Galatia, yet another case for a new faction part one (proposed introduction)

When Cato the Younger went to visit his client Deiotorus in 66 bc he may have had many things on his mind that had nothing to do with Rome. Did the now hellenized and starting to become romanized Galatians who worship Cybele really come all the way from long haired Gaul and did they really practice Human Sacrifice? How dependable could the people of his client really be when they deserted Mithradates at the first opportunity and provided Lucullus with his cavalry to fight their former dominators? Was it right for he Cato the stoic who took stances that were so ahead of his times even other philosophers found him excentric to have a client who's own father or maybe even of the records had himself shed blood on behalf of the man who killed 80,000 Romani? He could also have been thinking what Augustus thought, that maybe in light of the tendency of some conquered people to rise again it could be a good idea to tie them to Rome with more than just a patron, didn't the Socii of Italy need more? Besides he like everyone else saw the Dying Gaul and must have known that after Antiochus the Savior had destroyed a massive Galatian army with the intention of conquering Asia Minor they had simply pulled another one out of thin air to try the same thing again, this time being stopped only by the brilliance of Attalus Soter.

Maybe most alarming to him would be the fact that the Galatians then turned around and determined that the very man who defeated them could give them favor and sided with him against the Greek Black Sea Colonies. Although this was not against Rome, Cato must have known about the villainy of Carthage, returning from defeat to challenge Rome again not long after, and then trying to win Rome's favor when they suffered another defeat, perhaps that is why an expedition was sent against Galatia in 186, but then again why is it Galatia had not just become another socii or province? Why was he visiting a client in a state that had only recently betrayed a different master? Fortunately Cato the Younger was not the man his ancestor was, his daughter was amongst the most educated people in Rome and he didn't believe in the destruction of people just because they might in a hundred years rise again, so the client was safe from the patron, although some survivals of Galatia's barbarian past must have made Cato think about this.

Galatia like Bithynia, Pontus and others lost any independence with the Third Mithradatic War, however at least Deiotorus benefited from his connection and his lands increased.

How Deiotorus must have wished that Attalus had lost his life at the river Caïcus when he found himself indebted to an arrogant Roman who considered himself a philosopher yet let his family run wild, and his wife to act as a prostitute.

But maybe you could do better with your chance? The year is 272, those around yous till must pay the Galatia Tax, your feared forces are unmatched and Antiochus Soter can not stop you, or can he? The future is open, will it be enjoying the scraps from the table of Lucullus and Pompey or will you crush your neighbors and and replace the Dying Gaul with the Triumphant Cyble crafted by Greek slaves?

Sources for the introduction (on things that are controversial)

On Cato meeting Deiotorus before Pompey see "Aato the Younger in the East" by Jane Bellemore

On the adoption of Cybele over their own pantheon and merging with native Phrygians see the opposing view "A Celtic Cult and Two Sites in Roman Galatia" by Anderson that concedes the point while emphasizing the cultural survivals

On Pompey giving more lands to Deiotorus but not giving Lesser Armenia see "Lesser Armenia and Galatia after Pompey's Settlement of the East" by Adcock

Part two coming tommorow, I know I didn't entirely make the case with this so far, but we could all agree that the Galatians were at least important for the first 30 years of the Europa Barbarorum time period, and they did not take the results of the River Caïcus lying down, and did determine some important conflicts, not just as mercenaries but as friend and foe to Rome.

Nice effort. Proper citations would be nice, and not too many of us around here care for typo's.

The main point, though, with which we are all dissapointed, is that (IIRC) the Galatians were already axed out as a faction.

I thought EB wasn't recreating history but making your own? Whether a faction after start date historically did or didn't expand shouldn't have to do anything with its inclusion.

My main complaint with this proposal (although it is a valiant effort) is the total lack of archaeological data.

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Originally Posted by Phalanx300

I thought EB wasn't recreating history but making your own? Whether a faction after start date historically did or didn't expand shouldn't have to do anything with its inclusion.

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Then let the semi-nomadic community of of Gadzandahar deep in the Sahara desert be made playable as a faction. Throughout EB's timeframe, they did nothing but cyclically roam from oasis to oasis. But that doesn't matter; with my leadership, they will rule the world. :wiseguy:

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Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

Then let the semi-nomadic community of of Gadzandahar deep in the Sahara desert be made playable as a faction. Throughout EB's timeframe, they did nothing but cyclically roam from oasis to oasis. But that doesn't matter; with my leadership, they will rule the world. :wiseguy:

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Funny :D....

Galatians still had some power but in history didn't focus on expanding. What matters is they still had some power. Just look at Casse, Saba or Koinen Hellenon or even Sweboz. They shouldn't be in either by this logic.

Well Casse aren't in the game anymore, some german tribes must be in the game, hopefully they'll include another one, maybe it is possible with the new government system to implement a kind of "migration and settling" period first and then an expanding one...
For the Koinon: Sparta went through an "hellenisation" process with Areus that allowed him to gain popularity and financial backing, than consider the "reforms/revolution" with Agis and Kleomenes...
I'm one of those people who would rather have a Spartan, Achean or Aetolian faction ^^
Unfortunately I don't know much about arab history :s

Casse are completely remade into the Pritanoi, which is essentially the same. From the looks of it there will be an Lugii faction which are Celto-Germanic I think and the Belgae will probably make it in as well.

Not sure that proces was with Areus, he simply rebelled against the Macedonians(an war but considering Macedons power its more an rebellion). You're right about Agis and Kleomenes but I think they came way later then start of the game. I agree though, having an Spartan, achean or aetolian faction would probably be better.

About Areus I was referring to his propaganda with silver coins...

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Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Casse are completely remade into the Pritanoi, which is essentially the same. From the looks of it there will be an Lugii faction which are Celto-Germanic I think and the Belgae will probably make it in as well.

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If there is even the slightest chance of the Belgae making it I would do everything in my power to help it happen. Up the Ambiani!!!

I think EB team already decided on their selection, but seeing how powerfull the Belgae were I think its quite likely an tribe of them is in. Hoping for the Nervii.

If the Belgae are in it (which I really really hope but highly doubt) I think the Suessiones, Ambiani or Atrebates would make the best choice due to their expansionist nature into Britain. BTW I understand that the notion that the Belgae arrived in Britain is still very contentious but based on the numismatics and historical records it appears one if not all three of these tribes managed to subdue Britain to some extent.

Should part two be about their culture or fighting style? I could do either, and the Galatians were expansionistic early in the EB timeframe, they just spent too much of their resources too quickly in a gamble on rulling through fear of immediate reprisal, which is why I used the suggested introduction pretending there was a Galatian faction to compare their sudden recovery and fielding a second monster army to fight Pergamum after the Selucids defeated them to Rome simply getting another army after Cannae, of course we have to rely on the Greeks word for it that the Galatians had the number and quality of men we think they did, I at least don't know of any scholarly questioning of the account of their defeats by Antiochus or Attalus.

yeah Galatians would be cool, but there are already quite a few factions in minor asia^^

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Originally Posted by seienchin

yeah Galatians would be cool, but there are already quite a few factions in minor asia^^

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As there are in Greece. Too bad that the most powerfull factions are in the same area. Though I gues it will look weird if almost all new factions are in the same area.