-
Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
It is 3.00 a.m here and I cannot sleep (too much adrenaline) - definetely a day off tomorrow... i.e. today. ;)
I will post a detailed report to Tuesday, but some first thoughts right now.
It was exceptional in many ways with numerous factors affecting the voters' choice.
1. The 10th April tragedy gave enormous moral boost to nationalist right ('martyr myth' - completely unreasonable for a person who did nothing else but died in a communication accident, but that is how it goes),
2. Very well constructed and followed campaign gave Law and Justice unexpected number of votes.
3. Center-right Civic Platform chose their candidate earlier and unlike the deceased president and a vice-speaker of the Sejm Szmajdziński he wan't killed in the crash.
4. Civic Platform's campaign was muted and poorly organised.
It would work with 'old' Jarosław Kaczynski, but was inadequate and frankly it was one, huge disaster. Sławomir Nowak was good for 2007 parliamentay elections when prime minister's Tusk victory in a debate, ruthlessness of Law and Justice and massive voters' anger could be exchanged into solid support for currently ruling Civic Platform.
5. Law and Justice and Jaroslaw Kaczynski exploited opportunity given by national mourning to deflect any possible criticism as 'immoral attacks' and created the image of Jarosław as a 'changed man'. Hiding him from unfriendly media helped a lot.
One might notice how amazing was their ability to exploit anything which people consider sacred and how Mr. Kaczynski and his 'transformation' was scripted and staged.
The theater metaphore is most suitable in this case. 'Old' divisive, annoying, aggressive, insulting Jarosław was concealed and really - everyone likes spectacular changes - from villian to a decent man. So it worked.
6. Public TV and radio are in hands of Law and Justice and Left Democratic Alliance and supported both Mr. Kaczynski and the candidate of the left Grzegorz Napieralski.
According to a study made by Batory Foundation (think-tank) Mr. Komorowski - candidate of the Civic Platfom - ws the only one who was shown in negative way for the whole time.
Because public media were protected by the deceased president, or rather Law and Justice influence in them was protected - so were 'friendly journalists' of the party, for them it was a mortal struggle to save their future and protectors.
Really - they've reached thee level of 1980s communist TV with its stupid manipulations. For example quite recently they've managed to screen news which portraited a short part of a satirical series as a real brutal attack against Jarosław Kaczynski ('I will kill (...) Jarosław' - said a prominent depute from the Civic Platform).
7. Jarosław Kaczynski won the second presidential debate, though the fact that (allegedly) he knew some questions (from a journalist associted with his party) helped him a bit. His victory might discourage some voters to support anybody, especially his opponent.
8. Two floods which devastated a part of Poland transformed into anger against ruling Civic Platform despite unprecedented level of support from Warsaw. Not everywhere, but gave a couple of percent of support.
9. A sizable part of Catholic Church in Poland supported Jarosław Kaczynski starting with the fateful burial at the Wawel which noone is willing to present as his idea now. The decision was widely criticised, but criticism was weakened by prolonged (vulcano eruptions in Iceland) national mourning and floods.
10. Democratic Left Alliance's candidate Napieralski decided not to support anybody in the second turn suggesting tha both candidates are 'equally poor choices'. It was criticised by his opponents with accusations that he is actually betting for Kaczyński's victory which would make himself and his party invaluable in opposing presidential vetoes, but at the cost of infighting for next 5 years.
Mr. Napieralski's fascination with the way how Mr. Kaczynski is controlling his party (virtually single handedly and with no independent voices or opposition, even vocal) is a very well known secret.
11. Holiday season decreased number of votes from larger and smaller towns and cities while other factors boosted support in the countryside - traditional 'bastion' of conservative voters.
12. There were also some local factors e.g. Opener Festival in Gdynia increased the number of votes from this area while support from trade unions given Mr. Kaczynski boosted his position in Lubin-Polkowice and Konin areas in western Poland. Respect and support for left-wing politician Włodzimierz Cimoszewicz resulted in sizable (and abnormal) support for Mr. Komorowski in north-east Poland - the candidate this respected ex-prime minister announced as his personal choice.
13. Mr. Kaczynski's sudden and suprising praise of late comunist first secretary Edward Gierek (who enjoyes some respect from the 1970s which are sometimes described as a golden decade - before the credits he borrowed were spent on consumer goods and the country bankrupted resulting in the rise of Solidarity and the martial law) both might gain votes from post-communist voters and scared off some anti-communist supporters.
To some it was like the ultimate proof that the man cannot be trusted and will do anything, even praise an incompetent politician from authoritarian plitical system.
14. Finally the choice of Mr. Komorowski as a candidate (solid, honourable, but sooo boring) might discourage many younger voters who would vote for Mr. Sikorski - the Foreign Affairs minister of Poland, but the decision was made before 10th April when the now deceased president enjoyed very high place in unpopularity contrests.
Mr. Sikorski however is a very good minister and Poland needs him in 2011 + he still has time and works well with prime minister Donald Tusk.
My main conclusion is - it was a close one, but so favourable situation will never repeat itself so it will mean slow death of Law and Justice.
Kaczynski 'the changed man' act will end because it started falling apart in the last week of the campaign and the public TV will lose protection of 'their' president and election season now.
Situation is not too clear, because Left Democratic Alliance (which Mr. Kaczynski managed to declare as no longer post-communist) might try allying itself with Law and Justice or Law and Justice might not survive this defeat, but the big step was made.
Poland should be ready for delayed big reforms and to finally use its full weight in the EU.
More later, with maps and detailed comentaries.
And big sigh of relief from me. :laugh4:
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
I look forward to your summaries. I confess that my knowledge of Poland is limited (though growing slowly thanks to your efforts and to the growing connection between the Knights of Columbus and Poland.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-election.html
komoroski wins.
from my point of view as a euroeceptic it is a shame, from the point of view of my better half it is probably a good thing seeing as the civic crowd are business friendly and centre right.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Thank you for your lenghty post, Cegorach! It's a privilige to have our own private correspondent in Poland.
Predictably, I am delighted Komorowski has won. Let's hope that your prediction that Law and Justice is done for will prove correct. I love the irony of an alliance between the (former) communists and the Catholics, in light of Polish history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cegorach
Poland should be ready for delayed big reforms and to finally use its full weight in the EU.
Do you mean 'delaying' or 'implementing'? Probably the former, but can you expand a bit on that?
Edit: wait, on second reading I think got it, paraphrased: 'the reforms, which have been delayed, can now be implemented'.
As for Poland in the EU - every new kid on the block has to elbow his way in, creating plenty mutual friction. At some point, however, the dust has settled.
Everybody has always realised that Europe would shift to the East, that Poland in particular is a very large country, catching up economically at a tremendous pace too. A large, free, developed Poland has been as much a source of friction over shifting power as precisely a decades old ambition, and even fullfillment of Europe.
The Polish election map reminds me of the ones from the Ukraine, which has a similar west-east divide. Western, liberal, and, if I may, open and modern, versus eastern reactionary, Catholic, backward, rural, underdeveloped.
https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/...ezydenckie.png
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Louis VI the Fat
The Polish election map reminds me of the ones from the Ukraine, which has a similar west-east divide. Western, liberal, and, if I may, open and modern, versus eastern reactionary, Catholic, backward, rural, underdeveloped.
https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/...ezydenckie.png
That prob has a fair bit to do with a quick view of a topographic map than any supposed superiority of the average western pole, the west has more arable land hence more wealth plus more development due to an accident of imperialism and lastly more urban areas over 15000 people.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
I'm also grateful for the post cegorach. I don't know enough about Poland's politics to comment myself, but it makes for an interesting read.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gaelic cowboy
That prob has a fair bit to do with a quick view of a topographic map than any supposed superiority of the average western pole, the west has more arable land hence more wealth plus more development due to an accident of imperialism and lastly more urban areas over 15000 people.
Another dose of "city mouse - country mouse" then. I'm beginning to think that all other political metrics are a waste of space.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Later today I will quickly review what all registered candidates (10 of them) represented and deal with the problem how each region voted.
There will be also something how Poles in the world voted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Louis VI the Fat
Thank you for your lenghty post, Cegorach! It's a privilige to have our own private correspondent in Poland.
No problem Louis, I was literally living with the elections in mind for the lest few weeks. Time for a jubilation.
Quote:
As for Poland in the EU - every new kid on the block has to elbow his way in, creating plenty mutual friction. At some point, however, the dust has settled.
Everybody has always realised that Europe would shift to the East, that Poland in particular is a very large country, catching up economically at a tremendous pace too. A large, free, developed Poland has been as much a source of friction over shifting power as precisely a decades old ambition, and even fullfillment of Europe.
Lack of president who treats the government as traitors will certainly help. :)
It is a bit more complicated, but I will write about it in details later today.
About EACH REGION of Poland.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
interesting maps, i believe the G/F's family lives in the small patch to blue to the east of poland.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
I am in no way inpartial when it comes to this subject, but I belive my knowledge is valuable and will answer a numer of questions.
So here it goes. Unfortunatelly it won't be possible to squeeze everything to one post so there will be four.
First and hopefully the second today.
General breakdown
=============
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...h/polska-1.jpg
over 17 million people voted in Poland with about 1 million more chosing Bronisław Komorowski.
The speaker of the Sejm and acting president won in western and northern areas of Poland - Pomerania, Greater Poland, Silesia, Masuria, Kujawy and Lubuskie while leader of Law and Justice Jarosław Kaczyński emerged victorious in Lesser Poland, Kieleckie, Masovia, Lubelskie, Łódzkie, Podlachia and Carpathian regions.
There was a small difference in Masovia where Warsaw in general voted for Komorowski while numerus villages for Kaczyński.
Turnout
55, 31% which is about 5% more than in 2005. Relatively high in Polish standards which is rather sad, but isn't so bad as long as noone contests the results and that never happens.
Noone knows for sure who would receive more votes if it was around 70% or higher, but in general it is assumed that higher turnout favours Civic Platform and similar parties while lower gives advantage to Law and Justice and similar organisations and parties.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ka-turnout.jpg
Slightly more people voted in eastern and southern regions favouring Mr. Kaczyński.
There are three non-political factors which might affect that:
- holiday season meaning that numerous people were away - c. 800 000 of voters voted somewhere else than they are living,
- hours - voting ended on 20.00 which lowers turnout in larger cities (people are often stuck in traffic jams in late hours),
- larger number of people from western Poland works and travells abroad,
Detailed map of elections:
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ach/mapa-1.jpg
In general towns and cities voted for Komorowski, the bigger the city is the more people voteed for this man.
BTW I voted in one of them - over 70% support for Mr. Komorowski.
Older and younger people voted in a similar way with much greater support for Mr. Komorowski from people between 25 and 35.
Minorities generally chose Mr. Komorowski - Germans, Belorussians, Ukrainians as well as protestants or orthodox christians. Minor detail, but affected situation in some regions.
Better educated voters chose Mr. Komorowski with over 60-70% suport from those with higher education.
Women were more likely to chose Mr. Kaczyński - definetely out of sympathy because usually it is the males who are more likely to chose Law and Justice. Not in this case.
There are regional pecularities which will be explained later, but overall it is almost as usual - here results from 2005
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b..._wyborcza2.jpg
As always borders of partitions are still visable. Former 'german Poland' votes Komorowski and voted for Donald Tusk (current PM and leader of Civic Platform) while 'russian and austrian Polands' vote for a Kaczynski.
Why is that?
There are many answers and numerous reasons which will be presented later in this thread.
The simplies and most obvious is that traditional, devout, conservative Poland votes for nationalistic and conservative candidates while western, more open minded, better developed Poland votes for pro-european and left-wing parties.
That is not exactly true.
More accurate answer would be that population density and urbanisation matter more.
Farmlands of eastern Poland are divided into many, smaller communities where people live for generations while western Poland is dominated by towns, especially several large urban centers.
The main factor however would be lack of major investment projects in eastern Poland. Last time it happened it was before the 2nd WW.
Of course it is changing and there are exceptions, for example old, pre-war 'aircraft valley' in Mielec-Rzeszów is once more growing and motorways are finally being built in eastern Poland fllowing a series of legislations signed in most recent years (full credit for that to the ruling Civic Platform).
After all pre-war Poland struggled with even greater difficulties
e.g. illiteracy map
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...illeteracy.png
which often it overcame
But the truth remains - communist period in many ways froze the situation inherited from the partition period.
So stopped changes started in the Interbellum
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ch/prop_49.jpg
It explains why protest movements during the communist period were usually born in western and northern Poland.
Another reason is that western territories seen large influx of displaced people from former eastern Poland (Belorus, Ukraine, Lithuania) who were forced to adapt as well as adventurous, young people willing to risk much to start new life.
In a way western and northern Poland is like Poland's America.
Now the regional peculiarities
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...mapapolski.jpg
1 - KGHM company - copper miners influenced by local trade unions which supported Jarosław Kaczyński.
Interesting that the region is very wealthy, one of richest (per capita) areas in the whole country.
2 - Suwałki
Why those conservative people voted for Mr. Komorowski? The answer is quite amazing - because he is considered one of locals, he owns a house out there so voters supported one of 'their own'.
Another factor is that many people from the are came from Wilno (now Vilnius) after the 2nd WW and Komorowski was received there as an 'old school' nobleman from a historical book.
There is also a small Lithuanian, Tartar and Oldbeliever (Orthodox sect which escaped persecution and moved to Poland in the XVII-XVIIIth centuries) minority.
3 - Easily it might be considered the single place where Jarosław Kaczyński received the smallest number of votes. In a number of districts Mr. Komorowski scored over 90% of support.
Why?
There is a substantial Belorussian and Orthodox minority which for a long time lives in a conflict with self-declared 'true Poles' living only a couple of miles to the north-west.
4 - Bieszczady is sometimes described as the last wilderness of Poland and it attracts tourists as well as excentric people who like local peaceful environment.
It is also one of regions where percetage of better educated people is the highest in the whole country.
I will present more detailed information later. Each region will receive its share.
Over 200 000 Poles living in other countries or those who just spent their holidays at the moment also voted in the elections.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...at-statyst.jpg
As you can see majority chose Mr. Komorowski.
But there were some differences.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...iat-zachod.jpg
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...iat-wschod.jpg
Mr. Kaczyński won in Canada, the USA and Afghanistan.
In the USA he only lost in Los Angeles and Washington DC.
In Chicago he received astounding over 80% of votes.
Why is that?
There are several answers to that question. In Afghanistan soldiers formed the majority of voters and as far as I know many of them feared reforms announced by the Civic Platform.
In the USA and Canada the majority of those who voted is formed by emigrants, who usually came from eastern Poland, escpecially Carpathian region which is definetely the bastion of Law and Justice in Poland.
Their links with Poland are limited to family and some media like state owned, public TV right now controlled by Law and Justice and ultra-nationalist Radio Maryja.
Sad but true.
It is important to remember that Polish community in Northern America is large and only c. 40 000 people were voting in these elections, so a very small part of this community.
A note to myself - avoid visiting Chicago, it looks like another Podkarpackie, only in a city.
More will come later.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
BTW Fascinating situation from a legal point of view.
It looks like from 10th April to the time when the new president will be sworn (August) Poland will have THREE acting presidents:
- Speaker of the Sejm Bronisław Komorowski from 10th April to tomorrow,
- Speaker of the Senat Bogdan Borusewicz from Wednesday to Thursday,
- the new Speaker of the Sejm due to be chosen on Thursday - Grzegorz Schetyna,
Why is that?
1. Simply as a MP Bronisław Komorowski must leave his mandate imediatelly he is formally elected the new head of state thus losing the rights of the Speaker of the Sejm so ceases to be the acting president.
2. Bogdan Borusewicz immediatelly becomes the acting president because the Speaker of the Senat is the next person in line according to the article 131 of the Constitution.
3. Grzegorz Schetyna will be chosen the new Speaker of the Sejm and automaticly he will take the job untill the new president is formally appointed.
So many twists and turns since the tragedy in April and to the state or the economy, to the political system or the administration it means absolutely nothing.
Very smooth transition. Democracy shows its strenghts again and again.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
cheers for the info, interesting read.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Thanks for that cegorach, I know next to nothing about modern Poland, so that was an interesting read. :bow:
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Absolutely fascinating analysis, cegorach. Many thanks. :bow:
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
THanks, but it is not over yet.
I still need to present how and why it want in each region of Poland, write about all ten candidates and their views and present reactions from the world for the choice and my predictions how the results will affect political landscape in Poland.
First part will be the largest and will be ready later today. Right now I cannot find time to prepare it.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Region after region
=================
Since the large administration reform in 1997-8 there are 16 voivodeships, though some of them are relatively small and with little importance while there are several key provinces which are the most important considering the number of voters in these elections.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...h/polska-1.jpg
I will start from north and north-west so basically from teritories where Mr. Komorowski won. I will attempt to describe each province using less conventional information and my personal opinion.
There will be a bit of history, also most recent, but that is difficult to avoid.
So here it goes.
North of Poland can be divided into two major areas - Pomerania and Masuria, the second is basically southern part of the former Eastern Prussia where Masurians, a group of people of Polish ethnicity lived before the war and formed a slight majority as well as territories which were purely German.
There are four voivodeships - Pomorskie (Pomeranian), Zachodniopomorskie (Western Pomerania), Kujawsko-pomorskie and Warmińsko-mazurskie.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...-pomorskie.jpg
Tusk's bastion
=============
Pomeranian province was a part of Poland for larger part of its history. Gdańsk (or Danzig) was the window to the outside world and the mouth of the Vistula is considered Poland's economical throat. Lost in 1308 to the Teutonic Order it became a German city which from 1399 slomly drifted back to Poland's orbit. In 1454 it rebelled and after 13 years of war became an autonomous part of the Kingdom of Poland and later the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Was lost again in 1793 with the second partition and for a short time became a Free City (1807-13) under French protection. In 1918 once morewas established as a Free City recognising Poland's right to have access to the Baltic Sea which proved to be not sufficient to any side - Poland or Germany.
After 1918 because of problems with transit through the Free City during the war against the Soviets a small fishing village and spa located to the north west called Gdingen was turned into a major city and trade center called Gdynia which soon overshadowed Danzig.
Considered the crowning jewel of Poland during the Interbellum it is also one of the youngest towns in the country.
In 1939 Gdynia was occupied after almost full three weeks of fighting (19th September) with commander of the local forces col. Dąbek commiting suicide after ordering the remaining forces to surrender. On 2nd October defences of Hel naval base to the north surrendered.
Occupied Gdynia (renamed Gotenhafen) was ethnically cleansed and together with Polish minority in Danzig was either declared German, expelled to the south or sent to Stutthof death camp.
In 1945 the are after bitter fighting was either liberated (Gdynia) or conquered (Danzig) by the Red Army and a small contingent of Polish troops under Soviet command.
Danzig was later set on fire and looted.
After the war three cities - Gdynia, Danzig and Zoppot formed an entity popularly called Three-city (Trójmieście) - Gdynia, Gdańsk and Sopot.
Famous for shipyards and 1970 and 1980s strikes the region is known as a cradle of the Solidarity movement led by Lech Wałęsa.
From 1989 it is mainly under controll of right-wing parties and mayors with Sopot usually the most liberal and Gdynia in general rather apolitical -local elections are usually won by local association created by mayors of Gdynia - Franciszka Cegielska and after she died Wojciech Szczurek.
The province and the Trójmieście is considered prime minister's Tusk stronghold where Civic Platform wins all elections.
It is also the birthplace of modern liberal movement in Poland - at that time a part of the Solidarity movement.
The three cities are considered one of best governed in the whole Poland.
With this data to remember it is no suprise these elections were won here so decisively by Mr. Komorowski.
Also thanks to the Opener Festival which took place in Gdynia at that time.
Local Law and Justice is in general in disarray and represented by a number of unpopular politicians.
Former president Lech Kaczyński apparently disliked visiting the towns when he was staying a villa in Jurata (wher ehe invited some other heads of state) close to Hel so usually stayed 'fortified' behind a number of security barriers which he considerably improved and expanded.
Left -wing parties are usually playing a part of a junior partner to the Civic Platform or Mr. Szczurek's faction in Gdynia, but it is not too often necessary.
The last interesting fact about it is that ther is a substantial linguistic minority called Kashubians (Kaszubi) with Mr. Tusk one of them, although not everybody knows the language.
Interesting fact is that they were trully absorbed as a part of the greater Polish nation only in the XIXth and early XXth century after germanization campaign launched by Bismarck government which backfired and the success of Gdynia which brough considerable wealth to a part of the local population.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...opomorskie.jpg
From zero to hero
================
Western Pomerania was one of those regions in present Poland which historically had very few links to the country - never really a part of Poland untill 1945.
Stettin (now Szczecin) survived the war without massive destruction while Kołobrzeg in eastern part of the region was conquered after a fierce battle between 1st Polish Army (under Sovet controll) and a variety of defending troops including Frenchmen from SS Division 'Charlemagne'.
Ironically in 1806-7 the town (Kolberg) became a symbol of resistence when the fortress defended against Napoleon's troops for a long time which even Nazi propaganda attempted to exploit later.
After 1945 for decades suffered from poor government and usual thing in communist countries - wasteful economy resulting in massive pollution.
The province was also famous for a number of Soviet bases, including a naval one in Świnoujście to the north of Szczecin; some with secretly kept nuclear weapons.
Local population consists mainly from Poles whose parents came either from central Poland or former eastern Poland. Because of this unusual situation parts of the province seen masive collectivisation of farmlands. Collective farms which bankrupted after 1989 leaving sizable unemployment.
It improved slowly also thanks to tourists attracted by long beaches and local environment which recovered from pollution (amazingly quickly I must add).
Regional capital is without a doubt the city of Szczecin with rivaling with Koszalin in the eastern part of the province. From time to time an idea of a Central Pomeranian voivodeship emerges, but it seems its supporters are dying out slowly.
Szczecin was unlucky to survive a sequence of poor local governments, including that of a former Solidarity legend, but also modern right-wing nationalist populist Jurczyk.
Presently Szczecin is slowly becoming the capital of the whole westernpomeranian region - for both sides of the border. Poles from Szczecin are buying property and investing in depopulated eastern Germany which is cheaper than in Szczecin while a growing number of Germans travells to work in the city.
Zachodniopomorskie is one of those regions which for sure seen a large share of emigration for work to Ireland, the UK and elsewhere.
These facts are important to understand that this relatively poor region became very resistant to slogans preached by the Law and Justice - anti-German propaganda doesn't work when you've see then and see them everyday while a number of failed governments of this political camps left people with bad memories.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ska-kujawy.jpg
Red and black
==============
Kujawsko-pomorskie is a voivodeship formed from southern part of Pomerania along the Vistula and the Noteć.
Historically shared fate of the rest of the province perhaps with two exceptions - a large part of it was annexed in 1772 by Prussia leaving Toruń (Thorn) and Danzig with Poland and Thorn became once more a Polish territory (population was still overwhelmingly German) in 1807 and remained to 1813, oficially to 1815.
The province was formed from two different administrative units - one formed around Bydgoszcz in the west and another around Toruń in the east.
So called 'red' Bydgoszcz because of dull cityscape, its industry and support for left-wing parties and 'black' Toruń due to its medieval architecture, old university (Copernicus!) and devout, pro-clerical population.
Both cities are rather bitter rivals, even now but share power in the province so it should be better now than I've heard about it the last time.
Left-wing SLD (Democratic Left Alliance) lost most of its influence after the armageddon the party experienced after the Rywin-gate corruption scandal and the demise of Leszek Miller's government in 2005 while Torun shifted most of its support towards center-right Civic Platform.
The second fact requires some explanation. Toruń is a place where is the hq of the extremist Radio Maryja and during the period of Kaczyńskis' government it attemoted to strenghtsn its position in the town which resulted in a conflict in local structures of right-wing movement. In the end only radical politicians promoted and supported by Radio Maryja were left in local structures of Law and Justice while those closer to the center left the party or were thrown away and were welcomed by the Civic Platform.
It seems that the center-right party won thanks to this conflict which is also reflected in those elections.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ska-mazury.jpg
Eye to eye with the Bear
================
Warmińsko-mazurskie as a part of Eastern Prussia enjoyed constant relationship with Poland. Western and a part of central areas of the territory called Warmia actually belonged to Poland for four centiries.
This might, just might (much like the entire thing with Imperial Germany vs. Russia and Austria in this discussion) result in considerably lower support for the Nazi NSDAP in German elections in early 1930s given in Warmia compard to the rest of Eastern Prussia.
The province is known for some industry (chemicals), trading through port in Elbląg (which is usually blocked by the Russian side controlling its access to the sea) and especially transborder trade with Kaliningrad enclave and massive numbers of tourists visiting local lakes and forests.
Masuria (Mazury) was one of few tourists destinations in Poland for a long time and remains quite popular which might be in some way reflected in these elections, but 'the tourist effect' shouldn't be overrated.
In a similar way to Kujawsko-pomorskie the region gave substantial support to left-wing parties, but it changed. Local authorities aren't considered too competent, but except quite recent scandal in Olsztyn with mayor demaing sexual favours from female workers (he was sacked in a referendum) I can say rather nothing of value about local politics.
When it comes to the elections neighbourhood and trade with the Russians in Kaliningrad might be important.
It might be also important factor behind protests in the Kaliningrad enclave too, but it is a different subject altogether.
Silesia and Greater Poland in the next post - I need a break and I think somone might be interested in reading this post while I am doing something else. :sweatdrop:
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Excellent. Please keep going as time allows.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Yesterday we had a day of 'three presidents' - there is even a photo somewhere I will post it later - transition was smooth with one incident.
Our boy Grzegorz Napieralski enjoying his 15 minutes of fame - the only registered left-wing candidate - proposed to establish an office of a vice-president...
WTF?
Typical to him - with this example (one of many) you should understand why I think he is laughable.
Anyway, I should be able to write about Greater Poland, Silesia and at least some regions where Jarosław Kaczyński won late today.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Continuing
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...h/polska-1.jpg
Greater Poland
===================
Large and important region of Poland which voted overwhelmingly for Bronisław Komorowski, but in each case the story is slightly different.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...olska-wlkp.jpg
The cradle
=============
Greater Poland - Wielkopolska
Wielkopolska is the oldest part of Poland where the state was born in the IXth century.
Historically it spent almost its entire history in one or another form of a Polish state with two important exception - after the second partition in 1793 was lost to Prussia, partially liberated in 1794, regained in 1806-7 and lost again in 1815. It returned to Poland after the Greater Polish Uprising in 1918-19 which success was confirmed by the treaty of Versailles.
It is often considered one of the best organised, governed and most industrious parts of Poland and certainly this reputation is overrated, but it was gained due to a number of reasons described below. History shaped Greter Poland just like other parts of Poland or any other region on this planet and some traces of past influences (now that was poetry!) are reflected even in those elections.
Wielkopolska was occupied by Prussia for over a century, during that period a different form of political environment was shaped - much different than in 'Russian or Austrian Polands'.
One important thing - Prussian law was hostile, repressive and often petty and stupid, but it was the LAW. Prusian Germany was fanatically legalist so when a law was signed it was obeyed and could be used against the authorities. Unlike in Russia where you could expect everything - from a smile and a form of liberalism to massive hangings or a Cossack intrusion into a church and where every form of even semi-peaceful coexistence was doomed to end sooner or later provoking another bloody uprising; or in uninterested, discouraged, corrupted and in general indefferent Austria in Prussia it could be possible to employ peaceful means of resistance.
Greater Poland has of course its share of uprisings - it fought in 1794, in 1806, in 1848 and in 1918-19 - but after autonomy of so called Grand Duchy of Posen was stripped after the Spring of the Nations and a failed uprising in 1848 the region enjoys a stable period of seven decades of peace.
Unification of Germany, subsequent Bismarck's Kulturkapf launched against Catholics and germanization implemented as a form of state policy was possible to counter through so called 'organic work' - education, all forms of bussiness activity and above else political initiatives.
To describe it in more digestable way - Prussia was Poland's Great Britain - with differences, most likely less lawless than Britain, but certainly was no Russia where one day you get a constitution which will be conveniently forgotten before signatures dry out.
In Greater Poland political activity became essential part of patriotism so the region might claim to have the strongest democratic tradition in modern - i.e. in last two centuries - Poland. Or so some locals are thinking.
Historically it resulted in incredibly high turnout among local Poles during the period under Prussian government - local Germans formed maybe even 40% of the population during some decades, but every time they were outvoted even with quasi-apartheit laws implemented to limit it.
For example a 'gagging law' (Ustawa kagańcowa) from late XIXth century made illegal any public use of Polish during gatherings in areas where ethnic Germans formed at least 40% of the population which meant that there were massive, very large gatherings and marches through such areas where thousand strong crowds would move in utter silence until they've reached the borders of a district where German population was smaller.
In Poznań - the regional capital - such marches often were ending in singing - close enough that the German minority, and especially the lawmakers and police would hear that, but would be unable to do anything to prevent it.
The law is a law after all.
Of course in the end there was enough violence, but success of the local rebellion was almost instant - it was brilliantly organised with very large fighting force created in a time of a few months. Funny but Greter Poland created even its own air force which was third or fourth largest in the world at that time! Their bombers even attacked several German cities, bombers which were earlier bought from German soldiers ironically including some officer named Bismarck...
During the war with the Soviets divisions from Greater Poland were often described as the best equipped, but often treated non-Polish population like enemies and were hesistant to fight with their flanks exposed - a very western european thing I might add which simply is impossible to avoid in the eastern front.
During the Interbellum it was considered the agricultural treasure of Poland, but enjoyed its share of industry (e.g. Hipolit Cegielski concern manufacturing wagons, locomotives and cannons - the last in Rzeszów, in eastern Poland - central at that time) and scientists.
Local mathematicians are famous for breaking the Enigma code in early 1930s. her eis even a nice looking monument in the center of Poznań.
In 1939 the province was abandoned by retreating Army 'Poznań' which later launched the largest Allied counteroffensive untill Operation 'Crusader' (unless Soviet offensives are counted) and half of its divisions and brigades broke through enemy positions to Warsaw.
The province was ehnically cleansed in 1939-40 and locals were usually thrown away (15 minutes to pack) replaced with Germans from Russia and the Baltic States.
Guerilla activity was small due to a small number of forests, but many locals joined underground units in central Poland fighting for example in Warsaw Uprising.
Poznan itself experienced a couple of British and American air strikes targeting places such as a FW factory.
Greater Poland was liberated in 1945 with some episodes of fierce fighting in Poznan (like the fighting for the citadel) and became one of centres of opposition activity, namely from People's Party (or Peasants' Party) of the prime minister Mikołajczyk.
After rigged elections and subsequet end or legal opposition there were a couple of incidents including the Poznań's June 1956 where large protests against Soviet presence, repressions, in defence of religion and against terrible living conditions of still stalinist Poland were quelled by tanks.
In 1980s one of less influential centres of Solidarity movement.
Personal note - some friends from Poznań recall their battles with communist police and paramilitary forces, but one of most rememberd incidents apparently was a large and very surreal march 'in celebration of the October Revolution (1917)' where marching crowd worn red scarfs, took red flags, portraits of Lenin and Stalin and so on shouted pro-communist slogans.
It became so grotesque that communist icons could be used as a parady of official celebrations. ;)
Anyway this all means that it is a local tradition to vote and any true Greater Pole is supposed to vote responsibly. Or so they say.
Of course that is a simplification and despite some local semi-separatist arrogance the province isn't so much different than the rest of Poland, but even on the map above you will immediatelly recognise where the 'prussian Poland' ends - right in the Konin district.
There is even an old proverb - 'od Konina Azja się zaczyna' - 'Asia starts from Konin' as a reference to the fact that the borders with the Russian Empire was out there.
Politically the region was a stronghold of nationalist Endecja party before the war, though local brand of the organisation was mainly anti-German.
After 1989 nationalist party in a form of ultra-conservative populist League of Polish Families was reborn, but enjoyed limited popularity owing that fact to sensibility of the voters and a quick demise of anti-German attitudes.
Traditionally right-wing parties are strong in the province with post-communist and non communist left fractured after Democratic Left Alliance felt the consequences of the Rywin-gate and other corruption scandal. Local left wing parties were seriously weakened mainly because a larger part than in the rest of Poland left the SLD in a protest against Leszek Miller's inactivity against people allegedly involved in corruption scandals.
Local PiS (Law and Justice) destroyed itself after a series of intrigues, personal conflicts and inter-party purges.
The most grevious wounds were afflicted by the banishment of a respected Euro MP Mr. Libicki who left the party after he was accused (as we know without a justification) for cooperation with secret services during the days of communism. Of course as usual in this party he learnt about it from television.
Because locals often prefer their regional 'countrymen' against even popular politicians sent from Warsaw or other regions the conflict in PiS resulted in a massive hit to support giving the Civic Platform a massive advantage.
Currently Civic Platform dominates local politics with overwhelming support.
Poznań - regional capital - is ruled by local politicians who are associated with the Civic Platform.
The city is considered as developing too slowly for its potential, though in recent years it managed to win some investments becoming a notable banking center and together with Wrocław, Gdańsk and Warsaw it will host the Euro Cup in 2012 beating Kraków in the contest.
It is not visable on the map, but over 70% of votes in the city was grasped by Mr. Komorowski.
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...a-lubuskie.jpg
Red turning orange
==============
Lubuskie is another region which enjoyed very short relationship with Poland. A part of Poland to XIIIth century where the first described victory of the Polish military was scored (972 close to Cedynia) which is pretty much all what can be said about its time in Poland untill 1945.
From 1945 it becomes one of the 'Recovered Territories' which in communist mythology were rightfully Polish despite over 7 centuries as a part of Germany.
Local population was formed from people 're-settled' from eastern Poland - mainly Wilno (Vilnius) region and Volhynia in Ukraine. Over 45% of locals in 1946 were those people which means the voivodeship was literally east transported to the west.
Grandparents and parents of many local people were usually poor farmers or landowners deprived of property during and after the war who were for decades scared with visions of German revisionism so even in early 1990s support for post-communist left-wing parties was quite strong.
Of course fear of Germany passed quickly due to the proximity of the border and intense trans-border trade, and in no way it was the most important factor why political left received substantial and large support in the province.
I guess squabbling right-wing parties offered little incentive for voters preferring stability, plus structure of population in this relatively heavity forested voivodeship resuted in decent support for organisations protecting workers' rights.
From 2000 the situation is changing, most likely because dominating part of local economy now - small bussiness (including manufacture of some utilities e.g. aircraft seats produced in a town where I lived for many years) - is less interested in socialist sensitivity, especially with over a decade of largly failed government of left-wing parties.
Together with above avarage emigration it eroded the vote pool for the SLD and similar parties.
Local Law and Justice is weakened and getting weaker - its general unpopularity amongst young voters combined with a complete lack of anti-German phobia and rising education level must be added to a shortage of known and popular politicians from this party who came from the region.
That leaves the Civic Platform with stable and high support,
Interesting, but this former left-wing stronghold changed so much that strongly anti-communist christian democratic member of the Civic Platform - Stefan Niesiołowski received a very large share of votes in the general election in 2007.
Stefan Niesiołowski who in 1970 (so during Gierek's term) attempted to set the Lenin Museum in Poronin on fire.
Overall local politics are dull and dominated by traditional animosity between Zielona Góra and Gorzów Wielkopolski (in the north - a friend once described it as the biggest village in Poland).
Frankly I was even against its existence because during the administrative reform in the late 1990s it was supposed to be divided between three neighbouring provinces, but whatever. It is definetely one of weaker voivodeships in Poland, but now it seems it will survive and prosper in one way or another.
Silesia - today or tomorrow morning followed by PiS strongholds and provinces where votes were almost evenly distributed.
I wrote definetly too much about Greater Poland, but I like such details + I am living there, most of the time at least.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Boy what a month it was!
I am starting a new bussiness so I had barely any time to do anything + 35+ C degrees didn't make me too eager to write anything in the web, but here I am to finish the job.
It looks like that Law and Justice decided to 'defend the cross' under slogans such as this:
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...rzyamjastu.jpg
i.e. 'save the sity the closs' - two major spelling errors in three words...
I must admit I am sooo much loving it!
The Law and Justice dicided to side with most psychopatic supporters 'defending' a cross erected not by them against everybody including the Catholic Church.
Yesterday a couple of dozens of fanatics or should I say heretics (?) and a crowd of spectators and journalists manage to produce volumes of bad PR for their minders.
The death throes of this party are spectacular, but ensure their ultimate and final demise.
At the same time the insane leader of PiS Jarosław Kaczyński thrown away a mask of a 'changed man' and 'reasonable politician' siding with a wing in his party named as 'taliban' or 'hairy barbarians'.
To be frank he is one of them from the beginning, but some people were ready to forget and forgive after the disaster in April.
Some guys from political left went as far as to appeal to boycott the presidential elections 'because both rightist candidates are the same'.
I wish I could see their faces now when PiS looks like it finally decided to abandon all hope to win anything and uses all energy to wage war against everybody, so basically against Poland trying to 'avenge' the death of their president.
Weird guys with even stranger theories are given full attention of this political ( or shall I say psychotic?) force who knows where it leads - maybe here -
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...rach/stopa.jpg
Really, it is not much different from conspiracy theories about invisible helicopters and two airplanes - one supposedly shot down by Russians/Civic Platform with remnants carefully removed and another destroyed in a controlled environment and carefully placed in the Smolensk forest with some proofs planted to 'emulate' a disaster.
Any normal voter who happened to belive Mr. Kaczynski must now sigh with relief that his vote didn't put this man as a president of Poland.
In addition to this nonsense the cretins are demanding more and more, including a monument to celebrate their president (forget about 95 other people who died in the accident) - some proposals already appeared in the web:
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...oniatowski.jpg
translation - the President of the Millenium, brother of Jarosław Kaczyński, as well as prince Józef Poniatowski.
Poniatowski's monument is already there, but he definetely was no man compared to the His Magnificence Lech Kaczyński and his many political achievements (i.e. getting elected and dying).
The national mourning is definetely over, not a piece left. So much that a bunch of jokes are circulating including one describing the disaster as 'Kaczyńki's kamikaze attack against Smolensk forest'...
It is going to be a really good time for any PiS opponent - they party couldn't wait to decay and decided to jump into an abyss it was facing for last three-four years.
All right, enough with hatespeech even if Law and Justice managed to make it so sweet, a pity itis directed against them most of the time.
Currently it seems that while PiS goes insane and left wing parties are in disarray the Civic Platform should be able to implement some of reforms planned and vetoed by Lech Kaczyński.
PM Tusk estblished a group to review the vetoes and start legislvative process anew with health service reform as a priority. Public finance reform should follow, even if in some cases taxes will be rised - like the VAT rised by 1% in this week.
As an appendix to previous post have a look at that:
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b.../pkbunia-1.jpg
funds from the EU spent in each region in billions of zlotys (3 ZLOTY = more than 1 $, 1 Euro = c. 4 Zloty).
share in Poland's GNP of each regions:
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...m8196716-1.gif
size of infrastructure investments in each year - namely amount of roads under construction under each governmnet/party
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...h/budowa-1.png
Well, there are some obvious conclusions and some far from obvious.
Support for political parties has been always a rational thing for the majority - that is why left wing SLD managed to win the elections in 2001 promising professional governance despite their post-communist origin wining the same votes earlier grabbed by rigt-wing AWS.
In 2005 it was shared by PO and PiS which promised a coalition with a minor victory for PiS grabbed during much better prepared and led campaign where liberals suddenly became their primary target and stayed this way which resulted in a defeat in 2006, 2007, 2009 and in July this year.
Conclusion - the majority votes for stability or professionalism so other arguments can only work if circumstances are really exceptional.
Their is also a smaller group of voters who vote with their hearts, unfortunatelly mainly
supporting Law and Justice which perfected scaremongering and playing on every possible tool - traditions, religion, patriotism and above else - lies, lies and fear.
That is why it is not suprising a small crowd in the center of Warsaw can be led by former communist policeman and include a group of religious fanatics, former backbencher politicians and a couple of grandmas who yesterday tried to exorcise... catholic priests.
It is a great satisfaction that when visiting PiS supporter internet websites you can observe their panic - noone likes when their faces are 'professional nutcases' as it is described here. :laugh4:
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
and something slightly off-topic
statistic data about wealth of an avarage family in Poland
https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...ystyki2009.jpg
Interesting fact - number of TV sets is lower than in 1998.
I can confess I have no TV set - I sold it a couple of months ago because there is little interesting in TV and internet + DVDs is a better solution anyways.
I don't have a car too - parking space is costly in a large city and public communication is very good.
Interesting that a car and a TV set ceased to be something everyone seen as important in the past.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Interesting posts. Very insightful and humorous. I do have one question , however: Where do Polish people sleep? I see everything except a bed in the last picture.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vladimir
Interesting posts. Very insightful and humorous. I do have one question , however: Where do Polish people sleep? I see everything except a bed in the last picture.
Bed isn't considered a commodity you are supposed to include in a statistical review such as this. ;)
It is more about anything above most basic items - a bed, a wardrobe, a table, running water, gas, energy etc.
Or in other words things which were considered a luxury a dozen years ago.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cegorach
Bed isn't considered a commodity you are supposed to include in a statistical review such as this. ;)
It is more about anything above most basic items - a bed, a wardrobe, a table, running water, gas, energy etc.
Or in other words things which were considered a luxury a dozen years ago.
Understood. Hope I wasn't being offensive.
Mind you, in America beds can be worth more than plasma TVs!
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Thanks for the insightful post, Cego. It's good to see the phenomenal speed at which Polish consumption has become Westernised.
I understood every word in that picture! Good for my Polish.
Odd too, how things change.
Nowadays, they throw in a four meter plasma tv for free if you buy a Swedish bed.
I couldn't spend my money on consumer electronics if I wanted to. Everything is just a few tens of Euros. And even that I spend just because I get bored and want to buy stuff. I could happily live with just my cell phone and computer - I don't need anything else anymore. Why would I drag around a cumbersome camera when my phone makes great pics? Why use my hifi or tv anymore?
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
NEWS
The new president has been sworn in.
He started removing some roadblocks erected by the former one from day one signing a new legislation dealing with public media overran by PiS its populist allies ('deceased' now) during one night four years ago and occupied since then.
During this time the public media became a laughing stock and started generating losses for the first time since 1989!
No wonder because it became a haven for various losers, 'friendly' journalists from weird places and a massive propaganda tube.
The lowest point was supposedly the time when during 'a rebellion' former allies of Law and Justice took power and started supporting Libertas promoting it as a last chance to save political lives of some of the frindge populists.
It failed to take one seat in Poland and soon afterwards PiS formed an alliance with socialdemocratioc Left Democratic Alliance dividing the television and radio stations - TVP1 for PiS, TVP2 for SLD, the rest more or less shared.
The deal was seen as a humilation of the SLD and as a brainchild of Mr. Napieralski - its current leader - who attempts to remove liberal minded opposition in his party and admired the way Jarosąłw Kaczyński single-handedly controlls his party.
The idea was that the Civic Platform would be weakened so that the SLD would occupy some more significant place on political scene forcing the Tusk's party to make prequent deals with the left-wing opposition.
The idea and the strategy failed annoying many left-wing voters so recently the SLD again decided to find a common ground with the Civic Platform which was a bit easier after recent, unprecedented wave of propaganda the public media produced to support Jarosław Kaczyński.
Now it is over. Over and the cleaning process will start.
Mr. Tusk is generally not interested in taking the television - probably because he wo all last, four in row elections with the TV under his opponents' controll or because there is an unspoken rule that anybody who controlls the media is likely to lose following elections.
There is some truth in that because Poles in general tend to dislike lying media, so much that any real success is likely to be criticised for the sake of it if there are no real arguments to support criticism. That is why propaganda is even less popular.
In this case however there is a matter of the sheer volume of absurdities produced by employed propagandists of the nationalist-populist right. In recent weeks it started bordering spreading paranoia with nonsense conspiracy theories about 'shooting down' the presidential airplane on air in prime time.
It could appear in privately owned media any time, but not promoted in public tv financed by tax payers.
Of course the problem is the propagandists would have to sell their work to make a living and to sustain their propaganda tube this way - something which they are unable to do with several spectacular failures in the past.
One examle is a very popular, mass circulation newspaper from late Polish People's Republic called 'Express Wieczorny' (or similar) which like a large part of media empire under state's controll was provatised, with a number of titles handed over to former 'Solidarity' oposition.
There were examples of successful transition such as with 'Polityka' weekly, but in this case it was a huge failure.
The newspaper was under Kaczyńskis' controll which might explain its disaster, but there are several other, similar situations - nationalist right wasn't blessed with ability to create their own media support so they grasped the opportunity they've got in 2006.
Together with 'Rzeczpospolita' daily, 'Wprost' weekly and newly founded 'Dziennik' and mass circulation tabloid 'Fakt' public media, as well as less important, usually fringe newspapers, tv channels or radio channels it was suposed to win the Pis and its allies the support of the public in a plan to transform Poland into a new country.
Instead it resulted in dropping circulation, lower audience and one, big 'fu%$ you' directed at the PiS by voters.
Presently there is one influential media center definetely supporting the Civic Platform - mass circulation 'Gazeta Wyborcza' with a number neutral and quite friendly while PiS is losing all their bastions as it becomes less and less useful to support this party nowadays.
Personal - I've stopped watching TV in 2006 annoyed by stupidities they were trying to feed me with. From that time I've only seen a few hours of something every few weeks confirming my decision was wise.
Tabloidisation of the news and language is terryfying while poor knowledge journalists present becomes a problem.
Fortunatelly there are some positive facts which should help reversing some of those traits.
Maybe 'banishing' some of those 'journalists' from public medi will help - let they earn their money on their own!
In other news I hesistate, but I thik I can declare the Law and Justice as officially DEAD.
Its leader attacks virtually everybody and in recent days he managed to declare 90% of Poland his enemies - there are some psychological problems for sure. Good he is drowning his whole party with him. Very good.
How massive damage was made by this party to my country I am still thinking about it with disbelief.
Open abuse of law and the Constitution, attacks against everybody thinking different, divisions in the society which will last a while - between regions, between generations, between factions in the Catholic Church, disgusting politicisation of ALL historical anniversaries, aggressive language of insinuation, sectarian mentality implemented in a part of the society, huge damage to the media etc.
On the other hand it ws like a flu - rapid process where the heat was rising very quickly untill it exploded.
It should be much better now even with accidents of mass hysteria which are bound to happen because PiS is playing this last card in an insane pursuit after one or another conspiracy theory.
This should lead to their marginalisation with some place opening up for more responsible conservative opposition, especially after the elections in 2011 which will be the sixth defeat of this party (they've won twice in history).
First voltures already started gathering in recent days...
Presently governing party - Platforma Obywatelska (the Civic Platform) is the first party which is in power I am supporting so I sincerily hope it will win the re-elections, though with so incompetent opposition it might be a problem to feel to rule really efficently.
I am especially interested what will be the future of some of my most favourite politicians in the party - Radosław Sikorski (the minister of foreign affairs), Janusz Palikot (left leaning, controversial MP), Jarosław Gowin (conservative politician from Kraków), Joanna Mucha (moderate feminist activist), Bogdan Zdrojewski (popular politician from Wrocław) and of course Donald Tusk.
images:
They are among people I am willing to observe. I am especially hopeful for Mr. Sikorski who made a huge progress since he became a front line politician in 1990s as a very young person. Maybe a president in the future? Maybe a person in charge in the EU? Who knows.
Mr. Tusk as a mastermind of Polish politics at this moment will be responsible for much to happen in next years and if he doesn't fail he might become one of the best politicians in history of my country.
Great responsibility, but I dare say he has some qualities I respect a lot and expect from a leader.
As a patriot I believe this period of time might be quite beneficial and even if I am disgusted with the horrible abuses the Kaczynski's party is commiting one time after another I am certain now that one day they will be portraited as an anomaly and placed among most incompetent leaders in history of my country.
I am glad that it didn't go different otherwise I'd wake up one day in a quasi-Chavist/half-Putinite county where the insane, the corrupt and the incompetent are in controll.
RIP Law and Justice? Yep, but to make sure I'd place a stake in its heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Louis VI the Fat
Thanks for the insightful post, Cego. It's good to see the phenomenal speed at which Polish consumption has become Westernised.
I understood every word in that picture! Good for my Polish.
According to the same study it is similar to the one Czech Republic 20 years ago (structuraly), but Poland was c. 50 years behind Bohemiain development since the industrialisation in Austro-Hungary which concentrated in the area so it is also good news.
Quote:
Odd too, how things change.
Nowadays, they throw in a four meter plasma tv for free if you buy a Swedish bed.
I couldn't spend my money on consumer electronics if I wanted to. Everything is just a few tens of Euros. And even that I spend just because I get bored and want to buy stuff. I could happily live with just my cell phone and computer - I don't need anything else anymore. Why would I drag around a cumbersome camera when my phone makes great pics? Why use my hifi or tv anymore?
Yes, that is true
As I am getting old I found myself to be a minimalist in many ways - with the exce[tion of some activities which I won't mention as it is a private matter. ;)
Strange, but I actually also believe that living a life is much cheaper than it was before 1989 despite the fact that the state was supposedly to help - now it in general says 'sod off!' in my general direction and I am enjoing it's lack of enthusiasm to involve itself in my life.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Thanks for the fantastic posts mate, I haven't had time to read them all yet, but there is a lot of great information here.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
agreed with CA, fascinating talking to young and old people in poland right now with their respective urban and rural backgrounds, shows a significant divide that will only grow more pronounced as more poles return from working abroad.
-
Re: Presidential elections in Poland - thoughts and conclusions
Could you tell us more about their individual policies?
I will also like to say, I know very little about Polish politics, but after reading your posts, I am starting to feel like an expert. I think I will soon end up more informed about Polish politics than the British ones.
