A two month ban? Where did that come from?

First of all, don’t bother reading this if you dont have an interest in backroom moderation. This post might be quite long.

So, I just recieved a two month ban. Let us have a quick look at my 3 latest bouts with the moderation staff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ModeratorXXX

Dear Kadagar_AV,

You have received an infraction at The Guild.

Reason: Minor
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Deliberate thread bumping to avoid a lock applied to a previously controversial topic, and then inviting members to re-initiate the flame war.
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This infraction is worth 1 point(s).

Original Post:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2502371

Quote:

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Bumping this for fun :)

Cross-read with the Israeli-murder-spree-on-international-waters-thread for a laugh...

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When I logged on to be met by this I must admit I was quite flabbergasted. To be frank, I had no idea what the moderator talked about. Reading up in the backroom, I did find the answer, somewhat. One of the threads I suggested should be cross-read had been locked.

However, the thread was locked AFTER I bumped this thread. In other words, the accusation that I would have bumped this other thread to “avoid the lock and re-initiate the flame war” must be seen as void. In a PM to above moderator, I did point out this issue of timing, asking him to have a look at the time of the lock compared to my post.

Might also be noted that I in NO WAY participated in the flame war in this other thread, so as to why I would have liked to re-initiate it, I have no idea. I also told the moderator this.

The reply I got was:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ModeratorXXX

Hello Kadagar_AV

You are quite right on the timing issue and I apologise for alleging that you used the thread to avoid the lock.

However, resurrecting the thread was, regardless of the timing, an attempt to widen the arguments raging in the Israel thread. Looking at what you wrote, there can be no other conclusion than that you were trolling for responses. Your infraction point stands for the trolling.

Regards

XXX

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Why do I bring this up? Well, I must say that I think most of the org staff does a splendid job, this Moderator XXX however has over the years done quite a few decisions that I seriosly question.

With him, it feels like he makes up the rules as he goes. This of course makes it very hard for me not to break the rules, when they are made up on a whim.

Have another look at these PMs from him, though the reason for the infraction was completely invalid, the infraction still stood because the post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2502371

Quote:

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Bumping this for fun :)

Cross-read with the Israeli-murder-spree-on-international-waters-thread for a laugh...

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[/QUOTE]

Somehow was trolling?

I did not attack anyone, I did not make a statement. I think the post was, well, very harmless? Worth a warning, mmmmmmaybe. I do not see the reason for a warning, but if some Mod objects, I guess he could make one.

But then again, I must say that many signs has lead me to believe that this Moderator is after me for personal reasons more than anything else.

So, next bout with the Moderation staff?

Quote:

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Dear Kadagar_AV,

You have received a warning at The Guild.

Reason:
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PM

Bad show Kadagar. "Religious and less educated" would have been a bit snide, but probably within bounds.

Phrasing it as you did ties the two together and is thereby insulting to those of us who are religious. Since this may have been an oversight operating as you are in a non-native language, I will simply warn you.

Be careful good sir.

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Now this is how I imagine Moderation should be made. Short, to the point, understanding and very clear as of the matter. Also forgiving unless repeated.

I learnt the lesson, agreed with the moderators point, and moved on.

Must I say that this was from someone else than Moderator XXX? I have never had a problem with this moderator, at all.



Now, as to the matter of the reason for the ban:

I had two PMs waiting when I logged in:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ModeratorXXX

Dear Kadagar_AV,

You have received an infraction at The Guild.

Reason: Minor
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However snide you make your comment and then try to disavow any intention, your post is intended both to insult and to provoke.
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This infraction is worth 1 point(s).

Original Post:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2505345

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MemberYYY

Yeah its annoying hosa I agree. So was malcolm x. But the point remains that they do have a reason for the actions.

As for this entire study its so........ like duh. A heterosexual couple adopting or using fertilization processes should be the only comparable factor to the gay couples not billy joe and leeann in 10th grade. So to be perfectly honest this means jack **** to me. We all knew this beforehand no one thinks homosexuals can't love, lol.

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Using asterisks much are we?

As I usually say to toddlers and less brained when trying to teach them - use your words. I am of course not implying you would be less brained.

As to the claim that We all knew this beforhand - as you said Billy Joe and Leeann might not. Not really arguing your point, just saying that those people are out there, and they have a political impact. Sometimes more of a political impact than one would wish. And yes, you could change Billy Joe to Jimmy Håkansson (or whatever national country bumpkin name).

And as a PS: Try and diminish the use of lol when you support me, it diminishes my point.

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Was I snide? Sure.

I have had a small bout with a certain member the past weeks or so. When it started, I at once sent the member this PM:

Quote:

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Cease fire?
*waves a white flag*

I really do not have anything against you. Sometimes I see your posts as a tad juvenile, but god knows I have been younger too.

On that note, I admit I have been overly sarcastic towards you, to an sometimes insulting degree.

Kiss and make friends?

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I will not post his reply, mainly because it includes words that would not be permitted here. Rest assured though that it was not very friendly.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, I would like to have it noted that I absolutely had no intention to antagonize anyone on a personal level.

It was only after him attacking me one a personal level in multiple threads that my snide comments towards him started.

Now, I 100% agree that the snide comments did not contribute to a comfortable backroom atmosphere.

I was a bit fed up with this user, and let it show in my posts. I always however refrained from using bad language, and I tried to stay on topic. Breaking the backroom rules was thus very much NOT intentional.

But as I have noted before, not breaking the rules are hard when they are made up on a whim.

Now, if this mod would have WARNED me, I would not have had a problem with it. I would have adjusted my posting accordingly, and moved on.

Second post to meet me as I logged on?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdministratorXXX

Hello Kadagar_AV,

your recent conduct in Backroom discussions had the Backroom moderating staff come to the conclusion that it would be best to give you a two month time out from the Backroom.

Your posting style has become irritatingly anagonistic over the past weeks and it seems that you go out of your way just to drop snide remarks and make more or less veiled personal attacks - some leading to infractions, some close to it but certainly caustic enough to let tensions spill over to multiple threads.

I can only speculate about your motivation for this behaviour, but ultimately we can and will only consider what we see and that is the fact that your current attitude towards other patrons is neither appropriate nor is it acceptable in the Backroom.

XXX

:bow:

(cc: Backroom staff)

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I got a bit flabbergasted at this point. A two month ban without prior warning?

I could have understood a two month ban if I, say, had been warned, or got infractions, and then still repeated the behaviour. Now, that would, in my book, be fair.

However, to simultaneosly tell me what the problem is and give me a two month ban doesnt really give me much chance to correct my behaviour, does it?

Had the PM about my snide remarks came a week ago, and I would have continued them, I could fully understand a two month ban.

However, given I had not broken (as I know) the backroom rules, it seems very strange indeed to be judged so harshly.

Of course, a two month ban might well be issued if, say, the poster did something MAJOR.

But I think anyone reading this will see that my “snide” remarks could have been dealt with with a friendly warning as soon as they started. I also think no one would deem my post as MAJOR. Not even the mod I believe has a personal grudge towards me, he himself labeled the infraction as minor.

Would I have been a mod, I would have asked both sides to step down. I would gladly have accepted that. Bear in mind, I was only snide because I had a lot of juvenile posting directed at me (you know the type: “you ******” LOL”).



Why do I care?

Often having loads of time at night at my work, I have come to like the backroom and the people who hang there.

I must say though, if this is the level of moderation, I dont really see a reason to continue hanging there.

As I said, I have noticed how it seems one mod has a grudge, as his PMs are usually questionable, to say the least. I have had no problem what so ever with any other mod.

And this two month ban? I will leave it to the reader to make up their own mind. :help:

You might as well have noted that ModeratorXXX is me.

Your removal from the Backroom is based on a continuous history of trolling and provocation. If you review your own long and stellar infraction history with any degree of self-awareness, you would understand this. However, you seem unable or unwilling to understand the effect your posts have on the community of the Backroom. The long time-out was considered by all the BR staff and seemed appropriate in the hope you will review your posting style if you wish to return to the community - since admonitions have not worked. It is especially tiresome that you enjoy dancing around the edges of the letter of the rules whilst clearly breaking their spirit. As you have noticed, I'm a spirit kind of chap.

You are just the latest in a fairly long list of aggrieved rules lawyers that nurse the belief that I have a grudge against them. Feel free to take comfort in that illusion. It is the constructive and polite members of the Backroom that actually occupy my thoughts.

Have to be honest Khadgar_AV, you regularly provoke and give snide comments, even when you attempt to "lessen them" by sticking a smilie on, which just looks condescending and not at all, like a tease.

For example, you would reply with things like "Would be best to keep your thoughts to yourself. :wink:". The smilie in this instance isn't a tease or attempt to be friendly. It is considered rude.

Examples of this sort of action is done the in the quotes you did, like you randomly attacked a member isn't known for their articulation on that fact, opposed to simply commenting a more poliet

Quote:

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While I appreciate your supporting view, I would prefer you articulate your opinions better as it distracts from the message you are trying to convey.

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While to quote what you said:

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As I usually say to toddlers and less brained when trying to teach them - use your words. I am of course not implying you would be less brained.

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Notice a difference? You could have made your point without having to stoop down to random name calling.

You might have feel hurt or badly done to, I have to admit, it is not a "shock horror" moment, when I was told about it, my first thought was "The infractions must have caught up with him".

While I will admit, you sometimes make some very good contributions to the backroom, perhaps when you return, you would lighten up a little, and we can all get together, sit in a circle and sing kumbaya.

Quote:

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I will not post his reply, mainly because it includes words that would not be permitted here. Rest assured though that it was not very friendly.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, I would like to have it noted that I absolutely had no intention to antagonize anyone on a personal level.

It was only after him attacking me one a personal level in multiple threads that my snide comments towards him started.

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Are you prepared for a rebuttal? If you want to make claims of that like let us first present the evidence.

Response to initial PM

Quote:

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I got an infraction, I don't feel like dealing with your crap. What do you want me to apologise for being athletic

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This doesn't seem to have anything that is particularly vulgar? Unless you refer to the word crap, which could be construed as to what I have had to deal with from you of late. True it was not particularly friendly but at the moment I was not in the mood to forgive you.

Note* I edited post a bit i misspelled "being" and "don't" in the initial writing.

To which you then replied,

Quote:

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That was not exactly my point.

Re-read and come again mate :)

PS: Oh, and infractions... not a biggie. 3 and you are out for some time. You lose one per month or so.

I dont know what you got the infraction for, but follow forum rules and they wont start to stack, I am sure :)

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To which I responded.

Quote:

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I've never gotten one before and yes you were insinuating through the use of sarcasm the fact that I value athleticism over mental capabilities and also implied as a result of my particularity for sports that I'm an imbecile

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He may act as though infractions are not a big deal but I like to refrain from receiving said infractions. The post in question did in fact not make direct the claims I am aggrieved over. They were implied however behind a veil of sarcasm.

As to the point I am attacking him......... It was in my knowledge defense if you are simply responding to anothers attacks.

Quote:

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Would I have been a mod, I would have asked both sides to step down. I would gladly have accepted that. Bear in mind, I was only snide because I had a lot of juvenile posting directed at me (you know the type: “you ******” LOL”).

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I would like to point out that I have had to deal with quite a bit of sarcastic and insulting posts regarding everything from my real life extracurricular's, posting style, politics, being juvenile.

In finality i want to add that I understand why I received these warnings and Infractions and for every warning and infraction kadagar received from our squabble that Kadagar received I also received. However, did I complain? No, I did not call foul, however juvenile I may be I accepted my punishment. I must add I did not apologise in the slightest to the mods for my behavior. In fact I wrote a rather heated response to Ser Clegane about how I did not care. (I Do apologise for that).

I would like to add I see the complete futility of the silly little skirmish Kadagar and I have engaged in. I was about to send him a PM regarding my apologies and a agreement to end "hostilities". I would be more than happy to after you return from your ban Kadagar.

Is that it? You should have been around back when Soly was swinging the banstick. The Tavern had a completely different feel to it... more raw, more partisan, and far more exciting! Titans of rhetoric, sarcasm and nuance viciously fought over the day's big issues. Those were the good old days. Today, the atmosphere is far calmer, more subdued, and - some would say - less interesting.

One thing has held true throughout the years, though. You will never win against the moderators (not that I think you should win in this situation). You have no rights, and are only allowed to be in the Backroom at their discretion. They are usually quite benevolent in exercising their power, but make no mistake that it is their power - given directly by the site's owners/administrators - to do with what they will.

I have never seen a mod fall from "grace" other than Soly, and that wasn't for his rather constant abuse of patrons, but for a completely unrelated scandal that caused him not to return.

Hello PanzerJaeger,

What's a scandal and what not, what's abuse and what not is not todays discussion. However, I object the implication that Solypsist fell from grace (in the implied way from site's owners/administrators grace that is).

True, he didn't return, but that has nothing to do with any staff action.

I usually disagree with the mods when I get a warning point, but they have to wade through a lot of sarcasm and could-be offense. Glad I am not in their shoes as it isn't always that straightforward, especially since the average orger is a little bit more refined.

Goodbye ;)


Do I get a warning point for this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TosaInu

Hello PanzerJaeger,

What's a scandal and what not, what's abuse and what not is not todays discussion. However, I object the implication that Solypsist fell from grace (in the implied way from site's owners/administrators grace that is).

True, he didn't return, but that has nothing to do with any staff action.

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I actually meant to imply exactly what you said - that he left of his own volition - which supported my broader point that these kinds of accusations against moderators never amount to anything. I apologize for not being clearer.

Try to not let it affect you too much. You do occasionally make a significant contribution to a thread.

Don't let this totally discourage you. Everyone has some value to add.

BQ, I prefer not to name drop.

To use your own words, if you would have noticed, my long and stellar career in the backroom has led to a lot of changes in my style of posting. I have tried to abide the rules.

However, as you say, you are a "spirit kind of chap". So if you deem the spirit unwelcome... ... ... Anyway, one might have wished the rules would have been more clear, or YOU more friendly (don't really have a problem with most other contacts with mods). I guess that makes me a spirit kind of chap huh? I dont like your moderating skills (or lack there-of).

The infraction I posted above, where I get a infraction for bumping a thread is a prime example. How the hell would anyone see that infraction coming, I just bumped a thread after I noticed it had been mentioned in another thread, to make it easier for people to find it. Didn't insult anyone, didn't even make a stand on the issue. It was one of those times when I could prove with actual dates and times that you were wrong. Did you step down, nah, your personal little e-peen wouldnt suffer that. Instead you just whimsed together some other accusation totally unrelated to what the infraction was about in the first place. Bad style, and def not the first time you have made bad calls on intention.

See, here is my point:

You can read something in a positive way, neutral way, or negative way.

There are examples of forum users, a few comes to mind, who push hard to read things in a positive way. There are also people who do their best do read in a neutral way.

You, however, let your emotions seep through, and often act on what you believe is the intent, and quite often from a negative perspective (specially if you don't like this persons beliefs). You must understand that gets, well, tedious after a while.

So basically, from what I have seen and witnessed, you let your own personal judgement at large cloud your functioning as a mod. I am not impressed. At all. On occasions you have even assaulted members in threads, I have def reacted to some of your posting. Very uncool.

And I know you argue this is a "illusion" from my point, that will stand for you. I have another view of the issue, and that is that you read some members from a positive perspective, and some from a negative. Of course we all do that to some extent, you just happen to be the least controlled.


Beskar, as I said, I didnt enjoy the little forum fight with centurion1 either. Snide comments sure, and it could easily have been resolved. Was I rude, sure, but imagine meeting personal attacks including a whole lot of asterisk's in thread after thread, you would probably also start to get a bit rude after a while. I do not think that you, or anyone else, can accuse me of unprovoked having jumped on members, or?


Fragony, BQ is the only mod I have had issues with. Rest seem to do as OK as can be expected.


Meneldil, probably not. Tata.


Vladimir, 2 months is a long time, and I am sure that by then I will have found something else to occupy my time. Actually, already have, hence my delayed response.


Centurion1, I am not sure your rebuttal actually went against anything I said. Crap might not be seen as vulgar to you, but then, BQ has tried to give me infractions for writing "pubic hair", so I def take no chances. That was however one of those few times some more cognitive side of him came awake and told the rest of his brain he was being silly.

I actually dont think I got any infractions from our squabble, except when they gathered all the close-to infractions into a 2 month ban for some reasons.

Anyway, I am off now, just wanted to assure you I have no ill feelings towards you what so ever. I by far do not consider you an idiot, and never have. We had an issue a night when I was drunk, I tried to stop it ASAP, and after that I have just been slightly tired fighting you on the forums (and I guess it showed).

But I must say, I didnt put any real soul into it, dont know who you are, and from the little I know you seem to be a promising young man :)

So all the best of luck to you :)



Big thanks to TosaInu for putting in the time, has felt like a home for years.

Also big thanks to the backroom, so many strong characters in one place, keep duking it out! Cant really single out anyone, friend or foe (then, I dont really have any foes from my side, even the ones furthest from me politically have been staunch side-kicks in some threads).


So, time for me to bow out of this forum...

*bow*

if it means anything to you Kadagar_AV, i think your "list of flags" is quite impressive regardless. :beam:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

So, time for me to bow out of this forum...

*bow*

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It is not for me to comment on the ban itself.


However, I should like to bid you goodbye.

Take care, thank you for the time shared here with us, and may many a girl receptive to 'skiing lessons' cross your path!

:bow:

More time for hot sauna sex with desperate housewives AND their daughters. Take care.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

More time for hot sauna sex with desperate housewives AND their daughters. Take care.

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Must...visit...Dutchland!

Damn to be honest, despite being opposed to his irrational and hardcore atheism and his promotion of cognitive differences between races, I'm kinda gonna miss Kadagar. He did make the Backroom an interesting place at times. I'd put up with some trolling for that. :juggle2:

He'll be back. They always come back.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

More time for hot sauna sex with desperate housewives AND their daughters. Take care.

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I'm coming to Holland this weekend. I hope I get this treatment AND Holland wins.

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One thing has held true throughout the years, though. You will never win against the moderators (not that I think you should win in this situation). You have no rights, and are only allowed to be in the Backroom at their discretion. They are usually quite benevolent in exercising their power, but make no mistake that it is their power - given directly by the site's owners/administrators - to do with what they will.

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:yes:

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He'll be back. They always come back.

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:yes: