Timurid strategy if your playing England.

Just throwing out a strat to defeat Timurid invasion.They will approach from the east in very large numbers.I am playing England and have learned that engaging Timurid elephant cavalry in open field full frontal is pointless,their artillery obliterates all units before they even start to charge. So her's my strat:
1.On the map identify your most eastern settlement front.This may consist of 6-10 settlements.Purchase wall upgrades and cannon towers for all those settlements identified.
2.Place a full army of 14 heavy infantry ,1 trebuchet (for its cow carcass flinging ability) and 5 longbowmen.
The Timurid armies mostly assault in pairs and so normally an army at the front and back or side.
3.Place longbowmen on walls beside gate house supported by heavy infantry on the walls.Place heavy infantry on all the front walls in order to operate cannon towers.
4.Place 3 heavy infantry units on the walls facing the other attacking army.This allows the cannon towers to be operated if an attack is initiated and causes significant losses for timurid cavalry but most of the time they just hang back.
5.The army at the front gates including elephant artillery is now literally hammered by cannon tower fire and longbowmen arrows.Any attack by ladders or siege towers is easily thwarted by heavy infantry on gaurd mode positioned on the walls.The elephants eventually rout and cause havoc running about.This army is obliterated taking very few casualities at the walls.
6.The army at the rear or side has probably comprimised your walls but thats ok because its not open field.Timurid elephant artillery requires lots of space to function optimally so take them on in the streets within the settlement. Their numbers will have been reduced by previous cannon tower fire. and its difficult to loose.Timurid infantry is not great,they rout easily.If an attack is not initiated wait out for the battle timer.Do not go outside your walls,let them initiate the attack if they do not attack then wait out the battle timer the victory will still be yours.
6.Ensure a plan is in place to resupply settlements with heavy infantry units and longbowmen.

The above strat renders the elephant artillery units useless and Timurid armies are scrappy fighters (attacking routing and reattacking) and so this reduces the movement and risk to your units in open field.In this case a good defense is far better than attack.Since the timurid armies attack in pairs their armies can be reduced significantly.I have noticed after a good few victories that their numbers reduce significantly.This now allows more freedom of movement about the map and also as their attacks are thinning they're rear is left unsupported i.e very small forces are kept in the citadels behind them(send spies). This allows the citadels to be taken easily and thus reducing the Timurids aility to make war.Once the citadels are in control the citeis will fall easily enough as the Timurid attacks get thinner and thinner.Remember every settlement you take must be kitted out with wall upgrades and cannon towers.Resupply your army after every siege battle and repair your walls.

That was basically my strategy playing as England. However, I used the trebuchets (I used 2) with the ammo set to flaming. Eventually you'd get a hit on an elephant, and that would cause a rampage and wiping out most of the infantry and possibly even another elephant or two.

I played the game for 3 years, but i still never faced the mighty Timurids yet, because usually i took all provinces far bfore turn 160. But this time i will be patient and wait. (im in 120 now)

I am planning to face these elephants with Polish Serpentine and Grand Cannon. I dont know they will be effective or not.
Wish me luck!

Yeah, rushing has its pluses, but you miss out on a lot of entertaining features of the game that don't show up until later (like the Tims).

Interesting!Let me know how you get on.

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

Yeah, rushing has its pluses, but you miss out on a lot of entertaining features of the game that don't show up until later (like the Tims).

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Actually i struggled alot to not to attack, but somehow they defeating so quickly, even in RetrofitMod. But even their smallest cities are becoming Large City, thats a nice plus of waiting.

Vlad1,
I am in Turn 140+, struggling with black plague. Lots of my cities has the best gunshops, so im planning to train gunpowder weapon stacks. Wait for the news.

Yesugey,
Lots of firepower from artillery has its merits but I would suggest supporting heavy artillery with lots of infantry.Timurid elephant cavalry are lethal because their main advantage in open field is not the charge but range.They just dont obliterate they obliterate from a distance, so whatever heavy artillery you decide to use make sure these weapons have better range otherwise you will have to close the distance and will suffer heavy losses in doing so.Weapon accuracy is also a variable you have no control over and the enemy can change position easily forcing you to reissue target orders,this takes time and so does reloading.Test armies on the custom battle option in the game before deploying in the field.My attack method is not open warfare but to assess the amount of coastal timurid settlements.Use navy fleet to drop a siege force literally at the gate and lay siege immiediatly.This method ensures you do not have to move around the map and when you do arrive at their front gate you have a full army, rarely have I come across a settlement with a full army within.Taking any coastal Timurid cities will hurt them any city taken is an income you gain and they loose.I build armies behind my frontline as its safe to move them to ships.Timurid navy is plentiful but not one of their strongest assets.Any conflicts I have encountered with Timurid navy has been sucessful at least 80% of the time.In summary a good strong frontline,dissolve their military might through sucessful siege defence and attack by building armies in safety behind your frontline and delivering these armies directly to their coastal cities via navy fleet.Disolve their military strength at your frontline and attack their coastal cities when you take the city purchase wall upgrades and cannon towers they will never take it back! Resupply coastal cities via navy fleet also.Good luck!

So i will probably lose? Cool, i like to lose few battles, which makes the game intresting again.

Sadly, im still in turn 142. I am playing Call of Duty MW2 also, sounds like a betrayal isnt it ^^

Cool, Timurids appeared in Turn 146. I fought only one battle against them, i was in citadel and they just keep bombing the undestructable walls, so i won. My Grand Bombard & Serpentine stack moves toward to them, we will see whats gonna happen on open field soon.

Uhm.. They kicked my butt, as i expected. But i didnt overwhelmed by elephants, because i was have nothing but cannons anyway.

Soon i will try to fight with Arqebusiers & cannons. Since my ShogunTW days i like to train modern musketeers, against savages with bows and arrows.

Unless you use autoresolve fighting the Timurids with musketeers is about as hopeless as using peasants. They have poor range, accuracy, armor, and morale. You'd be much better using hobilars that have been upgraded.

As England you should have Hospitallers. Just use them and some fast light cavalry such as Alan or even Hobilars to attack Timuird huge cannons (and trebuchets of the Mongols) with just rockets and elephant artillery they will be hard pressed to breach your walls. Use archers which can shoot flaming arrows to burn the towers and to get elephants to run amok. The cannon towers are wicked. I don't see how even 4 Timurid armies could take a citadel with cannon towers and some decent defenders.

The Timurids always seem to go for Antioch (usually) or Kiev (about one third of the time in my experience). If you just let them take one for their home and destroy or damage any buildings that would be helpful for them, they will spread out and you can recapture the cities. If they just have the one then they will go into horde status and try and retake the city that they just lost. They will wear out rather quickly.

The easiest way I have found to beat the Mongols and the Timurids is to play as Spain (or Portugal just as well) and have several stacks composed entirely of Jinetes with mediocre generals. It is much easier if the Jinetes all have gold chevrons and some upgraded armor, but just level 0 will work - you will just need to fight a few more losing battles.

Jinetes will take out elephants so fast that if you are not watching the action constantly you will miss them being wiped out. The only faster way to kill elephants is to have them charge into a wall of Scots Noble Pikemen. The Jinetes won't cause the elephants to run amok so you do lose some fun in that respect. I am very unskilled at using Jinetes or horse archers, but had no trouble just by setting them to immediately sweep around to attack the elephants. Now even though it will look like you killed all four units of elephants, if you lose the battle, some will come back, but not many. Jinetes are fast and chase down routers also that you can entirely destroy Timurid armies in a single battle at times. You can use some Knights of Santiago or other advanced cavalry in the center to occupy the Timurids attention but they will be obliterated often because they refuse to retreat fast enough (for me) and get caught in melee. It is fun to watch them charge into the archers and halbadiers though.

For the last year and a half I mostly just play the game so that I can fight the Mongols and Timurids in various ways. You will notice that the Timurids men are all only level 6 chevroned and I believe the Mongols are all level 9 so without the elephants they really do not put up quite as good a fight.

One very strange thing that I have noticed is that the elephant artillery never seems to breach a gate or wall. I have used mercenary elephant artillery to breach gates so I know that it is possible, but I have had them just sit close to my gate and never breach anything! Has anyone had a different experience?

Unless you use auto resolve fighting the Timurids with musketeers is about as hopeless as using peasants. They have poor range, accuracy, armor, and morale. You'd be much better using Hobilars that have been upgraded.

As England you should have Hospitallers. Just use them and some fast light cavalry such as Alan or even Hobilars to attack Timuird huge cannons (and trebuchets of the Mongols) with just rockets and elephant artillery they will be hard pressed to breach your walls. Use archers which can shoot flaming arrows to burn the towers and to get elephants to run amok. The cannon towers are wicked. I don't see how even 4 Timurid armies could take a citadel with cannon towers and some decent defenders.

The Timurids always seem to go for Antioch (usually) or Kiev (about one third of the time in my experience). If you just let them take one for their home and destroy or damage any buildings that would be helpful for them, they will spread out and you can recapture the cities. If they just have the one then they will go into horde status and try and retake the city that they just lost. They will wear out rather quickly.

The easiest way I have found to beat the Mongols and the Timurids is to play as Spain (or Portugal just as well) and have several stacks composed entirely of Jinetes with mediocre generals. It is much easier if the Jinetes all have gold chevrons and some upgraded armor, but just level 0 will work - you will just need to fight a few more losing battles.

Jinetes will take out elephants so fast that if you are not watching the action constantly you will miss them being wiped out. The only faster way to kill elephants is to have them charge into a wall of Scots Noble Pikemen. The Jinetes won't cause the elephants to run amok so you do lose some fun in that respect. I am very unskilled at using Jinetes or horse archers, but had no trouble just by setting them to immediately sweep around to attack the elephants. Now even though it will look like you killed all four units of elephants, if you lose the battle, some will come back, but not many. Jinetes are fast and chase down routers also that you can entirely destroy Timurid armies in a single battle at times. You can use some Knights of Santiago or other advanced cavalry in the center to occupy the Timurids attention but they will be obliterated often because they refuse to retreat fast enough (for me) and get caught in melee. It is fun to watch them charge into the archers and halbadiers though.

For the last year and a half I mostly just play the game so that I can fight the Mongols and Timurids in various ways. You will notice that the Timurids men are all only level 6 chevroned and I believe the Mongols are all level 9 so without the elephants they really do not put up quite as good a fight.

One very strange thing that I have noticed is that the elephant artillery never seems to breach a gate or wall. I have used mercenary elephant artillery to breach gates so I know that it is possible, but I have had them just sit close to my gate and never breach anything! Has anyone had a different experience?

I apologize for getting off subject, but at my age my mind wanders. Actually, it always has.:dizzy2:

It makes you drivel as well (hence the double post) :clown:

Yes I would agree,typical siege tactics for the timurids is that now and again they turn up to a siege with no siege equipment.They just hang back waiting for you to come outside your walls.But I don't ,so they blast sections of the walls to breach them.The elephants charge at the breach but a few units of English heavy infantry supported by Cavalry will literally destroy them, but only at the breach.My observations are that Timurid elephants perform optimally in open field but they do not perform well in breaches or the streets of a settlement.Breaches are actually a great tactic in defeating Timurid armies.My attitude is that if Timurids show up to a siege with no siege equipment and they want my settlement,then they'll have to work for it ,lack of siege equipment forces Timurids to engage first,this draws them in, they're history after that.

One other thing of note is that sometimes the horde factions will attack with 3 or even 4 armies! If you are the English and in a city, I would put your odds of winning at zero. I have successfully defended such but only as the Scots with very many high grade pikemen whose secondary weapon had been removed so that they could not drop their pikes. The only way to have a chance would for you to have eliminated their field artillery, except for the elephant cannons and the rockets, which cause few if any breaches in huge walls. And, of course you must have cannon towers. I never have had success using flaming Trebuchets but have had some with archers setting towers on fire and frightening the elephants.

I've just got to 45 provinces as England (with a big chunk of the middle east) so it's a perfect situation to try a few strategies agains the Timurids.

If I get any interesting new results I'll let you all know

i found flaming round from the trebuchet work wonders. it cause the elephant to run amok.

Just to give a quick update so far,I have driven the Timurids eastwards taking lots of their settlements and citadels.I have tried raising armies and moving them in pairs to attack.One army had 20 culverins and the other 10 heavy cavalry and 10 heavy infantry.I attacked a timurid army with both armies and was annilated on auto resolve even with 2 substantial armies,one of their armies is worth at least 3 of mine!So I'm staying behind the walls and taking settlements using spies and oppurtunity.

Well, my bsttle against them is almost over, they got only 1 stack left. One stack of them destroyed while tried to take Yerevan, but 10 stack destroyed on open field, with cannons.

I had fun with these battles, their scary elephants, horse archers and archers mostly dont prefer to charge, so they are good bait for cannons.

Cannos and serpentines are valuable with their long range but i found ribault is also very efective on them. And flaming mangonels are always effective, much better than trebuchets.

I will wipr out the remaining Timurids with some cavalry and focus on invasion of Americas. I just put my feet on the continent,and i am really curious about whats gonna happen: So far i found only few small villages guarding by few worthless native peasants. Are there any mighty armies in americas?

Aaaah, i finally defeated Timurids without so much trouble, but I encountered with Aztec armies and i terrible suffered!

You know main advantage of savage armies are their frightening warriors, and my armoured, powerful stacks just run away from them without a fight! True shock for me! Aztecs are indeed bigger trouble than Timurids.

My strategy:

1 - Identify which city they're going to hit

2 - Quickly gift it to the Pope

3 - Let him worry about it

My strat for hitting the timurids (as russia):-

They move very slowly in order to keep their stacks together.

This gives you lots of time to feed fullstacks into what will be a long campaign of harrasment until they get from the east side of the map to one of the central steppe towns.

Find a suitable target, like a halfstack that has only one fullstack adjacent to it, and attack it with 2-3 fullstacks.

You may still lose the battle, but you will have taken most of a stack with you.

Rinse and repeat.

I didn't finish this before I won the game, but I did take a couple of stacks down and they had only moved about 1/3 of the distance across the steppes, and I had a constant flow of money and soldiers for more stacks.

This only works if you have money and land !

I would suggest trying to hold a bridge against them. Deploy stakes as usual and position heavy infantry behind them. Bring along some artillery, something long ranged, but also a balista and catapult.

When the battle begins your archers should retreat a bit. I find the elephants open fire and do not approach the bridge at once. I return fire with cannons more in hope than expectation. The elphants are unaffected by your stakes, but the heavy cavaly are and will happily skewer themselves and those that get through will hit your infantry line. It should not be too hard to take out the general (if he has avoided the stakes) which will reduce the moral of the army.

When the elephants approach its time to target them with your outdated seige equipment - flaming bolts from a balista are accurate and devastating. The catapult will take out scores of the enemy crowded on the bridge with each shot that hits.

Completely different in open field of course - the balista and catapult would be shot to pieces by horse and foot archers before coming into range of the elephants.

I have heard great things about javlins against the elephants, but have never managed the tactics in a battle against a Timurid starting stack. Polish nobles and the like carry very few missiles so one has to turn off the fire at will and I find that they get shredded on the journey round the enemy flank by the hordes of archers.

A town with cannon towers is very hard on any attackers if you can provoke the Timurids to attack one.

The mercenary elephant units are helpful too if you can get some. Fighting fire with fire and all that.

My biggest problem with Mongols and Timurids is that with several stacks so close the battles get swamped with units and the frame rate goes to a crawl. This despite having a powerful recently built machine that plays Shogun 2 with all options maxed.

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Originally Posted by Nelson

My biggest problem with Mongols and Timurids is that with several stacks so close the battles get swamped with units and the frame rate goes to a crawl. This despite having a powerful recently built machine that plays Shogun 2 with all options maxed.

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I have heard it said that this is because M2TW is not able to utilize multiple processor cores. So it uses just one of your cores which is obviously much less processing power than your machine has as a whole.

Retinue Longbowmen on huge stone walls and Armoured Sworsmen at the gates.

I, England destroyed timurids faction today...:D...am happy that I crushed their faction not only making them flee...:D

Blast - they come back!