SB 1070 Or The Arizona Immigration Bill

Ok Gentleman what's the vedict?

Once again Arizona misses the point and decides to attack the people rather than the institutions.

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It requires police officers, “when practicable,” to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and to verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.

It also makes it a state crime — a misdemeanor — to not carry immigration papers. In addition, it allows people to sue local government or agencies if they believe federal or state immigration law is not being enforced.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us...s/24immig.html


How will that be enforced? I DONT HAVE THESE PAPERS WHERE DO I GET THESE PAPERS.

Right now I'm leaning toward draconian law sprung by a nice new surge of nativism but Im willing to have my mind changed/

Does this mean everybody's got to start carrying around their birth certificates?

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Does this mean everybody's got to start carrying around their birth certificates?

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IDK, My parents nor my grandparents have these things.....Does this mean I have to go back to Europe? :sad:

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Originally Posted by NYT article

While police demands of documents are common on subways, highways and in public places in some countries, including France, Arizona is the first state to demand that immigrants meet federal requirements to carry identity documents legitimizing their presence on American soil.

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I think Arizona is just tired of the Feds not enforcing the law. Much of the bill echoes current federal legislation, except Arizona cannot deport illegals. So they will hand them over to the INS when they find them, and from the sounds of it, INS is not going to accept them. Carrying papers is already required.

i hate illegal immigration such a sticky topic. im not sure how you condone something with ILLEGAL in its name, dont know if this is the way to go about it though.

It came about because the Feds are hardly doing anything.

However, having police question people they suspect may be immigrants is a surefire way for discrimination and civil rights abuse.

CR

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

IDK, My parents nor my grandparents have these things.....Does this mean I have to go back to Europe? :sad:

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Does this mean if I ever visit Phoenix, that I'll get deported to Mexico? :anxious:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

Does this mean if I ever visit Phoenix, that I'll get deported to Mexico? :anxious:

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Depends on your accent. ~;) No, the State of Arizona cannot deport anyone.

This is currently the best documentary on how the Feds deal with illegals.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

IDK, My parents nor my grandparents have these things.....Does this mean I have to go back to Europe? :sad:

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Well, you could carry your passport instead.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, you could carry your passport instead.

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Not to fear. Impending non-amnesty amnesty legislation at the federal level will take care of this.

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One Arizona congressman called for businesses to boycott his own state, and a Catholic cardinal said the state may be encouraging "German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques" as pushback against Arizona's proposed crackdown on illegal immigrants went into high gear Tuesday.

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How very irresponsible. They are testing the boundaries of what is still democratic. Shameless and dangerous. Sheer sedition. Treason.

:beam:

Good for Arizona. Too bad they can't dump them back over the border where they belong. How far we've sunk when both political parties are in paralysis out of fear of the Mexicans.... :no:

These people have no real understanding of how a civil society functions and it shows back home. Mexico can proudly boast of being the only non-first world nation in North America. They’ll become nothing more than Democratic block voters if they are given amnesty, and we already have one minority that specializes in that. :rolleyes:

Ver are ze papers?

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

They’ll become nothing more than Democratic block voters if they are given amnesty, and we already have one minority that specializes in that. :rolleyes:

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Yes, it's the government's duty to prevent the influx of the French and other minority democratic block voters.

And strike, I've got a rusty, old boat nice sofa you can sleep on when they send you back here. :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Good for Arizona. Too bad they can't dump them back over the border where they belong. How far we've sunk when both political parties are in paralysis out of fear of the Mexicans.... :no:

These people have no real understanding of how a civil society functions and it shows back home. Mexico can proudly boast of being the only non-first world nation in North America. They’ll become nothing more than Democratic block voters if they are given amnesty, and we already have one minority that specializes in that. :rolleyes:

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Fear of the Mexicans? No it's more like taking a sledgehammer to a broken arm.

We need to attack the buisness that hire illegals and stop giving them social services that they don't pay into. Frankly I really don't care if they are here when they can't get a job and can't suck of the system. I guran got dang tee you they will leave in droves.

How this law will not alienate Arizonas sizeable latino pop is beyond me. ESP when it lends itself so eaisly to discrimination. Either check everyones papers or no ones papers

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, you could carry your passport instead.

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I'm an American, I don't have one.

The only country worth visiting was Mexico and up until a little while ago you didn't need a passport for that.

Now I'm stuck paying market price for tequlia, perscription drugs, and donkey shows.

sounds alot like the ID-duty in europe where you must carry at all times your ID papers.

I'm gonna go ahead and provoke a Godwin by noting that it's a lot of fun to yell, "SHOW US YOUR PAPERS!" in a German accent. The louder you yell it, the more fun you're having.

Für Husar!


This German Nazi is America's future!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9gW45eVdBI

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I'm gonna go ahead and provoke a Godwin by noting that it's a lot of fun to yell, "SHOW US YOUR PAPERS!" in a German accent. The louder you yell it, the more fun you're having.

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See Strike's signature.

And thanks Louis! :laugh4:

1. Remove the jobs from the market -- no new laws required, just enforce existing. Needs people power.

2. Close the traffic in illegals across our border with Mexico -- needs new materials and people power.

3. De-criminalize drugs and tax it like any other import.

4. Inform Mexico that they are responsible for their citizens and their citizens general welfare. Farming out the responsibility and cost to us so as to obviate the need for Mexico to provide whatever support is deemed appropriate for their own citizens out of their own budget is no longer acceptable. If they want the rights and benefits of citizens of the USA, then they should petition for statehood (by regions).

5. Increase the number of legal immigrants.

6. Create a useful system for temporary work visas that doesn't require papal intercession to function quickly.


Arizona's law, however well intended, is likely to be too flawed in execution not to be struck down.

We already carry ID on us almost constantly.

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Originally Posted by drone

I think Arizona is just tired of the Feds not enforcing the law. Much of the bill echoes current federal legislation, except Arizona cannot deport illegals. So they will hand them over to the INS when they find them, and from the sounds of it, INS is not going to accept them. Carrying papers is already required.

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I think that's worth reiterating.
Carrying papers is already required.
As drone points out, much of this is already federal law- it's just mandating that state law enforcement enforces the law since the federal government seems unwilling or unable to do so.

As it was presented, there were some ominous sounding provisions in the bill- but once you look past the overheated rhetoric, it doesn't really seem to bad. I say let it play out.

Nothing in the bill warrants the "Nazi" "eugenic" and other vitrolic adjectives I've heard used here. But for the record, I agree with Strike: Cure the ill, not the symptom.

I'm in a new phase of political analysis these days. I shed my idealism very late in life (I'll be 40 sometime soon, and I've come to this unveiling in the past year). I finally accepted that all elected officials are salesman, and they frequently change product lines. This whole debate is about 1) Jon Kyl driving wedge issues in Arizona and 2) Harry Reid needs to get reelected. You have two guys vying for an office, and not necessarily the same one, you have "an issue". That's it. No principles, no real ideology. Just simple opportunism and reelection politics.

Politics in America today is best described by the Bard:

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Originally Posted by Billy S

........ it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

[About passports]

I'm an American, I don't have one.

The only country worth visiting was Mexico and up until a little while ago you didn't need a passport for that.

Now I'm stuck paying market price for tequlia, perscription drugs, and donkey shows.

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Would be fun if it wasnt so true. The % of americans having visited another country is... Diminutive to say the least.


About the Arizona immigration bill... I find it logical.

I think we have the same rule in Sweden. Of course, if you are white you wont be asked by the police to show your papers. And if you speak an OK swedish you wont either.

Basicly, this is just a tool to make it easier for the police to catch the REAL illegal immigrants... If legal immigrants have to have some paper with them, who cares? They choose to immigrate! If they dont like it, go back.

I do not quite understand the backlash... You think the police will randomly hold up some white mother of 3, ask for her papers, and if she cant show them they will send her to mexico? Or what?

Hehehe, I just received this email from a friend:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".

Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...





You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
What are you waiting for? Pass it on.

Illegal immigrants need to get in line and go through the same process as the legal ones. Seamus has some good ideas on stemming the tide, but unfortunately re-election politics gets in the way. Welcome back Don! I feel your cynicism.

I don't understand why screening and risk stratification are such taboo words. Medics do it all the time, as do vast number of other industries. We do it as it aids efficiency.

No one likes crime, but better the police randomly ask people if they did it than employ any methods that will target the greatest amount of crime with the least amount of resources in both time and money.

~:smoking:

S/Jon Kyl/J.D. Hayworth. Sorry for the confusion.

Why is the profiling a big deal? Because you're impeding the registration process of the new wing of the Democratic party. Seriously. There's no overriding principle here... illegal immigrants want the right to keep on breaking the law, and Democrats want them to be able to do so they can rack up their votes. It's that simple.

@Lemur thanks man, but I've been lurking. Just finished my masters finally. :-) And when did you get to be such a racist? :-p

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Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito

I am a moderator who just got an email, and I will copy it here without any sources what so ever

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*golf clap*

Would you mind backing it up with some, say, evidence? Statistics? Articles?

Whatever that isnt a ctrl-c of a mass-sent spam mail?

Don't get me wrong, I am very much against immigration... However, that also means I am against STUPID arguments/people/proof not backed up by evidence against immigration, as it hurts my cause.

An extra golden star as it was a mod who posted the ****.

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Originally Posted by Strike

Fear of the Mexicans? No it's more like taking a sledgehammer to a broken arm.

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The Democrats are drooling over the prospect of amnesty and millions of new little Democratos. They would never do anything to jeopardize that, regardless of the damage it does to the country.

The Republicans understand that Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in the nation, and if they were to vote in block for the Democrats along with other minorities it would force the GOP into permanent minority status and regional power. They know amnesty is coming, so they think they have to fight for the Mexicans while placating their anti-immigration base. That equates to some minor rhetoric against immigration with no real action - witness the presidency of George W. Bush.

What the Republicans don't realize is that they've already lost the Mexicans, so they might as well take a stand for what's right and let the cards fall where they may. Maybe they can pick up more white voters as the Democrats increasingly pander to the minorities. As we've seen, our lovely leader doesn't have any qualms about injecting race into the political dialogue and pitting one ethnic group against another.

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Originally Posted by Politico

The Democratic National Committee this morning released this clip of the president rallying the troops, if rather coolly, for 2010. Obama's express goal: "reconnecting" with the voters who voted for the first time in 2008, but who may not plan to vote in the lower-profile Congressional elections this year.

Obama speaks with unusual demographic frankness about his coalition in his appeal to "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."

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So yes, everyone fears the Mexicans. They will be the game-changers in future elections.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

*golf clap*

Would you mind backing it up with some, say, evidence? Statistics? Articles?

Whatever that isnt a ctrl-c of a mass-sent spam mail?

Don't get me wrong, I am very much against immigration... However, that also means I am against STUPID arguments/people/proof not backed up by evidence against immigration, as it hurts my cause.

An extra golden star as it was a mod who posted the ****.

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He wasn't writing a thesis, and I don't think he posted it as solid evidence of anything. It's just a hypothetical situation that highlights some of the inequalities in our system.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Why is the profiling a big deal? Because you're impeding the registration process of the new wing of the Democratic party. Seriously. There's no overriding principle here... illegal immigrants want the right to keep on breaking the law, and Democrats want them to be able to do so they can rack up their votes. It's that simple.

@Lemur thanks man, but I've been lurking. Just finished my masters finally. :-) And when did you get to be such a racist? :-p

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So its not because there are two types of hispanics, the legal and the illegal and that random fishing for the latter will result in harassment of the former?