Urban Cohorts

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03-06-2010, 00:00
anubis88

Urban Cohorts

I remember that the inclusion of this units was mocked by many, saying it's just a stupid vannilla adition, like the Arcani. I read a book about the Roman Principate, and to my surprise the Cohorts were mentioned a few times. In the book it says that they had a lot of power in Rome as a quasi-military force, of 4 cohorts of 500 men (i think). It says that even though they didn't have nearly as much power as the Pretorian guard, that they did call some shots in Imperial Rome.

Any thoughts?
03-06-2010, 01:50
Atilius

Re: Urban Cohorts

The major silliness factor was due to the fact that the RTW urban cohorts were exceptionally powerful, when in fact they were just a police force. Besides, they were so few in number and so late in the time period that they really don't belong.
03-06-2010, 06:28
antisocialmunky

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Roman Principate

Meh, super garrison unit 200 turns into the game is.... great?
03-06-2010, 08:04
vartan

Re: Urban Cohorts

Cohortes urbanae don't seem to have played much of a role outside of Rome, except as stationed in Lyon and Carthage (policing I presume). Source states that those non-Roman police units I just mentioned above seem to be superior to the Numidian police but inferior to the Roman police. They are compared to the Praetorians. The two didn't have the same function, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had similarities.
03-06-2010, 10:03
Cute Wolf

Re: Urban Cohorts

did you suggest the XGM-styled Urban "militia legionary" cohort was right :wink:

I misuse them rather extensively :grin:
03-06-2010, 14:15
anubis88

Re: Urban Cohorts

Yeah, i know they were used late in the game and not a large number, i was just confused because people mocked their inclusion and not their stats
03-06-2010, 19:22
Intranetusa

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis88

Yeah, i know they were used late in the game and not a large number, i was just confused because people mocked their inclusion and not their stats

Both their inclusion and stats are to be mocked.

1. They're a police-force/firefighters, so they wouldn't have gone around on the battle field fighting battles. There is no point in including a type of unit that didn't actually fight battles, and whose main purpose had nothing to do with fighting battles.

2. They're a police-force/firefighters or at best, considered para-millitary, so their stats should've been weaker than that of regular soldiers. They didn't perform combat drills or combat trainning to the extent actual soldiers would've, so it's ridiculous for RTW vanilla to show them as a powerful unit.
03-06-2010, 19:40
vartan

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

2. They're a police-force/firefighters or at best, considered para-millitary, so their stats should've been weaker than that of regular soldiers. They didn't perform combat drills or combat trainning to the extent actual soldiers would've, so it's ridiculous for RTW vanilla to show them as a powerful unit.

Should be comparable to Praetorian Guard. Whether or not they should have been a part of the game is up for debate. I say let them be in game, because the game wasn't meant to reproduce history. The whole point of the game is to allow the user to write history. To create one's own history, irrelevant of what really happened. If the user wants to be historical, let him place his cohortes urbanae in Rome, Lyon (Gaul), and Carthage. If he wants to be ahistorical, he shall place them on the battlefield. Simple as.
03-06-2010, 21:21
Megas Methuselah

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by vartan

Should be comparable to Praetorian Guard. Whether or not they should have been a part of the game is up for debate. I say let them be in game, because the game wasn't meant to reproduce history. The whole point of the game is to allow the user to write history. To create one's own history, irrelevant of what really happened. If the user wants to be historical, let him place his cohortes urbanae in Rome, Lyon (Gaul), and Carthage. If he wants to be ahistorical, he shall place them on the battlefield. Simple as.

lol
03-07-2010, 01:30
bobbin

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Both their inclusion and stats are to be mocked.

1. They're a police-force/firefighters, so they wouldn't have gone around on the battle field fighting battles. There is no point in including a type of unit that didn't actually fight battles, and whose main purpose had nothing to do with fighting battles.

Actually that was the job of the Vigiles (who are in EB btw), the Cohortes urbanae dealt with more serious disorder like riots.
03-07-2010, 01:42
seienchin

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

lol

Interesting point of you... I might say one of the finest spamming that ever happend in this forum ;)
Anyway, I agree with vartan. :)
If you wanna roleplay: please! If wanna go just build the mightiest unhistorical empire just do so by having lots of city cohorts in Vannila or a army only composed of cataphracts or other medieval style heavy lancers in EB.
03-07-2010, 02:42
vartan

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by seienchin

Interesting point of you... I might say one of the finest spamming that ever happend in this forum ;)
Anyway, I agree with vartan. :)
If you wanna roleplay: please! If wanna go just build the mightiest unhistorical empire just do so by having lots of city cohorts in Vannila or a army only composed of cataphracts or other medieval style heavy lancers in EB.

The one-word reply by Megas, admittedly, has given me the most inspiration I have received ever on these forums. Megas has truly inspired me to a level unforeseen in my world. Thanks to bobbin for pointing out the differential in the expectations of vigiles and cohortes urbanae. AFAIK the ranks of the vigiles came from freed slaves, correct? As for urbanae, I can't help but wonder...what percent of them were indeed Roman citizens? I guess we can never know the true answer (I don't know of a primary Roman source that points to the answer). Very interesting topic, though. I'd give a balloon to my dear Megas but I'm all out of balloons =(
03-07-2010, 03:24
Intranetusa

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by vartan

Should be comparable to Praetorian Guard. Whether or not they should have been a part of the game is up for debate. I say let them be in game, because the game wasn't meant to reproduce history. The whole point of the game is to allow the user to write history. To create one's own history, irrelevant of what really happened. If the user wants to be historical, let him place his cohortes urbanae in Rome, Lyon (Gaul), and Carthage. If he wants to be ahistorical, he shall place them on the battlefield. Simple as.

aye, but since they weren't actually combat units and mainly just heavy-paramilitary police...I thought their equipment wouldn't be on the same level as regular soldiers or praetorians....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbin

Actually that was the job of the Vigiles (who are in EB btw), the Cohortes urbanae dealt with more serious disorder like riots.

whoops, my bad. Yep it was the Vigiles.
03-07-2010, 05:03
vartan

Re: Urban Cohorts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

aye, but since they weren't actually combat units and mainly just heavy-paramilitary police...I thought their equipment wouldn't be on the same level as regular soldiers or praetorians....?

I suppose things aren't always what they seem (or what you would expect) =/
03-10-2010, 17:54
Duguntz

Re: Urban Cohorts

True actually, we all shall be amazed in the grace and spirituality of Megas's comment. Though I wonder if the words chosen, literarly speaking, aren't too eloquent, as not everybody here benefited of advenced gramatical classes. I might say : Sirano de Bergerac can go home, megas shall be our ultimate poetical inspiration!