Best archer units to have for AS?...also Thorakitai do seem some what vunerable

Hi guys,

After a break from EB for a while I'm slowly getting back into it playing AS.

This time round playing I've found out about using Alt-Click when using Heavy Cavalry... Bodyguard do seem to kill quicker with their swords.

So my question is which archer units do peeps recommend to recruit as AS?

Persian archer are cheap, have good range but seem fragile....

Caucasian Archers again decent range, very good attack power, but fragile....

Kretan Archers decent all rounders really...

Syrian Archers very good armour and defense against range attacks but 10 less ammo than Kretans....

So can the forum suggest which archers are best recruiting?

Also my Thorakitai do seem to die quickly when in combat... even against rebel persian archers... could I be using them wrong? They do seem resistant to archer fire however :-)

Edit: Heavy persian archers worth getting?

Syrians are rubbish archers although they do absorb arrows..... If you can get the Bosphoran heavy archers do so because they are still good archers while able to take a great deal of punishment. I would recomend getting kretans in the west and Bosphorans in the east (although getting them there is fairly tricky). If you cant be bothered with Bosphorans just get lots of steppe archers (for range) and some eastern slingers (To deal with armoured HA's). Also The persian archer-spearmen are pretty good as eastern garrison troop because they are common, cheap, decent archers and can kill cav in melee.

Persian Heavy archers are good archers for missile duels(low end of the heavy archers). Caucasian archers are good cheap archers and so are the Saka/Subeshi/Persian ones. I never liked Arcehr-Spearmen but I imagine that they are decent too.

Those Persian Archer-Spearmen are probably my favorite unit out that way. I always make heavy use of them against horse archers. Just about all the archers in the east are really good. Persian archers seem like the most common variant, so I always seem to use those the most, but I think Caucasian archers are slightly better, in my experience. For all I know though, they could have the exact same stats.

I guess statwise, the caucasians do have the highest attack

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

I guess statwise, the caucasians do have the highest attack

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Yeah, though their lack of armour makes them easy targets against heavy archers, like Cretans or Bosphorans.

The thing about heavy persian archers is that they're still terrible in melee (unlike bosphorans). Their armor really only helps them out in archer duels because their terrible sidearm hinders them so much in melee. Generally, since you can't put the heavy persians in melee anyways, I just prefer Caucasians, the various steppe archers, or, for versatility, Persian-Archer Spearmen because their spear makes them useful against cavalry.

Bosphorans are always great, but their AOR is just so small...

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Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

The thing about heavy persian archers is that they're still terrible in melee (unlike bosphorans). Their armor really only helps them out in archer duels because their terrible sidearm hinders them so much in melee. Generally, since you can't put the heavy persians in melee anyways, I just prefer Caucasians, the various steppe archers, or, for versatility, Persian-Archer Spearmen because their spear makes them useful against cavalry.

Bosphorans are always great, but their AOR is just so small...

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here's a small trick, put lowest tax rate here, and export pantodapoi there to be disbanded and traded with Thureopherantes Toxotai, setting such trip that pump out them almost every turns will take the trick, especially when you got insane riches from conquering All Mikhra Asia (but that trick was better spent on Galatian Nudists, in my opinion)

i know you asked about archers , but the Rhodian Slingers might be a good option if you have them . I find them very useful in sniping enemy family members .

For archers , yeah , you are stuck with Kretikoi and Bosphoran . Better yet are those horse archers , i find them godly in combination with catas and phalanxes. They provide much needed mobility , fire support and great chase potential at incredibly cheap price (esp those sarmatian ones as mercs)

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Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

The thing about heavy persian archers is that they're still terrible in melee (unlike bosphorans). Their armor really only helps them out in archer duels because their terrible sidearm hinders them so much in melee.

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Well their lethality is still 0.1, so it is at least a sword. And they have a range of 198m, which is better than standard Persian archers and far more than the Bosphorans sport.
This also means they out-range all HAs except Saka riders (tied), Yuezhi HAs (same IIRC), Saka Early Bodyguard, Saka Early Nobles, and Yuezhi Nobles.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

here's a small trick, put lowest tax rate here, and export pantodapoi there to be disbanded and traded with Thureopherantes Toxotai, setting such trip that pump out them almost every turns will take the trick, especially when you got insane riches from conquering All Mikhra Asia (but that trick was better spent on Galatian Nudists, in my opinion)

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Not a bad idea, I've done that before to provide enough population to get other AOR restricted units. Still, you do have to transport them quite a way.

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Originally Posted by athanaric

Well their lethality is still 0.1, so it is at least a sword. And they have a range of 198m, which is better than standard Persian archers and far more than the Bosphorans sport.
This also means they out-range all HAs except Saka riders (tied), Yuezhi HAs (same IIRC), Saka Early Bodyguard, Saka Early Nobles, and Yuezhi Nobles.

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I mean, they are good archers, I was more just letting him know that you can't expect them to be all-purpose wall holding troops like you can with Bosphorans.

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Originally Posted by Conan

Hi guys,

After a break from EB for a while I'm slowly getting back into it playing AS.

This time round playing I've found out about using Alt-Click when using Heavy Cavalry... Bodyguard do seem to kill quicker with their swords.

So my question is which archer units do peeps recommend to recruit as AS?

Persian archer are cheap, have good range but seem fragile....

Caucasian Archers again decent range, very good attack power, but fragile....

Kretan Archers decent all rounders really...

Syrian Archers very good armour and defense against range attacks but 10 less ammo than Kretans....

So can the forum suggest which archers are best recruiting?

Also my Thorakitai do seem to die quickly when in combat... even against rebel persian archers... could I be using them wrong? They do seem resistant to archer fire however :-)

Edit: Heavy persian archers worth getting?

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I generally go for the ones which are easiest to get to the front lines. Of course it depends on who you are fighting which ones are probably best. Out east and north the archer/spearmen are incredibly useful. Persian archers are generally rubbish at staying alive, but on the plus side their attack is just fine, they have a large AOR and will save the lives of more valuable troops by standing in losoe formation in front of the rest of your amy. They are therefore dependable fodder. Syrians are also pretty good in this role while your empire is still relatively small.

I cant see the point of using any troop that takes more than 18 months to get from purchase point to the front lines. Unless they are unique and truly irreplaceable. And to be honest for essential units like archers I would prefer not to go beyond 9 months travel time. Every turn the Cretans or Bosphorans are travelling they are costing you money and not doing anything useful. How many units of Persians could you have trained and used in that time for that cost?

What difficulty where you playing at for the Thorakitai to suffer so? They are one of those units that should fight as much as possible in guard mode IMO. But again, they are relatively cheap and a reasonable AOR. Let them die, its their job.

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Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

Not a bad idea, I've done that before to provide enough population to get other AOR restricted units. Still, you do have to transport them quite a way.

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That's why I advise using that for pumping out Galatian Nudists instead of Thureopherantes Toxotai, the Pontos Euxinos sea means you must spent at least 500 minai per turn on those Kerkuroi Fleet you use to transport the Panda

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

That's why I advise using that for pumping out Galatian Nudists instead of Thureopherantes Toxotai, the Pontos Euxinos sea means you must spent at least 500 minai per turn on those Kerkuroi Fleet you use to transport the Panda

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Yeah that's not really worth it unless you have the extra cash lying around

My sole mercenary Kretan archer just had 488 kills vs Carthage. Overpowered if you ask me.

I never use Kretans in melee though unless I was absolutely forced so the retraining argument wouldn't affect me. Persian archer-spearman are dirt cheap with a huge AOR. That and their versatility is what makes em great if I'm playing Eastern faction.

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Originally Posted by Claudius

My sole mercenary Kretan archer just had 488 kills vs Carthage. Overpowered if you ask me.

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Not pretty much OP if you are play on HUGE :grin: any superrior archer units should got insane ammount of killing, especially against those numidian skirmishers and assorted bunch of low armoured mercs the carthage often thrown at...

They weren't unarmored. It was merc Phalax and a crap load libyan speamen (forget which kind but they had a decent armor value like 10 or something).

The AI's fault probably but Kretan's rack up kills like crazy. Factor in their price and overkill melee ability probably the best unit value wise in the game.