalist economies actively undermined it.

What better way to fight fire with fire than to enter the economy, put unnatural weight in an area and blow out the system. Think of China as sugar in a suburban's gas tank. At first the tank believes it is being refilled with fuel, but once the sugar hits the engine, you throw a rod. Imagine if the person putting sugar into the Suburbans gas tank had a reason to blow out the tank and buy the new Prius that he had wanted since day one.

Just food for thought. I'm not blaming China for our financial collapse, but do you believe that anyone in power to make decisions could be a proponent of this approach? Who actually knows much about Hu anyway?

I always think of the words "capitalism will bring about the means of its own destruction" when thinking of China.

I would not surprise me in the slightest if the chinese leadership is working their way to a position where they are able to topple the US economy. China is slowly buying their way into the US economy... What will happen when they own enough to bring it all down? I doubt they'll do anything, but it could happen...

The problem with that conspiracy theory, is of course that the current chinese leadership remain in power precisely because they have been able to vastly improve the lives of their population. Should that progress stop there are likely to be serious revolts, and you can only kill so many protesters...

China's major strength the amount of hold its debt has over USA also its biggest weakness. Remember even countries default on there borrowings true it would be a major hiccup to the world financial system but being the buggest consumer nation of finished products we would just all have to deal with it.

China lends not to undermine us but because they must the must ensure stability of there rather numerous people.

If Chinese stop lending like they have and start instead spending even more on themselves than they have there competive advantage would be negated eventually, but more importantly there biggest customer would have no money to buy cheezy poofs an face pods an I-boxes etc

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I always think of the words "capitalism will bring about the means of its own destruction" when thinking of China.

I would not surprise me in the slightest if the chinese leadership is working their way to a position where they are able to topple the US economy. China is slowly buying their way into the US economy... What will happen when they own enough to bring it all down? I doubt they'll do anything, but it could happen...

The problem with that conspiracy theory, is of course that the current chinese leadership remain in power precisely because they have been able to vastly improve the lives of their population. Should that progress stop there are likely to be serious revolts, and you can only kill so many protesters...

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How many protesters?

No seriosly, what is the number?

Remeber that this is a regime where the leaders has absolute power (since birth or so), and all they ever heard is what they want to hear.

Are they gifted? Some of them yes, but most men are just common men...

Thus, never EVER underestimate what a nation can do out of idiocy, just have a look at the search for WMD in Iraq or the hunt for Bin Laden in Afghanistan.

China is no better.

If the world had really melted down even worse than it did as was feared it would then China would probably be in the middle of some major unrest in rural areas right now as unemployed workers were forced back to there parents villages. China's leaders sleep very uneasily at night

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

How many protesters?

No seriosly, what is the number?

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I don't know, but the soviet union apparently hit that magic number...

Buying American means buying Overpopulationstan. Always.

The Chinese leadership is always most concerned about internal unrest, as that is what has brought down Chinese governments in the past. So any threats to their grip on power are first priority. And keeping the people happy by keeping economic growth high so their standard of living improves is their main aim at the moment. While they might not like the US all that much, they need them as they are currently highly dependant on them for their own economic growth. So they buy US govt bonds so the US can buy stuff from them, and thus keep their people employed. A strange state of affairs indeed.

A big economic slowdown in its main export markets (US & Europe) slowed the economy to a mere 8% growth or so, but there were still huge job losses - and therefore unhappy people. So they spent an enormous amount of money to prop the economy up and try to increase domestic spending. I don't think they particularly want to change the world economic system all that much, but they want to try and change the Chinese economy to be more consumer driven and less construction and export oriented.

Even before the current slowdown there were an increasing number of protests mass incidents (a million or so per year from memory) over everything from unemployment, government corruption, illegal land grabs, pollution, abducted children, unpaid wages, the list goes on and on. So the government has no choice but to keep the economy growing. I bet the politburo were extremely worried when things started to really tank last year, but they will be happy now. China is now viewed as being much more influential (good for ego and propaganda), and since its economy has remained strong its relative economic strength has improved.

If it all goes wrong (as will eventually happen at some stage - nothing lasts forever) they might try and use their newly minted military to do something stupid in order to whip up nationalistic feeling in order to stay in power...

Do they want it to return to its former state?
I don't think so

This is the ultimate economic experiment. If China can spur internal (effective) demand sufficiently, they accomplish all they need. Given the size of the market created, the outside world becomes superfluous.

Along the way there will be boom and busts; its the nature of the beast. The political elite entrench and become the economic elite; like anywhere else...they have the means to enrich themselves and will do so, legitimized by the very freedoms they extend.

In the end, it won't be the return of global capitalism as it was...nor will it be the return of China to what it was.

We live in interesting times :party3:

Where is Cao Cao when you need him, huh?