About the Battle Statistics, 2 HP unit in historical portayal in RTW unit statistics

Ok, I post this in EB forum since the EB unit statistics is based on the deep researh about realistic fighting style and combat mechanics... a lot of excellent discussion had been there explaining in depth combat comparison, and yes, I know that only some nudist got 2 HP in official EB EDU.

By the way, I want to ask about how to portay some kind of unit comparison, let's said 2 type of longswordsmen, and their historical representation as well.

The first unit, say that was "faction A feudal swordsmen", is recorded on historical sources being armoured, more numerous, relatively affordable, but in recorded frontal battle with the second unit, they are often lost against them.

The second unit, say that was "faction B feudal swordsmen", is recorded on historical sources being wearing minimal armour, and often fought unarmoured, got decent martial arts training, but comparatively fewer in number than the first unit. Of course, they got several mentioning that in frontal combat against first unit, they almost always win, except when hopelessly outnumbered in 12 : 1.

And when I come to their statistics, let's said, being capable swordsmen, and wearing leather armour without helmet, the "faction A feudal swordsmen" is 100 men per unit, had 11 attack, 9 charge, 0.225 lethality, 6 armour, 13 skill, 3 shield value, and decent morale of 11,normal, trained.

and because of that historical portayal, let's say, I made the "faction B feudal swordsmen", is 80 men per unit with 2 HP, had 13 attack, 11 charge, 0.225 lethality, 1 armour, 15 skill, 3 shield value, and good morale of 13,disciplined, trained. of course they have price/upkeep that sightly higher than the first unit, to represent that they are harder to recruit.

The problem is... someone points out that 2HP units are quite overpowered, and suggest me to raise their defense skill and made them into 1 HP unit, but in custom battle tests, the second unit, always defeated in frontal combat against the first unit...

can someone helps to shed a light on this confusion? thanks :bow:

Well 2HP basically means you have to kill them twice. Raising the defensive skill of the unit in exchange for 1HP would make units such as Gaesatae realistically vulnerable to missiles, but still a PAIN to defeat in close combat.

Nusantara work?

yupz, since our statistical man (sonic) are away for some times... and several units that spring out from historical research need to be rebalanced.

BTW, I actually want them to become two HP, and doesn't mind about their toughness against arrows since the "faction B feudal swordsmen" are reputedly brave to charges against hail of arrows, and comes in victorious ways (I know historical records maybe exgreggated this way, but that was no other sources that said the contrary). But the problem is, in the previous unit balancements made by Sonic, he didn't put any units on 2 HP except foot bodyguards, berserkers, and certain crack elites (yeah, the faction B feudal swordsmen was regulars)

I'd be happy to come up with a balanced statting system for you guys. I think you're well aware of my statting work, Wolf...

Feel free to take a peek to XC balance as well, the EDU has the whole system explained in the file itself and works pretty nicely most of the time

@ Gamegeek:
thanks for the offer, but Sonic allready balanced everything in Melayu, Sriwijayan (south sumateran culture) and Javanese unit rooster... and what is left is some newly concepted sundanese units...
and what is your opinion about 2 HP regular units? wlesamana allready said that 2 HP will made cavalry charges gimp, but that was better than getting your "supposed to be good" units slaughtered by peasant arrows (and we did have tons of 120 men (on large), archery units since bamboo bows are easy and cheap to made), and RTW didn't have a good way to represent "dodging/agility", so as he suggested, we should made non elite archery units far less accurate instead.

@ Zarax:
Yeah, I know that 2 HP system in XC is good to emulate infantry dominated battle... but about the cavalry charging things.....

That would be XGM, not XC

Ouch, soory (always think that XC is a submod of XGM :wall:)

It used to be, while the looks are still similar it plays pretty different now.

ok, everyone, I'll ask something rather silly but a real historical portayal headache....

What will you do if you must portay "Elephant Bodyguards?" because when I test it... with proper vanilla traits stacking randomly in course of campaign (I try that by changed Sassanid Bodyguards to elephants in BI), the Bodyguards of my leader grows into twice the size of Elephant cohort... :wall: so while the default bodyguards are 12 men on elephants, they quickly grow into 60 men on elephants.....

IIRC minimum size is 6, it might also help reducing influence and personal security traits.

Max damage in the RTW engine is 1 so it takes atleast 2 attacks to take down a 2HP unit. It is handy when dealing with cav comes up.