The AI Diplomatic Madness
I could find nothing while searching this forum on what the Team intend to do about the AI madness.
So I beseech thee, most virtuous of modders; please hear our prayers for an AI that makes more sense.
Yes, I am aware that it is hardcoded, but as the one in Vanilla RTW is (slightly) more sensible then that of EB (at least it makes peace with you sometimes), it most be possible to tweak it somehow (seeing as you effectively did so in EB).
The AI's madness is putting me off my EB TBH, so tell me that you will do what you can to tweak it...
Thank you.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
TBH, MTW2 diplomacy is already way better than that of RTW, but i doubt they can tweak it much further. Isn't it hardcoded?
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Don't keep your hopes to high. I rather expect more AI problems than in RTW.
If you look for a really improved AI, you should perhaps consider trying other games, TW is rather all about candy look and effects.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Macilrille
So I beseech thee, most virtuous of modders; please hear our prayers for an AI that makes more sense.
Yes, I am aware that it is hardcoded, but as the one in Vanilla RTW is (slightly) more sensible then that of EB (at least it makes peace with you sometimes), it most be possible to tweak it somehow (seeing as you effectively did so in EB).
Nope, did not happen. Personal experience is not a good swap for cold hard facts. The AI in EB is the exact same as in RTW. It may be that other changes in the mod made it more likey for certain scenarios to present themselves during the cause of a campaign that would limit the peace-making tendencies of AI factions. But this is not the same as tweaking the AI. If the rules are "if a, then war" and "if b, then sometimes war", and EB makes "a" more likely, we have not tweaked the AI.
The AI is tweakable in MTW2 to some extent, however, and we will certainly endeavour to make appropriate changes where possible. Currently that is not important, as we do not even have a game for us to test the AI out in. All work is on getting the basic structure for EBII. Balancing will occur after.
Foot
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
MIITW diplomacy is better at avoiding war than RTW. I wouldnt say its a lot better in other areas however. You can keep a strong and seemingly unbreakable alliance if you have marriage ties and are the same religion as the target faction. Crusades were a nice diplomatic feature as well, that could put you and your mates at war with a common enemy of a different religion.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Foot, thanks :balloon2: for you.
Well, yes, what I meant was that some changes somewhere else in EB had made the AI more berserk and whether you knew what etc and would/could change it.
Anyway, I am but a mere Ma in History- not a skinner or anything else useful, but if you can use me, poke me and I shall do what I can.
Who is doing the Swébôz BTW?
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
From what I recall, the intially released Medieval 2 AI was just as bad (and in some cases even MORE insane, I wrote up a big piece about it) than that of RTW, however the modders out there have gotten it under pretty decent control in regard to both diplomacy and strategy. It's still painfully obvious that the game system was never intended for a map with more options than that of the Shogun/Medieval's "Risk" style maps, but it's far more playable now.
IMO the reason EB get's the "totally insane" AI comments is the "VH" campaign difficulty recommendation. It behaves less rabidly (though still not "smart") on Hard IMO.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cambyses
MIITW diplomacy is better at avoiding war than RTW. I wouldnt say its a lot better in other areas however. You can keep a strong and seemingly unbreakable alliance if you have marriage ties and are the same religion as the target faction. Crusades were a nice diplomatic feature as well, that could put you and your mates at war with a common enemy of a different religion.
No... Its even worse...
In MWII you can at of course scare the AI by having all your towns and castles neighbouring them heavily guarded, but as soon as there is any reachable settlement without much garrison they atack. Im playing Kingdoms at the moment and WOW I am getting backstabed more than I ever did in Rome... (At least it feels like that^^)
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
I dunno man. Ive played several MIITW campaigns, especially with Stainless Steel, where Ive been marriage allied to a bordering faction from turn 1 and never gone to war with them the whole time. Vanilla, well I only played it once, I wouldnt know.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Stainless Steel has very nice diplo AI. Actually the diplo AI in MIITW is not bad, its just that the combat AI is totally terminal.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
antisocialmunky
Stainless Steel has very nice diplo AI. Actually the diplo AI in MIITW is not bad, its just that the combat AI is totally terminal.
Better not to mention their army compositions.I have been constantly attacked by FMs commanding 3 peasant units and two catapults.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mlc82
From what I recall, the intially released Medieval 2 AI was just as bad (and in some cases even MORE insane, I wrote up a big piece about it) than that of RTW, however the modders out there have gotten it under pretty decent control in regard to both diplomacy and strategy. It's still painfully obvious that the game system was never intended for a map with more options than that of the Shogun/Medieval's "Risk" style maps, but it's far more playable now.
IMO the reason EB get's the "totally insane" AI comments is the "VH" campaign difficulty recommendation. It behaves less rabidly (though still not "smart") on Hard IMO.
I have played four campaigns on M/M to test your theory- or rather my own similar- and in 3½ of these the AI was as insane, it was in fact exactly the same.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
The AI is the biggest problem with total war games. Seriously, even if the game name is 'total war' I don't expect to be in atleats 3 small wars every friggin turn. I'd rather much have one epic, long war against one faction, or complete peace. It gets annoying having to defend a single settlement against a small army every turn, totally kills the scale. The AI is definitely messed up in everything except E:TW, but that's broken in other areas. The vanilla AI is not acceptable, it kills all immersion. Think about it, don't you want allies in the game? Like one nation giving you military help, communication, etc? Actual negotiatians like in real life, instead of you vs. the world?
And I'd say give E:TW a mod, but CA hardcoded it or something to make it difficult for modders. They need a boycott or something, they're killing their own games.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
I always thought the campaign AI in M2TW was ok, certainly far far better that in RTW where it would seem to never accept a ceasefire unless you no longer borderd them.
The other benifit of M2TW is that you can see how much a faction likes you which allows for better management of diplomacy.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobbin
I always thought the campaign AI in M2TW was ok, certainly far far better that in RTW where it would seem to never accept a ceasefire unless you no longer borderd them.
The other benifit of M2TW is that you can see how much a faction likes you which allows for better management of diplomacy.
Given, it's much, much better than Rome, but that's just the diplomatic ai. The war ai is more or less the same as Rome's, where factions attack you for barely any reason other than you border them or you have a weak defended settlement.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
I find the AI in M2 to be more agreeable in Rome.
The Roman factions hate certain factions, and even if you make a ceasefire with one, they'll just turn around and break it anyway.
If you're a Roman faction, you're locked into war with most of your neighbours, and your 'allies' often do patently little to help you.
If you're anyone near Rome, you're locked into war with three Roman factions, and usualy can't afford to spare troops if another nation backstabs you.
In M2, as a Euro nation, I usually only get attacked if I leave myself wide open, and only once by an ally. Plus if a Catholic nation attacks another, especially unprovoked, they risk Excommunication, which can turn the tables, especially if the Pope sanctions a Crusade.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
I found the AI in EBI was on much better behavior when I changed the script for win conditions. Doesn't help the AI directly, but it does give it clearer objectives that go more along with historical accuracy. The full thread is here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86313
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cowrecked
I found the AI in EBI was on much better behavior when I changed the script for win conditions. Doesn't help the AI directly, but it does give it clearer objectives that go more along with historical accuracy. The full thread is here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86313
Welcome to .org cowrecked.
I have also been using the win conditions but it does not make any significant improvement to the diplomacy from my experience. I wouldn't say it helps the AI too much to expand historicaly correct either.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
IDK if this is just a coincidence, but military access treaties seem to make the AI a little less kooky. My Romani game has me allied with Aedui for over 30 years even with a border and low city garrisons. But, then again, the rebel-guarded Alps are the only way for them to get to me, other than attacking my fort on the bridge near Massalia, which the "fortophobic" AI never seems to do.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fraoula
Welcome to .org cowrecked.
I have also been using the win conditions but it does not make any significant improvement to the diplomacy from my experience. I wouldn't say it helps the AI too much to expand historicaly correct either.
Doesn't those changes just work properly when useing the BI exe?
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=637
Have you seen this mod? They really tweaked the AI: especially the Battle AI, which is now immensely better, as you can in the video in someone's sig.
It just goes to show that the AI in M2 can be modded quite successfully, and it would be great to see EB2 with AI like this.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AncientFanTR
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=637
Have you seen this mod? They really tweaked the AI: especially the Battle AI, which is now immensely better, as you can in the video in someone's sig.
It just goes to show that the AI in M2 can be modded quite successfully, and it would be great to see EB2 with AI like this.
Interesting link.
Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
Yep, spending hours of playing Broken Crescent finally gave me a kind of insight towards the AI (even on VH), M2TW alliance works much better and there was less backstabbing, and generally more friendly.....
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Re: The AI Diplomatic Madness
can AI be modded in MTW2?
according to this http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=637 it seems to be the case.
